Re: CAP Tubular Upper Control arms...a warning
[Re: AlexP]
#1948825
11/10/15 04:27 PM
11/10/15 04:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,442 NW Chicago suburban area
Mopar Mitch
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,442
NW Chicago suburban area
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Wow.. you're lucky... unbelievable that that would happen from such minimal usage. As you know... CAP sold off to QA1... I think QA1 made improvements since then.
Consider Firm Feel UCAs... simple and easy to install with good caster/camber available. Substitute the Moog offset bushings and you'll be able to get about up to +7 caster (that's about 2-3-4 more + degrees using the offset bushings. (I know someone who's done that on their a-body.)
Last edited by Mopar Mitch; 11/10/15 04:35 PM.
Mopar Mitch
"Road racers and autocrossers go in deeper and come out harder!"... and rain never stops us from having fun with our cars... in fact, it makes us better drivers!
Check out MOPAR ACTION MAGAZINE, August 2006 issue for feature article and specs on my autocross T/A!
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Re: CAP Tubular Upper Control arms...a warning
[Re: AlexP]
#1948880
11/10/15 06:04 PM
11/10/15 06:04 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696 Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
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Your bushing problem is systematic with all urethane bushings from my experience. Their demise has little to do with use, unless maybe its lack of use. When asking the the Urethane vendors at PRI why urethane fails like this, often suddenly, you get that dumb dog TILTED HEAD look response.
Last edited by jcc; 11/10/15 11:25 PM.
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: CAP Tubular Upper Control arms...a warning
[Re: AlexP]
#1949470
11/11/15 04:42 PM
11/11/15 04:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,442 NW Chicago suburban area
Mopar Mitch
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,442
NW Chicago suburban area
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My front sway bar (1.25" dia) urethane sway bar end link bushings routinely wear out and disintegrate.. every few years... (I use rubber in the rear links... no problem... 1.0" diameter rear bar). I have Delrin uca bushings... still a-ok after ~30 years.
Mopar Mitch
"Road racers and autocrossers go in deeper and come out harder!"... and rain never stops us from having fun with our cars... in fact, it makes us better drivers!
Check out MOPAR ACTION MAGAZINE, August 2006 issue for feature article and specs on my autocross T/A!
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Re: CAP Tubular Upper Control arms...a warning
[Re: AlexP]
#1951630
11/15/15 02:09 PM
11/15/15 02:09 PM
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 106 Central IL
Trojmn
member
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member
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 106
Central IL
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Urethane bushings on rotating suspension are a bearing surface. If they are not kept lubed they will grind to dust. The metal that is worn against the urethane rusts and becomes rough it will exasperate the issue. This is very common in neon lca bushings. The easy solution for sway bar bushings is to drill for a zerk all the way to the bar. A couple squirts of your favorite chassis grease and they will live a very long life.
Last edited by Trojmn; 11/15/15 02:10 PM.
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Re: CAP Tubular Upper Control arms...a warning
[Re: Trojmn]
#1951676
11/15/15 03:35 PM
11/15/15 03:35 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696 Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
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"A couple squirts of your favorite chassis grease and they will live a very long life." I strongly question that, as I have seen many cases of urethane sitting on the shelf, fail over time. Now if the suggestion is that an oil squirt keeps them from "drying out", seems the manufactures would promote that, unless selling replacements is their real objective, every few years.
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: CAP Tubular Upper Control arms...a warning
[Re: AlexP]
#1951699
11/15/15 04:10 PM
11/15/15 04:10 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889 up yours
Supercuda
About to go away
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About to go away
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
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I ran polygraphite bushings for years without squeaks or failure. Never tried plain polyurethane ones though.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.
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Re: CAP Tubular Upper Control arms...a warning
[Re: jcc]
#1952297
11/16/15 02:01 PM
11/16/15 02:01 PM
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 106 Central IL
Trojmn
member
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member
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 106
Central IL
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"A couple squirts of your favorite chassis grease and they will live a very long life." I strongly question that, as I have seen many cases of urethane sitting on the shelf, fail over time. Now if the suggestion is that an oil squirt keeps them from "drying out", seems the manufactures would promote that, unless selling replacements is their real objective, every few years. I strongly question you back. and raise you with the blanket universal YMMV. I "strongly question" that all urethane is the same formula. in fact we all know its not (dif durometers and all that for one). Im not a chemist, im referring to physical wear. But i'd suspect there are diff formulas for environmental use heat, chemical, wear, flexibility etc... And that opens the door for all kinds of reasons of failure. I was specifically referring to suspension bushing that involve a twisting motion and that the urethane is moving against a surface >>> UCA/LCA (yeah know the subject of this thread?)and sway bars frame bushings would exactly fall into that category. FSB and LCA (in neon) for several years, MANY MANY AutoX runs, 100K+ road miles with out failure where it is actually common to replace every 25-30K miles. The specific points again are that in this application the bearing surface if it gets dry will wear off whatever corrosion prohibitor and that surface will rust, rough, and waller (tech term) out the bushing. again that UCA/LCA "bushing" is sliding on metal all the time. 2gn neon front LCA Elsewhere I use a ES ford ranger LCA spec bushing just because it happens to fit my engine torque struts (aftermarket) on my autox SRT4. They decidedly do not last a long time. After about a year the center turns to a tarry goo, likely too hot. oh well replace and go racing. Other ES urethane inserts into the OEM rubber isolator torque strut in the EXACT same place, lived a very long happy life. despite both have "urethane" in the name and from the same manufacture (ES) could it be that there is not one size fits all formula? I'd suspect there are varying degrees of formula for application and environment.
Last edited by Trojmn; 11/21/15 08:14 PM. Reason: pics man.
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Re: CAP Tubular Upper Control arms...a warning
[Re: Mopar Mitch]
#1953121
11/17/15 04:41 PM
11/17/15 04:41 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 16,133 Mesa, Arizona
dart4forte
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 16,133
Mesa, Arizona
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Wow.. you're lucky... unbelievable that that would happen from such minimal usage. As you know... CAP sold off to QA1... I think QA1 made improvements since then.
Consider Firm Feel UCAs... simple and easy to install with good caster/camber available. Substitute the Moog offset bushings and you'll be able to get about up to +7 caster (that's about 2-3-4 more + degrees using the offset bushings. (I know someone who's done that on their a-body.) I second it with Firm Feel. They make good quality parts.
“So if it’s on the internet it must be true”
Abe Lincoln
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