Re: FiTech 2x4 go EFI vs 2x4 Edelbrock's
[Re: lockjaw-express]
#2090576
06/12/16 12:29 PM
06/12/16 12:29 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,942 Metro Detroit
OUTLAWD
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,942
Metro Detroit
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I guess I am happy with the FITech, but this is an instance where you get what you pay for...There is a complete lack of documentation, and no information on the tuning software. For some reason mine did not include the drivers to connect the handheld to my PC, and they haven't been able to send this to me after 2 months of back and forth.
The handheld unit has a 3x3 matrix. It does interpoltae between the 3x3, but one thing I don't like is the breakpoints are 45, 95, 180kPa MAP. So for a NA engine, you have only a 2x3, plus an "idle" point
I had read somewhere that in the PC software you could modify the base fuel/spark tables which were supposedly 10x12. I have found the breakpoint definition arrays for spark and VE, however, I have not been able to find the Spark and VE tables that correspond with theses breakpoints. They have 4 different cam settings, each with its own ~9x9 VE mult surf. Once I drove around and collected some data, I started modifying the VE mult surf by the long term fuel adaptation to get the base surface closer. I am +/- 5% fuel trims now, where previously it was correcting up to 30%.
I think they system is plenty capable for a basic TBI retrofit, but it sounds like they offer no advanced tuning support. I think the intended market is essentially they guy who bolts on the box stock carb, is too lazy to get it tuned correctly, gives up and thinks EFI will solve all his problems.
Another complaint/comment, is the data logging. it has pre-loaded data log windows, and you can only record the 20-30 channels in that window at any time, you cannot record everything at once.
Faster, Faster until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death...
71 Swinger - slowly collecting dust/parts 66 Belv. II - just a streetcar 88 Mustang - turbo LS beater
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Re: FiTech 2x4 go EFI vs 2x4 Edelbrock's
[Re: 451Mopar]
#2091041
06/13/16 03:06 AM
06/13/16 03:06 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890 North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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Well, after all of the great information, I just finished running my return line to the fuel cell, and decided on the Holley Dominator ECU kit with dual O2 sensor support.
Holley made a good argument for having a dual O2 system, and MPFI.
I will just sell the FiTech FCC on ebay...wont lose any money as they are on back order from Fitech.
Ray Barton also told me that the Holley MPFI was far superior that anything he has installed.
Thanks, Mark
Sounds like the way to go with such a radical engine. I haven't got my FiTech, they are on back order, but it is for a much milder engine. I think large cams with a lot of overlap and intake reversion can upset the MAP sensor, and the software needs to be pretty advanced to handle that (for speed/density), or just use Alpha-N fueling? I'm not sure the FiTech software does Alpha-N? There is absolutely no reason to NOT run speed density. That's what I use on virtually everything. The Corvette Drag Week car from Canada has an 875" 5.3 bore space motor, that makes nearly 1700hp on nuts. It is speed density, coil on plug and even has drive by wire throttle bodies
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Re: FiTech 2x4 go EFI vs 2x4 Edelbrock's
[Re: lockjaw-express]
#2091242
06/13/16 03:23 PM
06/13/16 03:23 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890 North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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On ANY race car and most hot street cars.......Yes, I use the Dominator ECU and NTK sensors. I think you need on O2 on each bank. I even have a Dominator on my boat. The only vehicles I use one O2 on are turbo applications and some milder combos I consider daily drivers. I have HP ECUs on my jeep and my tow truck. But I ALWAYS opt for the NTK sensor.
We(Holley) realize that many want a second O2 option, but don't need all the extra inputs and outputs the Dominator gives. Along those lines, we are working on an "add on" that will allow a second O2 on an HP based system. But I don't know where that stands at the moment
Last edited by Monte_Smith; 06/13/16 03:27 PM.
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Re: FiTech 2x4 go EFI vs 2x4 Edelbrock's
[Re: lockjaw-express]
#2092811
06/16/16 01:36 AM
06/16/16 01:36 AM
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 562 Ohio
lockjaw-express
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 562
Ohio
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Monte...well I talked with Jegs Tech support and he told me that 4 out of 10 Holley efi items that they sell comes back due to poor satisfaction. He also told me that the Billet throttle body is much better because of better throttle plate/shaft tolerances, and the cast ones come back with broken ears and are loose.
