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Re: EFI for stock 440 ???? [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #2040584
03/28/16 06:45 PM
03/28/16 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted By DaytonaTurbo
I think the OP has to ask himself if he thinks the benefits outweigh the additional cost and complexity of the EFI system. The altitude and temperature correction of the TBI is nice, but that's not going to be any kind of return on investment for the application it sounds like this car is going to be used in.



The benefits are not measured by fuel savings. They include the hassle free driving and constant self tuning functions. Improved drivability makes itself notable by a driver who pays attention to his engine.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: EFI for stock 440 ???? [Re: 451Mopar] #2040585
03/28/16 06:46 PM
03/28/16 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted By 451Mopar

The remote sump as shown earlier in this thread is a decent solution if you have the under hood space.



That remote sump can be mounted anywhere in the vehicle but it is too tall to hang under a frame rail of a car.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: EFI for stock 440 ???? [Re: GRAYBO] #2040600
03/28/16 07:27 PM
03/28/16 07:27 PM
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Feets is pretty much bang on with what he said. And for me, EFI all the way. My next 340 will be procharger, MPFI & Coil packs. My procharger in my 00 4.8L Silverado with a 100% stock engine running 6.5lbs makes 369 whp. Could never do the same with a old-school carb & stock(ish) 283 for example.


When it takes more than a sweet mullet to prove you rule at the trailer park..
Re: EFI for stock 440 ???? [Re: DARTH V8Я] #2040618
03/28/16 07:53 PM
03/28/16 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted By Ice~Eagle
Feets is pretty much bang on with what he said. And for me, EFI all the way. My next 340 will be procharger, MPFI & Coil packs. My procharger in my 00 4.8L Silverado with a 100% stock engine running 6.5lbs makes 369 whp. Could never do the same with a old-school carb & stock(ish) 283 for example.


I made more than 369 whp with 8 psi blowing through an old school carburetor. You can do that.

However, the engine and I were both FAR happier with EFI.


BTW, the FITech throttle bodies can easily handle a common blow through setup on a 340.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: EFI for stock 440 ???? [Re: feets] #2040623
03/28/16 08:00 PM
03/28/16 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted By feets
BTW, the FITech throttle bodies can easily handle a common blow through setup on a 340.

I'll have to keep this in mind. Good info. thumbs


When it takes more than a sweet mullet to prove you rule at the trailer park..
Re: EFI for stock 440 ???? [Re: GRAYBO] #2040634
03/28/16 08:14 PM
03/28/16 08:14 PM
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Even TBI can be told to shut off the fuel when coasting or engine brakeing, that will help fuel miledge also because a carb tends to get real rich in those conditions and that is why NASCAR used to see flames spewing from the exhaust on decell, if there was a way to stop it those guys would have figured it out. Now with EFI they are not wasting all that fuel when they are off the gas.


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: EFI for stock 440 ???? [Re: HotRodDave] #2040701
03/28/16 09:31 PM
03/28/16 09:31 PM
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I'll add to what others have said. The benefit of EFI is adaptability to changing conditions. Going cross country, you are likely to see altitudes >7'000 ft as well as sea level. Hot and freezing. Sometimes 10% ethanol, sometimes straight gas and sometimes in between. EFI can handle it all and keep the engine happy.

I drove my EFI wedge from IL to CA and back in a week. Last day on the way out I fired up in Flagstaff (~7,700 ft) on the first freezing morning of the season and later the same day was driving along the Mexican border at 90 F and sea level. The car ran great all the way.

Also the fuel supply matters a lot... in tank pump with baffles or remote sump fed by a low pressure pump works great. In line high pressure pump alone does not work well.

Re: EFI for stock 440 ???? [Re: feets] #2041047
03/29/16 10:33 AM
03/29/16 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted By feets

The benefits are not measured by fuel savings. They include the hassle free driving and constant self tuning functions. Improved drivability makes itself notable by a driver who pays attention to his engine.


Again, I'm a big proponent of EFI systems, but for a car that's driven once a week and is getting ready for one cross country trip, this is not necessarily the best investment for the OP. For a daily driver, absolutely. For a car that's only started once or twice a week to go for a cruise or take the missus out for ice cream, I could take it or leave it. These old cars were driven in stock configuration as daily drivers for many, mnay years, surely an unmodified engine can handle a cross country trip.

Re: EFI for stock 440 ???? [Re: GRAYBO] #2041103
03/29/16 12:14 PM
03/29/16 12:14 PM
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Yes, carbed engines have run cross country for years. Before that, a horse and buggy were all you needed. However, man wanted something better.

