I'm really close to pulling the trigger on a cross ram Hemi FiTech set-up. Eye candy for the street without the tuning. They have done thier homework on these- guess we'll see if it's true.

You want to buy a bargain basement price EFI system, to put on a motor, that will make possibly 1200hp in a "blow through" configuration and then try and bandaid it, with maybe some OTHER sources of fuel, smaller hat for hood clearance and a bunch of other stuff, that will end up costing you MORE and still not be the optimal setup. Just do it right the first time man.

The EFI was NOT 20K..........I said you would SPEND 20K with all you were wanting to do and that including rewiring the car from one end to the other, which it absolutely NEEDS. Combine EFI with a cobbled 40 year old factory harness and you are talking about more headaches than you will ever be able to get rid of.

My advice now, is the same as then. Do it RIGHT and go full bore port EFI system, or just use the blow through carb with the stuff you have now.

You are still thinking in "blow through" mode. You DON'T need a 4500 TB to do it the right way. You need a 4500 flange elbow that bolts on the intake, then a single blade TB on the elbow, with the port injection.

Monte: You are still thinking in "blow through" mode. You DON'T need a 4500 TB to do it the right way. You need a 4500 flange elbow that bolts on the intake, then a single blade TB on the elbow, with the port injection.

Me: I got that and have seen some nice 90* (or so) elbows out there that I am sure would clear the cowl hood. I agree that doing it right would be better. And a lot more tuning work. You spend $20K on the GTX you supposedly have lately?

Look, I don't minding spending some money on the car to make it nicer / upgrade and have been doing so, cause I like the car. But $20K to put in EFI just isn't in the cards. That is why that same day you told me I need to rewire my car and put $20K into it to get EFI, I bot a complete E85 based blow through carb system off a guy that I saw run that night. Problem is his low deck motor had a low intake on it. Mine is way too tall, but I need to keep it cause it fits the B1 heads that OBTW have too small chambers.

The mount plate that came with it, that won't work with my water pump system is a whole 'nother story.

I think one of these 4150 EFI units will work, at east I am going to try. They won't flow enough E85 at power levels over (1200 x .65 = 780). But E85 is not available within 10+ miles anyways.

Like I said, I was out mowing grass and drinking beer - the additional fuel flow through foggers idea just popped up. I have a lotta grass and time to think while riding around on it.

Been done many times before and works very well.

But in this case I'd have to say if you think it takes $20,000 for a decent EFI system you are mistaken. It does cost more than a decent forced induction carb but there there are none of the carb shortcomings either.

I have a "from scratch" (aftermarket ECU) port fuel injected V8 project coming up this winter, I don't expect to have more than $2000 when all is said in done.

Knowing where to source the parts and doing some of your own fabrication is a huge cost savings.

One last time..........THE EFI DOES NOT COST 20K.

You rattled off this big long list of "I want to do stuff" and I said that would cost you 20 grand to do that to your car. You got mad, because I said I would NOT just wire the EFI into your existing 40 year old factory harness, because it would be nothing but trouble and cause you headaches. So then you went and bought a bunch of stuff you really can't use, in an attempt to "save" money..........how is that working out?

You want just the EFI stuff...........The ECU is $1800 and the harness is $300.............there you go.

And NO, I haven't spent 20K on my GTX lately........but it is costing me about $4000 a month to care for my dad, on top of all my own stuff.............but what does any of that, have to do with what you are doing, other than you just making a wise azz comment.

These throttle body injection systems are for the Chip Foose and Boyd Coddington type cars. Start em up, go to a cruse and go home. As soon as you start making power there limited by the same problems a carb has. Poor fuel distribution, air fuel swings on gear changes, and less atomization.

Port EFI is what yall need.

example 1a.
85 mustang with a 4bbl.
86 mustang with the ho efi

No comparison

Yeah, stuff like weld on EFI nozzle bungs on the intake. You are the guy who pulled out a stock harness and told me how much crap was on it I wouldn't need. Look I like you Monte and just was asking about these little cheap EFIs, now that Holley is in the game. And I remember very well what you were going through that day.

That FiTech is $1500 and has a harness included. And I can put it on the 540 while the 499 gets built. The instructions are kinda weak though.

They say it will control NOS, so I wonder if it could turn on a fuel solenoid at a specific boost, or maybe RPM. Or could use a meth controller be used for that and have a meth stream too. And how fast is the AF correction loop?

