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flex form composite springs/1965 dart build
#1940709
10/28/15 10:41 PM
10/28/15 10:41 PM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 47
Indianapolis.IN
prrc
OP
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OP
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 47
Indianapolis.IN
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have been looking at options for springs for my build . A little about the car. 1965 Dodge Dart. Best guess on weight will be 2800. front suspension is now a coil over set up. I have looked at Hotchkis springs for the 67 up A bodies and post a thread asking about them with very but very little feedback using them in my application. Here is what is confusing. My rear springs are moved in to the frame rails to accommodate my rear wheel choice. Had to make some room back there. just not much to work with in stock form. Witch brings me to spring rate. I know moving the spring in will require a stiffer spring rate. Thinking the Hotchkis spring was designed for the later a bodies I would assume the 67 up car where heavier. hotchkis rates there springs at 130. Now after not much feed back I looked at Flex Form composite springs. Talked to a guy by the name of Mark there. He is suggesting 200 rate spring witch leaves me very confused. can anyone shed some light on this subject for me. Thanks Tim
Last edited by prrc; 11/01/15 09:03 PM.
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Re: flex form composite springs
[Re: prrc]
#1940769
10/29/15 12:25 AM
10/29/15 12:25 AM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
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I have a number of sets of composite leafs, Flex and Hyperco. I like a stiff suspension. 225lb are my main choice on the b bodys. I have just installed a 200lb set on an early A, but its not on the road yet. I'm shooting for a 50/50 F/R set-up. I'm thinking the 175lb set might have been a better choice. The A will be in the 2600lb range. They are a great solution IMO. See Pic #60, these are Flex's, over 20 yrs old, 225lb on another a body. https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/1553823/1.html
Last edited by jcc; 10/29/15 12:53 AM.
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: flex form composite springs
[Re: jcc]
#1940919
10/29/15 11:01 AM
10/29/15 11:01 AM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 47
Indianapolis.IN
prrc
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 47
Indianapolis.IN
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Thanks for in input. Could you tell me a little more about your car. I was thinking my car would be around 2800, Maybe I'm way off of your estimation is 2600. Any pictures you could share? Thanks Tim I have a number of sets of composite leafs, Flex and Hyperco. I like a stiff suspension. 225lb are my main choice on the b bodys. I have just installed a 200lb set on an early A, but its not on the road yet. I'm shooting for a 50/50 F/R set-up. I'm thinking the 175lb set might have been a better choice. The A will be in the 2600lb range. They are a great solution IMO. See Pic #60, these are Flex's, over 20 yrs old, 225lb on another a body. https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/1553823/1.html
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Re: flex form composite springs
[Re: prrc]
#1940946
10/29/15 11:56 AM
10/29/15 11:56 AM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
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I'll locate some pics. Its a 62 Lancer. I'm making a number of changes, both lightening and adding stuff, like going from 7.25 rear to alum 8.75, losing very small drums to go to small discs, etc, so weight is is still a big guessestimate for me, but stated factory weight was just over 2600lb for mine.
Another thing on the composite leafs, as also mentioned by Ron Sutton, and it seems to be correct, the composite leafs have much better harmonic disposition vs steel.
Last edited by jcc; 10/29/15 12:06 PM.
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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250
[Re: prrc]
#1941063
10/29/15 03:20 PM
10/29/15 03:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,442
NW Chicago suburban area
Mopar Mitch
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,442
NW Chicago suburban area
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PRRC -- I've run the FlexAForm fiberglass mono leafs with very good results and satisfaction. The primary reason I switched to them, back in the late 80s, was for weight reduction for my SCCA E/SP class competition. They weigh only about 10# each; the factory SS leafs I was previously running (de-arched) were very heavy at ~30# each. Other top-rated SCCA AX competitors had good results with FlexAForm... they worked with me to determine the best choice for my intentions.
You first need to know your 4-corner weight as you'd be typically driving/racing (fuel level, trunk items, etc). For best handling with leafs, you want them to be near a flat level most of the time... little arch. In my setup, we determined 225# with a 5" uncompressed arch... compressed at-rest resulted in about 1~1.5" arch ... a slight compromise allowed by me for some rare street/hwy driving (full tank, trunk stuff, etc... bt not much... always conscious of the extra weight I'd have in the car.
If I'd do it again, I'd consider a touch stiffer from current 225/5 to 250/4... I know other AX racers running their GM f-bodies at 250/4 and they like them.
For street driving there are occasional rough roads.. and... the stiffer REAR suspension will become more noticeable quickly to you... before the front stiffer suspension gets noticed.
I suggest working with FlexAForm... they're a good company (OE Corvette experience) -- you don't want "off the shelf" leafs if you can avoid it.. because they aren't typically made to YOUR specs needed for YOUR specific car and intentions.
Also, all new leafs (metal or fglass) will take a short initial time to settle... maybe ~2-weeks.