In my case, I bought the car to make cross country drives so it's getting EFI.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: EFI for stock 440 ???? [Re: RSNOMO] #2041115
03/29/16 12:35 PM
03/29/16 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted By RS23U1G
Originally Posted By JohnRR


The biggest plus is the problems many run into with the crap gas that boils in the carb, eliminating that headache alone makes the change to a unit like this worth looking into .



The solution to 'percolation' is a helluva lot less costly than 3k for EFI...


A properly dialed-in fuel system is gonna make a 'Bird with a Carter make it cross-country no problem...


These cars in OEM config have withstood the test of time...

And on the road, if there's 'issues', I'd much rather have to deal with the factory fuel delivery system...


'Modern' EFI in a 'vintage' ride has zero appeal to me...

I want to hear, feel, and smell the 'vintage' experience...


And know it's the result of my tuning, not an onbored computer...


Been doing it for many years...

No issues...


Did you even look at anything before you started running off at the mouth like you always do? You have nothing to offer to this discussion, as usual....

Where is this $3000 system?

The gas of today is different than the gas of 40 years ago, it's not designed to be run in a vented to atmosphere, low pressure, fuel system.


running up my post count some more .
Re: EFI for stock 440 ???? [Re: JohnRR] #2041186
03/29/16 02:28 PM
03/29/16 02:28 PM
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^^^ not to mention summer and winter blends in some areas of the country. In my parts, everything also has a 10% ethanol mix. Thank you EFI lol.


When it takes more than a sweet mullet to prove you rule at the trailer park..
Re: EFI for stock 440 ???? [Re: JohnRR] #2041214
03/29/16 03:12 PM
03/29/16 03:12 PM
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Your redundant trashing of all things Mopar that you obviously cannot comprehend is always good for


Nothing...


Here lies another example...


Brought to you by 'if it doesn't work in my world, it obviously has no value'...


Look in the Jeg's catalog, genius...



'Fuel is different today'...

What a revelation...

Re: EFI for stock 440 ???? [Re: GRAYBO] #2041231
03/29/16 03:38 PM
03/29/16 03:38 PM
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Guys. Thanks for the information. I will be going with FI Tech and the fuel sump with my original pump. Just to clear up some reasons why I am:
1) Ethanol in the gas in my area Pittsburgh area is 10%.
2) Percolation (restarts after sitting make me look like I don't know how to time/tune a car)
3) Fuel mileage ( I drive the car if it is not raining or snowing.
4)Altitude and temp changes during my cross country trip.
5)Quicker throttle response
6)Just cause I want it!

Again thanks for all your suggestions, Very Helpful Boys! up

Re: EFI for stock 440 ???? [Re: RSNOMO] #2041234
03/29/16 03:43 PM
03/29/16 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted By RS23U1G

Look in the Jeg's catalog, genius...



Surprised even you can recognize fuel differences today...


You MAY be catching on...


Here's a 600 hp carb setup:

Holley 750 cfm 4150 is $740.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Holley/510/0-80528-1K/10002/-1?parentProductId=

Holley red pump is $117.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Holley/510/12-801-1/10002/-1

Holley tuning kit is $110.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Holley/510/36-182/10002/-1

Total is $967. Then, you spend all day jetting and making passes then jetting again to get it all dialed in. When the weather changes you do it all over again.


Here's a more common setup:

Holley 770 Street Avenger is $538.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Holley/510/0-83770K/10002/-1?parentProductId=1118144

Holley mechanical fuel pump is $131.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Holley/510/12-440-11/10002/-1

Holley tuning kit is $110.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Holley/510/36-182/10002/-1

Total is $779. Then, you spend all day jetting and making passes then jetting again to get it all dialed in (or just drive around in circles instead of making passes). When the weather changes you do it all over again.


FiTech 600 hp EFI system is $995.

http://www.jegs.com/i/FITech+Fuel+Injection/546/30001/10002/-1

FiTech Fuel Command is $395.

http://www.jegs.com/i/FITech+Fuel+Injection/546/40003/10002/-1

Total is $1390. You spend the afternoon installing it then go drive the car. It tunes itself. No more smelling like fuel and bending over a hot engine while trying to not scratch the fenders.

Another system is due out 4/1/16 that will run a 400 hp engine and save you $200.


