Re: why do newer age engines last longer than older?
[Re: Adam71Charger]
#1963178
12/04/15 03:42 PM
12/04/15 03:42 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,751 Graham, WA
Polarapete
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,751
Graham, WA
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Progress in assembly, oil formulation, fuel management, etc.
1986 Dodge Ramcharger 440 2wd, Bracket Racer Under Construction 1998 Ram 2500 QuadCab, new daily driver. 2008 Honda Element 2014 Carry-On 7x14 Cargo Trailer
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Re: why do newer age engines last longer than older?
[Re: Adam71Charger]
#1963185
12/04/15 03:53 PM
12/04/15 03:53 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
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Back in the day, piston rings were a big one. Old cast rings versus moly rings, the difference is huge. Even in the late 318's and magnum engines, cylinder bore wear is night and day versus the old ones.
Also, fuel management. If you've ever cracked the head off a carbed engine compared to the same engine with port EFI, the pistons and valves on the fuel injected one are very clean. On the carbed one they are all junked and carboned up. All that raw fuel, running rich, poor fuel distribution, takes it's toll on engines.
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Re: why do newer age engines last longer than older?
[Re: Adam71Charger]
#1963191
12/04/15 04:01 PM
12/04/15 04:01 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,165 CT
GTX MATT
master
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master
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CT
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1: Moly faced piston rings 2: Oil technology 3: Fuel management
4: AND this is probably the most important one, more so than the rings, harder bore sleeves. In 1981 it became federal law that cars had to pass emissions for 5 years/50000 miles. Old engines that were shot at 100K miles had significant bore wear at 50000 miles too (and were sometimes in need of a rebuild then). Bore wear leads to oil consumption and other nasty things that show up in emissions testing. So manufacturers had to make the bores hard enough to not be significantly worn at 50000 miles. A bore that is hard enough to not wear .001 at 50K miles doesn't wear much more at 100K miles, or 150K, and so fourth. Thats why we have engines with 300K miles that don't burn any oil and still make great cranking compression.
Last edited by GTX MATT; 12/04/15 04:03 PM.
Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
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Re: why do newer age engines last longer than older?
[Re: DaytonaTurbo]
#1963193
12/04/15 04:02 PM
12/04/15 04:02 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,153 A Red State
SNK-EYZ
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,153
A Red State
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Overdrive transmissions are another reason that the engine last longer.
The cruising rpms on the highway are now 2k or less when they used to be 3-4k. You've slowed the revs down by 50%.
As already stated with fuel injection keeping the a/f to where it needs to be there no more ring wash out and carbon build up.
Kayse can't keep up at all now. lol
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Re: why do newer age engines last longer than older?
[Re: Adam71Charger]
#1963199
12/04/15 04:10 PM
12/04/15 04:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,422 Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Posts: 12,422
Kalispell Mt.
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EFI don't dump as much raw fuel on the cylinder walls because it atomizes better and is more precise. Fuel is a bad lubricant. The EFI on modern engines also has the ability to turn on a CEL and let average people know when there is an issue, with a carb the vast majority of people will never know when it gets a little out of whack.
Better oil control means they can run lower tension and thickness rings and that means less friction.
OD trannys keeping RPM down when not needed to be high.
Hypereutechtic pistons are used in most engines now and the alloy is more slippery as well as tighter fittin in the bore at cold starts thereby reducing blowby of carbon and other harmfull substances. It expands less than forged or even old school cast.
Machining precision, the machine tollerances are held to a lot tighter standard again reducing friction.
Oil is much better now than 50 years ago, there was such wide variations in oil back then that you could not mix different brands a lot of times.
Better ignition systems like coil on plug ensure more complete combustion.
Better material in the bearings block and rings and cranks...
More thought is put into getting the engine to warm up faster thereby lowering emmisions caused on cold starts, also the cars are heavy forcing the engine to warm up faster to a more efficent temp. Higher temp thermostats also make the fuel evaportate faster keeping it out of the oil. Hot parts also generate less friction.