You're a Holley guy. Maybe you should figure out how to make their new product compete with and beat the competition. Maybe it already can, who knows.

Guys are running these FiTechs now and they will be driven through winter. It will be interesting to see how they do. And as for a street strip car, I tend to drive at maybe 1/8 throttle most times unless getting it on.

The track is a different deal but at WOT I would expect these to be at their best. I would probably have some trouble from pressurizing a 4150 to maybe 10 PSI before the TB/EFI (has 4500 bolt pattern on TB) into a pretty big single plane 4500 plenum with ginormous runners.

Look at the video at 6:00. I would hate to see part throttle.

http://paceperformance.com/i-22161048-fi...ack-finish.html

You keep missing the point.........These cheaper systems are NOT designed to do what you are trying to do. WILL they work and get by?.......maybe. Is that what they were intended to do.......NO. They are made for the weekend guy who wants to take his carb off on Saturday and be driving with EFI later in the day.

Lets face........you are building a RACE CAR. Now you may drive it on the street, but it's a RACE CAR. Those guys you are talking about racing with in Huntsville, where you say you need a SOLID 5 sec car.......you may need to reword that to solid MID 5 sec car. A couple of those guys are tickling the 4 sec zone.

This type performance level is NOT what these out of the box, $1200, Throttle Body injected systems are for

Monte, you bring a 5.0 / 150 car to a HSV street car race or you will help fill the field running in the mid 5's. The KOS class here has a real chance IMO and has cool guys. I just want to play with them in this wore out horse and have fun, while we still can.

So I ask, WHY NOT? Is it the coarseness or slow response of the control loop on the cheap computer?

Pressurizing probably changes a lot of flow dynamics, especially after the exit from the TB into the big plenum. If this thing can work at say 10 PSI, and still behave well at 2500 street cruise RPM, that may be good enough with safe tuning.

And here is an official apology to Monte:

The $20K number was an estimate I made in my head after hearing you talk of what it would cost total to put a blower on the 499, and EFI was just part of the deal. And I didn't have a blower then. A $5K running on a car deal came along that afternoon with a carb (elec solved), and I kinda forgot about EFI. So $20K stuck, and I just remembered after over a year. And I hope your Dad is doing OK.

Throttle Body injection is the issue. This is a just a carb you don't adjust, that starts easy, will idle and runs to a target air fuel.

You want to try and make 1200hp, with a blown car, that you will have ZERO cylinder to cylinder fuel control with..........not a good plan.

1) cylinder to cylinder control came about due to emissions, mostly idle emissions. Over a certain rpm you are effectively batch fired anyways.

There are plenty of batch fired systems making far more than a mere 1200 hp out there.

If you have that much variation in fuel demand from cylinder to cylinder you have other issues going on that should be addressed.

2) 1200 HP on a TBI style system.. not the hot setup I would agree but I have seen carb blow through systems making far more than 1200 hp and live.

I'd take an adjustable "TBI" system any day of the week over carbs but in this case if you are going to spend a few grand port EFI is the way to go in my opinion.

In some circles they call that buzz kill.

I can see it though as the fuel has to turn the corners properly. It does/did have EGTs, but with an obsolete RacePak.

This would be perfect for anything I hope to own

What is the short comings for the guy that only make 600- 900 HP NA. Not all of us are trying to break records. I was thinking about the system for street/bracket car just for cleaner idle and air fuel monitor. By the time you buy a Dominator and fuel system it's a wash in price.

Here is the thing about Throttle Body injected EFI systems. They are a quick and dirty EFI retro fit. That's it......Fuel is still injected above the throttle blades of the throttle body, just like a carb. You are at the mercy of air flow through the throttle body and distribution of the intake manifold, to distribute everything as it should. Better than a carb?....sure......as good as port injection?.....not even close. So if you are pretty happy with the carb, but want better starting, better idle and better fuel control, these are a decent deal for a street car or milder race car. GREAT for off road stuff, like Jeeps, where terrain changes wreak havoc on a carb.

On a boosted car, where it will be blow through, or on a fairly serious effort nitrous deal......will it WORK?....sure, but it will be mediocre at best and no better than a properly tuned carb from a performance standpoint.