Whatever you get, avoid high-arch springs (with your car at-rest) as that will defeat the intended purpose of improved handling. Of course, if you routinely drive over rough roads, you WILL feel the ride as on the rough-side, so... avoid rough roads.
Last edited by Mopar Mitch; 10/29/15 03:26 PM.
Mopar Mitch
"Road racers and autocrossers go in deeper and come out harder!"... and rain never stops us from having fun with our cars... in fact, it makes us better drivers!
Check out MOPAR ACTION MAGAZINE, August 2006 issue for feature article and specs on my autocross T/A!
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Re: 250
[Re: Mopar Mitch]
#1941211
10/29/15 07:48 PM
10/29/15 07:48 PM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 47
Indianapolis.IN
prrc
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OP
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 47
Indianapolis.IN
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Hey Mitch, This is Tim owner of Paradise Road Rod & Custom, in Indy. We have talked several times. The car is still being build. Unfortunately.I was thinking that 200 was pretty stiff for as light as the car is. my estimate is 2800 but may come it a little over or under that number. your car is running 225/5 i would think you car has got to out weigh mine by a good 800lbs if not more. That was the reason for confusion on my end. I was thinking 175 but that maybe not enough. I will talk with Mark tomorrow. PRRC -- I've run the FlexAForm fiberglass mono leafs with very good results and satisfaction. The primary reason I switched to them, back in the late 80s, was for weight reduction for my SCCA E/SP class competition. They weigh only about 10# each; the factory SS leafs I was previously running (de-arched) were very heavy at ~30# each. Other top-rated SCCA AX competitors had good results with FlexAForm... they worked with me to determine the best choice for my intentions.
You first need to know your 4-corner weight as you'd be typically driving/racing (fuel level, trunk items, etc). For best handling with leafs, you want them to be near a flat level most of the time... little arch. In my setup, we determined 225# with a 5" uncompressed arch... compressed at-rest resulted in about 1~1.5" arch ... a slight compromise allowed by me for some rare street/hwy driving (full tank, trunk stuff, etc... bt not much... always conscious of the extra weight I'd have in the car.
If I'd do it again, I'd consider a touch stiffer from current 225/5 to 250/4... I know other AX racers running their GM f-bodies at 250/4 and they like them.
For street driving there are occasional rough roads.. and... the stiffer REAR suspension will become more noticeable quickly to you... before the front stiffer suspension gets noticed.
I suggest working with FlexAForm... they're a good company (OE Corvette experience) -- you don't want "off the shelf" leafs if you can avoid it.. because they aren't typically made to YOUR specs needed for YOUR specific car and intentions.
Also, all new leafs (metal or fglass) will take a short initial time to settle... maybe ~2-weeks.
Whatever you get, avoid high-arch springs (with your car at-rest) as that will defeat the intended purpose of improved handling. Of course, if you routinely drive over rough roads, you WILL feel the ride as on the rough-side, so... avoid rough roads.
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Re: flex form composite springs
[Re: prrc]
#1941264
10/29/15 08:48 PM
10/29/15 08:48 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,074
Manitoba Canada
67autocross
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,074
Manitoba Canada
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If I was as deep in as you are I would do some kind of matching coil over set up front and rear, when I was building my 67 Dart I bought the RMS front end and a few months later ended up ordering the rear kit.
The only thing I would change now is mine only has the single adjustable QA1 shocks, I have been running Viking double adjustable on one of my other cars ( stock type suspension) all summer and you can completely change how the car rides and handles with a few clicks of the shocks.
Very nice project by the way, the HDK looks like a really nice piece and those 65 Darts a really under rated looking cars.
A new iron curtain drawn across the 49th parallel
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Re: flex form composite springs/1965 Dart build
[Re: prrc]
#1943207
11/01/15 08:57 PM
11/01/15 08:57 PM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 47
Indianapolis.IN
prrc
OP
member
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OP
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 47
Indianapolis.IN
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Pulled the trigger Friday on a set of Flexform springs 5" free arch with a 200lb rate. 6 weeks to make them. I have another set of 225/5 that I will use to mock up the rear suspension.
Last edited by prrc; 11/01/15 09:01 PM.
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Re: flex form composite springs
[Re: prrc]
#1963233
12/04/15 04:59 PM
12/04/15 04:59 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,442
NW Chicago suburban area
Mopar Mitch
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,442
NW Chicago suburban area
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PRRC -- good choice.. and working with FlexaForm... good company!
I have FlexaForm at 225/5 and it rest nearly flat (~1" arch at rest)... settles a bit more with some weight for minimal traveling/cruises.
If I'd do it again, I might try 250/4 or 275/4.
But... my next step is dbl-adj shocks (Viking or QA1)... to replace my old red Konis.
Mopar Mitch
"Road racers and autocrossers go in deeper and come out harder!"... and rain never stops us from having fun with our cars... in fact, it makes us better drivers!
Check out MOPAR ACTION MAGAZINE, August 2006 issue for feature article and specs on my autocross T/A!
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