I was trying to get information on the new Holley EFI programmer/dash unit, because the 5.7" display unit is $716.00 and the new unit is $799.00 and has a bigger screen.
Since I do not have a laptop, I was interested in the programmer with the most features.
Any advice on your end?
Thank you, Mark
Last edited by lockjaw-express; 06/16/16 03:23 AM.
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Re: FiTech 2x4 go EFI vs 2x4 Edelbrock's
[Re: lockjaw-express]
#2093077
06/16/16 05:20 PM
06/16/16 05:20 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Monte...well I talked with Jegs Tech support and he told me that 4 out of 10 Holley efi items that they sell comes back due to poor satisfaction. He also told me that the Billet throttle body is much better because of better throttle plate/shaft tolerances, and the cast ones come back with broken ears and are loose.
I was trying to get information on the new Holley EFI programmer/dash unit, because the 5.7" display unit is $716.00 and the new unit is $799.00 and has a bigger screen.
Since I do not have a laptop, I was interested in the programmer with the most features.
Any advice on your end?
Thank you, Mark
That guy at Jegs is FULL OF IT... I have the Holley Dominator and love it... bolt it on and set the program in your computer in your case you will have to take the whole computer out to the shop.. program it and use the computer to monitor it in the shop... they did forget 1 small plug but when I talked to the Holley tech he said what I was missing and sent it right out and I had it fired up on the second day...then let it learn.. its been running great and it does have a ton of power... its quicker than my carb set up on the revs EDIT I bought mine through Monte.. he saved me a pile full of money just on the hand held read out that I thought I had to have... he said the lap top is all he uses.. so thats all I use on mine.... and for the price of lap tops its worth the price to get a lap top... JMO
Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 06/16/16 05:28 PM.
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Re: FiTech 2x4 go EFI vs 2x4 Edelbrock's
[Re: lockjaw-express]
#2093134
06/16/16 07:23 PM
06/16/16 07:23 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890 North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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I prefer 1:1 even on a street car and here is why..........FIRST, this is not a carb. Progressive linkage on a carb, is usually to keep the car from stumbling when you snap all that air blade open and the carb can't deliver the fuel fast enough. That won't happen with EFI. If I have 4 blades, I want them all working in unison to provide an equal flow of air to the plenum. The rest is just in the tune.
Remember, the throttle body is just strictly an air valve. It does NOTHING else. I want the flow even through it, not half of it, until I decide to stand on it.
Last edited by Monte_Smith; 06/16/16 07:25 PM.
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Re: FiTech 2x4 go EFI vs 2x4 Edelbrock's
[Re: lockjaw-express]
#2093142
06/16/16 07:34 PM
06/16/16 07:34 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890 North Alabama
Monte_Smith
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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Hi Mike,
Holley makes one like that in 4150, and one 4150 that is a "race" billet, but the Holley site does not tell you what the differences are.
Is yours 1:1 or progressive?
BR, Mark Yes it does tell you the difference. The standard throttle body has progressive linkage and the levers for a Ford kickdown and that type stuff. The RACE throttle body flows exactly the same, but has an external linkage that is adjustable for either 1;1 or progressive. These are both cast and is the same throttle body housing and design used in NASCAR. The billet throttle body is self explanatory....it's Billet. The billet is of no benefit, unless you just WANT billet. My choice would be the "Race" throttle body, because of the linkage
Last edited by Monte_Smith; 06/16/16 07:38 PM.
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Re: FiTech 2x4 go EFI vs 2x4 Edelbrock's
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#2093218
06/16/16 10:49 PM
06/16/16 10:49 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,397 Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,397
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
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Hopefully nobody. Not sure why anyone would want such a thing.
Several companies, us included make one with a plate under the TB with regular injectors, but can't see the need for true TBI with 4500 size air flow So a 4150 rated for 1200hp is ok, but us guys that want the same thing without an adapter in a 4500 is not...Logically, your argument makes no sense...I can't understand why you wouldn't.
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