Alright....so the freshened up heads are now back on my 360 block, next step is to check the pushrod lengths.

I am using 1.5 ratio roller rocker arms now, great pieces, no complaints. But, I do have the 1.6 ratio Crane ductile iron ones and truth be told I've been itching to try them out.

So here are some pics of the rocker arm "nose" to valve-tip alignment scenarios. I'm looking for feedback regarding what is considered to be the best/recommended choice. Since I used rocker arm shaft shims here that will impact the pushrod length, so I want to get this right.

Here we go:

1) the current roller rockers, the actual roll contact pattern itself is literally perfect, dead smack in the middle of the valve-tip


2) same as above but with the use of a valve-stem cap, just for comparison pursposes, I do not use them today but given the move to non-rocker arms I'm considering their use


3) 1.6 ratio arms with no shim


4) 1.6 ratio rockers with no shim and with cap


5) 1.6 ratio arms with 0.040" shim


6) 1.6 ratio rockers with 0.040" shim and cap


I have the 0.020" shims as well, but I think the 0.040" is the most I would need. To me it looks like the 0.040" stuff gives the best alignment.

The non-roller rocker will swipe across the valve-stem and therefore I'm looking to start slightly off-center and finish slightly off-center. But heck, tell me if I'm wrong here...

Thanks!

Ill say the roller rockers while the roller is centered will have horrible geometry, you would need over and inch of lift to have it need the shaft that low. THe other rocker will be ok as long as you start with the contact near the intake like the first pic.

As long as you got .060 clearance between the retainer & rocker arm, and the rocker pad/roller edges don't go over the edge of the valve, your good to go my friend.

those are valve closed pics. I would post the same choices/options at full lift to see the sweep across the valve stem tip

Oh believe me, I would love to do that...but these pics were taken with the head sitting on my bench, before I tossed it back on the short-block, which is in the car...LOL...so, no way can I get that good of a pic with the stuff assembled, just no room to place my DSLR camera in there...grrhh...

Replace one spring with a checking spring and then you can run the valve thru its motion with just your hand. Then you'll be able to see what the contact patch looks like. If you color the end of the valve with a felt marker then you can see the contact patch and measure it.

Pull a couple of springs and put test springs on
(get a couple of springs from the hardware store)

what about a light spring (I'm assuming it ain't running yet) opened to gross lift dimention & just a visual on your choices & see which one gives the least sweep area/closest to center (or just turn the dampener as is if the long block is all together) to max lift

Just one thing to keep in mind when you shim the rocker shaft. The rocker stands that are cast into the heads are machined for the size of the shaft. when you put that .40 shim in there it increases the shaft diameter to a larger size and puts stress on the outer tops of the rocker stands. This sometimes splits the stands giving shim the room it needs and also scraping the head.

There are shims made that tapper to zero on the
sides

literally perfect, dead smack in the middle of the valve-tip

It's of relatively little importance.
How wide the contact is, and when it changes direction are far more important.

Do yourself a favor and call B3 racing engines. Go to his web site and look at his tech pages. There is much more to geometry than roller position.

That's my opinion, too.

I'm not an expert by any means but I can't imagine you would run a lash cap and a shim as pictured. If you can think of a reason to need both, you probably have the wrong parts and need to regroup.

On another note, there is way more to valve train geometry than just where the rocker tip is sitting in relation to the valve tip in one given position. If you want to be educated on it and lose alot of sleep while pondering all the variables, call Mike at B3 Racing. He's a wealth of knowledge.

FWIW, I don't recommend roller rockers if you don't absolutely need to use them.

Trent,
You're not still losing sleep over rocker geometry I hope.

Not to get off topic, but I hope the family is well, and I'll bet that baby girl is growing like a weed. Ok, back to the topic.

Guys!

Thanks for all the responses. Yes, the geometry question is a fairly complex issue. Of all the articles, books, materials I have read on this subject my favourite one has got to be the one I've attached to this post.

I also agree that simplyfing it by only looking at the rocker arm to valve tip alignmnet is merely addressing part of the issue. However...for my build I am really not going to change much else...so if the center of the shaft is off in relation to the valve stem tip (horizontally speaking) and the full sweep of the rocker arm nose does not make a perfect arc. with a great 90 deg. at half-lift...well, so be it, because correcting this would require more extensive work/re-work that is simply not in my budget for these parts.

What I can control however is the alignment, and it's really by means of either using the shims (Hughes Engines) or the valve stem cap.

I have never ran caps in the past, but for a non-roller rocker they do certainly increase the area where the sweep contact is made, which means the pressure is distributed better and the valve tip itself does not take the "beating" otherwise. The opposite is true (even more so due to the materials) for the rocker arm itself...

Great ideas, I will probably pull the springs on 1 cylinder and try to do the full-sweep pattern check with just a checking spring. I had actually done this a few months back before I pulled the heads, this is what the pattern looked like with no use of the shims or caps:





The sweep mark was too far to the rocker nose-tip for my liking, so by elevating the rocker (shaft shims) I was driving towards a more centered mark on the rocker nose. The valve stem tips on the other hand were a little too far towards exhaust, which seemed to have matched what I was seeing on the rocker nose itself.

I'd wouldn't use checker springs imo.. check with the springs you'll be using. Also, it doesn't really matter if the rocker pad/roller is centered on the valve.
Short sweep is what yah want, & the edge of the roller or pad do not go over the edge of the valve stem.

Also, wouldn't longer P-rods help shorten the sweep?

x2.
It would not be acceptible to me. What was done to the heads?