There are MANY misconceptions about EFI. Airwoofer came by my shop, told me what he wanted to do, asked how much it would cost. I related a story of two cars I had done recently. One a two four barrel 600" top sportsman car. The guy brought me a running carbed car and wanted to pick up a running and tuned EFI car. I converted the intake, plumbed all the nitrous, wired the car, replaced fuel system, redid the cooling system, supplied every part of the EFI and everything else, plus tuned the car. He dropped 12K for that. I did a small tire, nitrous car from Canada. Same deal. I did it ALL. He had a single carb and one nitrous system, so it was cheaper, but he still dropped 11K........So given this info and knowing what the blower stuff would cost him, he comes to the conclusion that EFI will cost him 20K. Well maybe he was going to SPEND 20K, but that is NOT what the EFI costs.

It can cost a little, or it can cost a LOT, depending on how you do it, or what you can do yourself. You expect somebody like me to "turn key" it for you.......yes sir, it's going to be high. But so does going to an engine shop for a turn key engine, other than doing some of it yourself. Also WHAT and HOW you choose to do it matter.........Example. I can sell you $400 worth of 160lb Bosch injections, or I can sell you $1100 worth of 160lb Billet Atomizer injectors. The difference? one set is hand built, fully rebuildable and can be tailored. The others are what you get. Some guys want the BEST, and some say they can throw away a few injectors for the $700 difference. So you choose............I can convert your existing manifold, which costs money, because I have to machine bungs, machine manifold, weld it up, fab fuel rails and rail mounts, OR you can buy an EFI ready manifold, pop the injectors in it and be done. You can also put enough sensors on it to monitor EVERYTHING, or for the systems that use GM sensors, go to wrecking yard, hack a TPS, MAP, coolant temp, IAT off a wreck and have nothing in sensors........And so it goes on down the list. So when guys ask "what will EFI cost me".....that is one of the hardest questions there is to answer

This is where I hope to be so I'm going to ask the same question. Is the Fitech or EZ EFI systems a good fit for the 650-700hp crowd on pump gas?

Whats the air flow on the throttle body and how big
of injectors that can go into it... I went with the
Holley Dominator for my 416... in the carb form it was
590hp but I went with injectors that would support 700hp..
its just a matter of air flow and injector size to increase
the HP as long as the pump has the volume to also support it..
my complete system is good to 700hp.. I can say that it starts
great.. just lean in the window and give the key a quick turn..
it idles with no issues even when COLD

I had planned on just using the 1200hp version with a single plane intake, 512, Trick Flow Heads.

Somewhere between 91 and 93 I purchased the TBI Holly kit. After much problems and tech support I asked them to buy it back, no dice. I sent it back it came back with a clean bill of health. I reinstalled it, it still had poor performance, poor response and horrible fuel millage. I sold it to a savvy GM mechanic for a huge loss, he also was unable to make it perform well.
Next new Holley purchase Truck avenger also a failure. Did get refunded from seller. Holley later admitted to missing the mark on that carb.
I have purchased the FI tech GO4 it starts when cold as it wouldn't with the carb and runs well, throttle response is incredible. FItech's commitment to the consumer, to me has been absolutely impeccable. Calling me back at 5:30 in the evening to confirm all my components had been shipped and would be here before Christmas with tracking numbers, an explanation to why two tracking numbers dipped shipped pump their dime. Their tech advice before the sale polite,patient and knowledgeable and well articulated, after the sale thus far not needed!
Holley, MSD, FAST, would have cared less about this price point or level of consumer if FItech had not solidly filled the gap. Now they want in on the action Holley sat on their laurels with the 4150 series of carbs with their porosity problems until BG one upped their carbs casting process which he told them they had problems with. Holley's new fuel pickup mat have you seen the cost my God for that price I can buy a FI fuel tank and pump that fits my 72 duster "not common as Chevy" for less.
I will support FItech due to them catering to me, one of many without deep pockets. IMO
Oh and I believe the sniper is inferior and does not have all of the abilities if the FI tech systems as they Holley states in their literature and it's equally priced.

Does anyone know why the holley sniper and fitech system look virtually 100% identical? there has to be a reason or story here....... I too purchased a holley tbi system in the early 90s and it was a total pos,threw away alot of $$$ in that endeavor.I plan to buy a dual tbi setup from fitech for my hemicar