There is more also and some of these things are easily added to old engines and some are not.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: why do newer age engines last longer than older?
[Re: Adam71Charger]
#1963210
12/04/15 04:23 PM
12/04/15 04:23 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,257 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,257
Bend,OR USA
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Last edited by Cab_Burge; 12/05/15 03:23 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: why do newer age engines last longer than older?
[Re: Adam71Charger]
#1963264
12/04/15 05:48 PM
12/04/15 05:48 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,923 Richmond, Indiana
19swinger70
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,923
Richmond, Indiana
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My opinion is fuel injection - but I am just some dude.
Last edited by 19swinger70; 12/04/15 05:49 PM.
1970 340 swinger. sublime 1967 barracuda fastback BB 55 Plymouth Project
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Re: why do newer age engines last longer than older?
[Re: lewtot184]
#1963268
12/04/15 06:00 PM
12/04/15 06:00 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,165 CT
GTX MATT
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master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,165
CT
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unleaded gas is probably the biggest factor Interesting, whats the overall effect?
Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
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Re: why do newer age engines last longer than older?
[Re: Adam71Charger]
#1963327
12/04/15 08:28 PM
12/04/15 08:28 PM
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 5,915 ohio
ruderunner
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master
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ohio
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Lead sludge from blowby, also lead buildup on rings, combustion chambers, etc can gum up the works.
That's not to say all the old engines were used up at 100k, the IH sv series was known to go 300k between rebuilds. Those were carbd in the 60's. They were also industrial engines mmeant to chat away at 3 to4 thousand rpm all day everyday. High nickel blocks, forged cranks and generally heavy construction got them there.
Angry white pureblood male
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Re: why do newer age engines last longer than older?
[Re: GTX MATT]
#1963403
12/04/15 10:34 PM
12/04/15 10:34 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916 usa
lewtot184
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master
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usa
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unleaded gas is probably the biggest factor Interesting, whats the overall effect? lead wears an engine out. i don't think any metallics are good for them long term.
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Re: why do newer age engines last longer than older?
[Re: lewtot184]
#1963485
12/05/15 12:28 AM
12/05/15 12:28 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,257 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,257
Bend,OR USA
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Not true about the lead additives wearing motors out, that is a bunch of horse pucky spouted by a lot of the enviormental haters If you go back to the engines made originally in this country for our cars and trucks before the lead additives where being used in the fuel the motors needed valve and ring jobs long before 30,000 to 50,000 miles The lead additives added to the gas stop the need for the valve jobs and also help increase the ring life along with better valve life The lead additives, Tetra Ethel (SP?) was a lubricant for the valve seats and cylinder walls that reduce metal to metal wear, it didn't increase the engine wear
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: why do newer age engines last longer than older?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1963491
12/05/15 12:37 AM
12/05/15 12:37 AM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916 usa
lewtot184
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916
usa
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Not true about the lead additives wearing motors out, that is a bunch of horse pucky spouted by a lot of the enviormental haters If you go back to the engines made originally in this country for our cars and trucks before the lead additives where being used in the fuel the motors needed valve and ring jobs long before 30,000 to 50,000 miles The lead additives added to the gas stop the need for the valve jobs and also help increase the ring life along with better valve life The lead additives, Tetra Ethel (SP?) was a lubricant for the valve seats and cylinder walls that reduce metal to metal wear, it didn't increase the engine wear lead and other metallics due wear engines out. i doubt that the intended introduction of "lead" in gas was a valve seat lubricate but more of an octane boost. before lead compression ratios were stuck in the 7:1-8:1 max. as compression ratios increased during the fifties more lead was dumped in the fuel. non-detergent oils were a big factor in engine failures prior to detergent oils which were developed around the same time as "ethyl" was introduced. but, believe what you want.
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Re: why do newer age engines last longer than older?