Yes, carbs are cheaper but the prices are getting pretty close. The time spent tuning a carb turns into cruising down to the local watering hole.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: EFI for stock 440 ???? [Re: GRAYBO] #2041254
03/29/16 04:32 PM
03/29/16 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted By GRAYBO
Guys. Thanks for the information. I will be going with FI Tech and the fuel sump with my original pump. Just to clear up some reasons why I am:
1) Ethanol in the gas in my area Pittsburgh area is 10%.
2) Percolation (restarts after sitting make me look like I don't know how to time/tune a car)
3) Fuel mileage ( I drive the car if it is not raining or snowing.
4)Altitude and temp changes during my cross country trip.
5)Quicker throttle response
6)Just cause I want it!

Again thanks for all your suggestions, Very Helpful Boys! up


Good luck man! FWIW, before I changed my stuff to EFI, I found having a carb with an electric fuel pump mounted back by the tank solved 99% of my fuel issues, especially the fuel percolation/evaporation problems. Mine's a spring-fall daily driver, rain or shine so I went with the port EFI. Once you dive in, you'll love it!

Re: EFI for stock 440 ???? [Re: GRAYBO] #2041257
03/29/16 04:36 PM
03/29/16 04:36 PM
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Can't go wrong with EFI. No issues with a carb either, I doubt there will be any relative fuel savings on a long road trip. There have been some tests done with the Fitech and it actually utilizes more fuel than a carb..

I would say 99% of carbs run poorly because the owner doesn't install an AFR gauge, as it's stupidly easy to generally tune with one. A programmable ignition would solve nearly all the other problems most owners experience, which once again, only takes a few minutes to modify and upload to the ignition box. Fitech for sure if you want a plug and play setup, but lets be realistic, these systems are still a ways off from being perfect.

To some, it's just another complex electronic to fail with no support on the road. My carb (CSU 750 blow-through) cranks on the first turnover (faster than my 15' SRT!!!) and idles, within 5-10 seconds you can drive it. On factory timing however, it's a joke, it takes twenty seconds to crank @ 18-20* while at 30-32* it cranks instantly. Ignition box retards it right back to 18* and it cruises like stock after.


Last edited by Sweet5ltr; 03/29/16 05:33 PM.

1969 Plymouth Road Runner (440 w/ Boost! RIP) now a low-deck 470 with hotchkis suspension, nascar boom tube exhaust, & big brakes.
Re: EFI for stock 440 ???? [Re: GRAYBO] #2041299
03/29/16 05:43 PM
03/29/16 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted By GRAYBO
Guys. Thanks for the information. I will be going with FI Tech and the fuel sump with my original pump. Just to clear up some reasons why I am:
1) Ethanol in the gas in my area Pittsburgh area is 10%.
2) Percolation (restarts after sitting make me look like I don't know how to time/tune a car)
3) Fuel mileage ( I drive the car if it is not raining or snowing.
4)Altitude and temp changes during my cross country trip.
5)Quicker throttle response
6)Just cause I want it!

Again thanks for all your suggestions, Very Helpful Boys! up


Let us know how it goes. The only thing I would add is a phenolic spacer between the intake and throttle body to help keep heat away from the computer on the throttle body. I think these units use the fuel to help cool the computer, but I would still want to prevent heat soak of the computer after shutting off the engine.

Re: EFI for stock 440 ???? [Re: GRAYBO] #2041307
03/29/16 06:04 PM
03/29/16 06:04 PM
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Great discussion about this. I like the FiTech system. I just emailed them to see if it is compatible with E85.

Re: EFI for stock 440 ???? [Re: Sweet5ltr] #2041342
03/29/16 07:05 PM
03/29/16 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted By Sweet5ltr


To some, it's just another complex electronic to fail with no support on the road. My carb (CSU 750 blow-through) cranks on the first turnover (faster than my 15' SRT!!!) and idles, within 5-10 seconds you can drive it. On factory timing however, it's a joke, it takes twenty seconds to crank @ 18-20* while at 30-32* it cranks instantly. Ignition box retards it right back to 18* and it cruises like stock after.




You're fussing about complexity and still running a blow through carb?

I ditched the carb and built a port injection EFI intake for my TT440 more than 10 years ago.

It started on the first revolution of the motor in most cases. The drivability was MUCH better. Carbs can be made to work under boost but you're crutching it here or there. Go EFI and don't look back.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: EFI for stock 440 ???? [Re: roadrunninMark] #2041439
03/29/16 09:53 PM
03/29/16 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted By roadrunninMark
Great discussion about this. I like the FiTech system. I just emailed them to see if it is compatible with E85.


Let me know what they say. I have a FAST XFI 2.0 and it supports use of a flex-fuel sensor that tells the computer the amount of alcohol in the fuel.

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