Re: stretch method for molnar/arp2000
[Re: mopar dave]
#2066183
05/02/16 10:22 PM
05/02/16 10:22 PM
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crabman173
Unregistered
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crabman173
Unregistered
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I have to say---- Most engine shops in the world finally get a rod bolt stretch gauge--they use it a few months then it goes in the bottom drawer and never comes back out--Unless you build Indy 500 or Nascar units all you have to do is lube the bolt threads and under the bolt head and use any old tq wrench you can lay your hands on and it will work out fine --you will never have a rod bolt failure from doing it this way--Folks do some crazy stuff and spend some crazy $$ so they can sleep at night thinking that nothing bad will ever happen--they get there butts beat at the drag strip by guys that know that a Sears or Lowes TQ wrench when used with proper lube and proper technique will get that bolt in the zone of WORKING to do its job---GEEEZ! It ain't that hard to do this--The whole entire deal of buying ASP 2000 Bolts speaks to my point!!!!!!! Those darn bolts could hold the hinge on a door with a frigging Volcano behind it!! SO CAN A PLAIN OLD 8740 bolt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ok if you run 70 lbs boost ya may need some extra care but if you are NA and a rod bolt fails YOU did something wrong!!! I run Scat $300 I Beams with a 1.400 8740 bolt torqued to 63 ft lbs using ANY wrench I can lay my hands on and it turns over 8800 RPM every week end we take it out-- and I drive it like I could care less if she goes Boom! 9000 in the water is just part of the show gang!Guess what-- she don't go Boom! I DO NOT need ARP2000 bolts and neither do you in 99% of cases If you are in a class--and want to make an A then answer is stretch gauge and proper lube--and if you want a doctorate degree the torque angle is the path to that grade but...if you race and just want to build an engine so you can do what you really want to do --as in LAY THE WOOD TO IT and WIN!! Then....lube it right and use any wrench using a SMOOTH PULL and there ya have it I had test equipment and went from shop to shop testing torque wrenches and adjusting them--great living doing not MUCH--turns out that the WAY A GUY used the wrench made more difference than the wrench--get them snug then give one long pull to the click--you are done move on!! JERK it like the idiots in NHRA pits and you are not accurate but..Guess what??? IT will run 300 plus MPH anyway and never fail I have NEVER had a rod bolt fail--ever! The only ones that have come in my shop that failed were stock bolts with a 1300 gram TRW slug on a stock rod that was turned past 6500 a LOT so....... You guys worry about things that do not matter and get beat by guys that could care less Whew! Ok I am done....
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Re: stretch method for molnar/arp2000
[Re: ]
#2066309
05/03/16 01:16 AM
05/03/16 01:16 AM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,220 West Plains, MO
DrCharles
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,220
West Plains, MO
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I run Scat $300 I Beams with a 1.400 8740 bolt torqued to 63 ft lbs using ANY wrench I can lay my hands on and it turns over 8800 RPM
What do your pistons weigh? every week end we take it out-- and I drive it like I could care less if she goes Boom! You may not care, but some of us do! I want to build an expensive engine just once and not have it trashed and have to start all over, because a rod bolt let go and it went Boom... JERK it like the idiots in NHRA pits and you are not accurate but..Guess what??? IT will run 300 plus MPH anyway and never fail On the other hand, it only has to last under four seconds and 1000' (once) in that application... I have NEVER had a rod bolt fail--ever! The only ones that have come in my shop that failed were stock bolts with a 1300 gram TRW slug on a stock rod that was turned past 6500 a LOT so....... That's reassuring, anyway. Thanks for the input
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Re: stretch method for molnar/arp2000
[Re: ]
#2066318
05/03/16 01:32 AM
05/03/16 01:32 AM
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 42 Wedge Land
MBigBlock
member
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member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 42
Wedge Land
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I have to say---- Most engine shops in the world finally get a rod bolt stretch gauge--they use it a few months then it goes in the bottom drawer and never comes back out--Unless you build Indy 500 or Nascar units all you have to do is lube the bolt threads and under the bolt head and use any old tq wrench you can lay your hands on and it will work out fine --you will never have a rod bolt failure from doing it this way--Folks do some crazy stuff and spend some crazy $$ so they can sleep at night thinking that nothing bad will ever happen--they get there butts beat at the drag strip by guys that know that a Sears or Lowes TQ wrench when used with proper lube and proper technique will get that bolt in the zone of WORKING to do its job---GEEEZ! It ain't that hard to do this--The whole entire deal of buying ASP 2000 Bolts speaks to my point!!!!!!! Those darn bolts could hold the hinge on a door with a frigging Volcano behind it!! SO CAN A PLAIN OLD 8740 bolt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ok if you run 70 lbs boost ya may need some extra care but if you are NA and a rod bolt fails YOU did something wrong!!! I run Scat $300 I Beams with a 1.400 8740 bolt torqued to 63 ft lbs using ANY wrench I can lay my hands on and it turns over 8800 RPM every week end we take it out-- and I drive it like I could care less if she goes Boom! 9000 in the water is just part of the show gang!Guess what-- she don't go Boom! I DO NOT need ARP2000 bolts and neither do you in 99% of cases If you are in a class--and want to make an A then answer is stretch gauge and proper lube--and if you want a doctorate degree the torque angle is the path to that grade but...if you race and just want to build an engine so you can do what you really want to do --as in LAY THE WOOD TO IT and WIN!! Then....lube it right and use any wrench using a SMOOTH PULL and there ya have it I had test equipment and went from shop to shop testing torque wrenches and adjusting them--great living doing not MUCH--turns out that the WAY A GUY used the wrench made more difference than the wrench--get them snug then give one long pull to the click--you are done move on!! JERK it like the idiots in NHRA pits and you are not accurate but..Guess what??? IT will run 300 plus MPH anyway and never fail I have NEVER had a rod bolt fail--ever! The only ones that have come in my shop that failed were stock bolts with a 1300 gram TRW slug on a stock rod that was turned past 6500 a LOT so....... You guys worry about things that do not matter and get beat by guys that could care less Whew! Ok I am done.... I like your style The rod is going to break or a bearing spin because of bad oiling setup before any ARP rod bolt breaks because it wasn't torqued to 0.00001 of proper stretch.. infact I bet many overstretch em.. better to torque to 60-65 ft/lbs, 20/40/60 and be done! At that spec, the bolt aint coming loose and you know you won't egg your rods OR fatigue your bolts!
Last edited by MBigBlock; 05/03/16 01:34 AM.
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Re: stretch method for molnar/arp2000
[Re: mopar dave]
#2066415
05/03/16 10:37 AM
05/03/16 10:37 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,402 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,402
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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FWIW...my 572 hemi has Oliver rods, but I've always used the torque angle method to torque them. I built it in 2006 and have freshened it up twice since then. Bottom end just got rings and bearings both times...the bearings could have been reused. Regularly running over 7k rpm, over 800 hp on motor, about 1100 hp on nitrous.
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: stretch method for molnar/arp2000
[Re: Porter67]
#2066451
05/03/16 11:49 AM
05/03/16 11:49 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,202 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,202
PA.
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I swear some of these companies do this just to mess with your minds. For years we torque rod bolts to a specific number with good results. Then we are told to buy stretch gauges and stretch the bolt to a specific length. Now we are told to go to a specific torque then go X amount of degrees. This to me is the stupidest of all and its being proven by other that the bolts are coming up with different results. I think the problem lies with the JUNK we are now being sold and THEIR quality control. Come-on guys lets get it right. A certain length, diameter, and material bolt should stretch X amount at a given torque.
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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