[Re: Adam71Charger]
#1963536
12/05/15 01:49 AM
12/05/15 01:49 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,012 Salem
Grizzly
Moparts Proctologist
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Moparts Proctologist
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,012
Salem
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Without a doubt overdrive transmissions is the biggest factor.
EFI is better yes, but even they have to get run out on the highway to "blow the carbon out" every now and then.
Mo' Farts
Moderated by "tbagger".
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Re: why do newer age engines last longer than older?
[Re: lewtot184]
#1963538
12/05/15 01:56 AM
12/05/15 01:56 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,325 fredericksburg,va
cudaman1969
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,325
fredericksburg,va
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Not true about the lead additives wearing motors out, that is a bunch of horse pucky spouted by a lot of the enviormental haters If you go back to the engines made originally in this country for our cars and trucks before the lead additives where being used in the fuel the motors needed valve and ring jobs long before 30,000 to 50,000 miles The lead additives added to the gas stop the need for the valve jobs and also help increase the ring life along with better valve life The lead additives, Tetra Ethel (SP?) was a lubricant for the valve seats and cylinder walls that reduce metal to metal wear, it didn't increase the engine wear lead and other metallics due wear engines out. i doubt that the intended introduction of "lead" in gas was a valve seat lubricate but more of an octane boost. before lead compression ratios were stuck in the 7:1-8:1 max. as compression ratios increased during the fifties more lead was dumped in the fuel. non-detergent oils were a big factor in engine failures prior to detergent oils which were developed around the same time as "ethyl" was introduced. but, believe what you want. Hmm. Had a 68 GTS 340, around 72-73 blew a head gasket with 125,000 miles on it. After pulling head, no ring grove at all, bores very smooth. I was expecting some wear but found none, lead gas and that bad oil, changed at 10-12 thousand mile intervals. Maybe I was on to something. Guy I sold it to turned it into a race car. 4.10 gears and headers, car ran low 12s for next two years. Lost track after that.
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Re: why do newer age engines last longer than older?
[Re: Adam71Charger]
#1963612
12/05/15 05:30 AM
12/05/15 05:30 AM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,655 Cut and Shoot, TX
kentj340
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,655
Cut and Shoot, TX
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Here's what an engine designer says. “The California Air Resources Board and the E.P.A. have been very focused on making sure that catalytic converters perform within 96 percent of their original capability at 100,000 miles,” said Jagadish Sorab, technical leader for engine design at Ford Motor. “Because of this, we needed to reduce the amount of oil being used by the engine to reduce the oil reaching the catalysts. “Fifteen years ago, piston rings would show perhaps 50 microns of wear over the useful life of a vehicle,” Mr. Sorab said, referring to the engine part responsible for sealing combustion in the cylinder. “Today, it is less than 10 microns. As a benchmark, a human hair is 200 microns thick. “Materials are much better,” Mr. Sorab continued. “We can use very durable, diamondlike carbon finishes to prevent wear. We have tested our newest breed of EcoBoost engines, in our F-150 pickup, for 250,000 miles. When we tear the engines down, we cannot see any evidence of wear.” ----- “Competition is part of it,” said Peter Egan, a former auto mechanic and now editor at large of Road & Track magazine. “Japanese cars kind of upped everyone’s game a bit. With some exceptions, the engines would go a long time without burning oil or having other major problems.” Hyundai and Kia, the South Korean carmakers, now include 100,000-mile/10-year warranties on their cars’ powertrains. If a relatively abusive driver can count on no major mechanical failures before 100,000 miles, a careful owner can — and does — expect his car to go much farther. “My parents, with their ’56 Buick, used to have the wheel bearings repacked with grease before a long trip. Nobody does that anymore. The lubricants are better, the machining is better.” from: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/18/automobiles/as-cars-are-kept-longer-200000-is-new-100000.html?_r=0
If you don't see two dolphins, you need a vacation.
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