Re: 318 Duster won't keep timing
[Re: moparborn]
#1925773
10/04/15 09:01 PM
10/04/15 09:01 PM
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RustyDuster
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If the shaft was broken I would bet it would be a whole lot worse,under acceleration or high rpm the timing would probably slip beyond runable. I agree, it would be undriveable if the shaft were broken.
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Re: 318 Duster won't keep timing
[Re: SIKPUP]
#1925774
10/04/15 09:01 PM
10/04/15 09:01 PM
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RustyDuster
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Does your timing chain have all steel gears ? or the plastic coated ones ? The gears are all steel, no plastic.
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Re: 318 Duster won't keep timing
[Re: BigBlockMopar]
#1925779
10/04/15 09:05 PM
10/04/15 09:05 PM
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RustyDuster
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I've seen this happen once on a car where the intermediate shaft gear and the gear teeth on the cam were almost totally worn away.
Pull the distributor and look at the tang. Also pull the intermediate shaft and check for wear.
The gear looks OK from what I can tell just removing the distributor. I have not had the opportunity to remove the intermediate shaft as that would require removing the cylinder head. This will probably be my next step if replacing the distributor doesn't remedy the issue.
Last edited by RustyDuster; 10/04/15 09:08 PM.
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Re: 318 Duster won't keep timing
[Re: moparborn]
#1925785
10/04/15 09:10 PM
10/04/15 09:10 PM
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I stand corrected. I should have stated distributor drive gear. "it appears to be retarded. Because I have to advance it to put it back to spec. This is with a timing light?How does it run when you start it with corrected timing and how long? Distributor bolt is tight but is the distributor itself tight? I do set the timing with a timing light. It runs fine when the timing has been newly set. Once completing a short drive, maybe fifteen or twenty minutes, I stop the car and it will not restart. This is when I discover that the timing is again off. It does not do this every time, however.
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Re: 318 Duster won't keep timing
[Re: RustyDuster]
#1925820
10/04/15 10:17 PM
10/04/15 10:17 PM
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RapidRobert
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Once completing a short drive, maybe fifteen or twenty minutes, I stop the car and it will not restart. This is when I discover that the timing is again off. It does not do this every time, however. How far off & which way? same amt each time when it does do it?
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Re: 318 Duster won't keep timing
[Re: dogdays]
#1926483
10/05/15 07:37 PM
10/05/15 07:37 PM
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My thoughts too. The only place where something like this would be likely to happen is in the mechanical advance mechanism.
R. X3, there is no way what is happening is happening unless the distributor clamp is loose A friend had this issue, the part inside of the distributor that is supposed to MOVE was stuck. OP , take off the distributor cap and grab the rotor and turn it , it should move fairly easy a small amount and then spring back when you let go.
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Re: 318 Duster won't keep timing
[Re: JohnRR]
#1926716
10/06/15 12:23 AM
10/06/15 12:23 AM
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RapidRobert
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take off the distributor cap and grab the rotor and turn it , it should move fairly easy a small amount and then spring back when you let go. Agreed, twist it CW/let loose/see if it retracts all the way. Then as needed open it up & good visual inside
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Re: 318 Duster won't keep timing
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1927326
10/06/15 09:53 PM
10/06/15 09:53 PM
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take off the distributor cap and grab the rotor and turn it , it should move fairly easy a small amount and then spring back when you let go. Agreed, twist it CW/let loose/see if it retracts all the way. Then as needed open it up & good visual inside I did this and it moved fairly easily and sprung back into position when released.
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Re: 318 Duster won't keep timing
[Re: dan9]
#1927327
10/06/15 09:55 PM
10/06/15 09:55 PM
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Have you determined if the distributor housing is itself moving under the clamp after your drive? It appears that the distributor housing is secure when the bolt is tight. I have changed the rotor and cap. Tomorrow the new distributor will arrive and I will update the thread when I have completed this and tested it. I did drive the car today and upon running, stopping, and restarting the timing did not shift this time. However, as I said earlier it is sporadic.
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Re: 318 Duster won't keep timing
[Re: RustyDuster]
#1927409
10/06/15 11:51 PM
10/06/15 11:51 PM
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RapidRobert
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with it being hit or miss it'll take some time to see if the new dist takes care of it. If desired send the old one to me & I'll figure out what was wrong with it & if you want it back just pay the shipping. On the new one you might note: what springs are in it, the # on the plate and the # on the can arm (& what the orig one had). EDIT when the timing does shift, how much and which way ???
Last edited by RapidRobert; 10/06/15 11:57 PM.
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Re: 318 Duster won't keep timing
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1927419
10/07/15 12:03 AM
10/07/15 12:03 AM
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with it being hit or miss it'll take some time to see if the new dist takes care of it. If desired send the old one to me & I'll figure out what was wrong with it & if you want it back just pay the shipping. On the new one you might note: what springs are in it, the # on the plate and the # on the can arm (& what the orig one had). EDIT when the timing does shift, how much and which way ??? When the timing shifts, I have to advance it to put it back in spec; so it is retarding when it shifts. At this point, I honestly couldn't say that it shifts an exact amount each time consistently, only that it is sufficient to prevent the car from starting.
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Re: 318 Duster won't keep timing
[Re: RustyDuster]
#1927462
10/07/15 12:46 AM
10/07/15 12:46 AM
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RapidRobert
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Ok so on the occaision when it wont start you turn the dist a slight bit CCW then it starts & then when it starts & you check it with your light & the marks are where they were before? (Marks the same as the last time you checked/reset it?)
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Re: 318 Duster won't keep timing
[Re: moparjim79]
#1927477
10/07/15 01:16 AM
10/07/15 01:16 AM
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Also, every time I set the timing, it had to be set ahead, because once you tightened the clamp on the dist down, the timing mark would move. Actually watched it happen while friend tightened bolt. Did you guys miss this one? Sounds to me like either the dist has surface depressions where the hold down sits, or something isn't as flat as its suppose to be. As he tightens the hold down, its pulling the dist back to where someone really cranked the hold down to. I had a 360 one time where the block at the distributor was not cut flat. Every time you set the timing, and tightened the clamp, it would return to the original setting. I ended up replacing the dist, the hold down bracket, and making a soft shim for under the dist! Even after that, the idea the timing is retarding itself enough for the motor not to start is something I'm having a hard time dealing with. I suspect there has to be a timing chain issue. I've dealt with that before as well, but that is a story for another time. Gene
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Re: 318 Duster won't keep timing
[Re: poorboy]
#1927490
10/07/15 01:46 AM
10/07/15 01:46 AM
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RapidRobert
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Did you guys miss this one? Gene I did! I was wondering what kind of voodoo we was dealing with
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Re: 318 Duster won't keep timing
[Re: poorboy]
#1927623
10/07/15 11:38 AM
10/07/15 11:38 AM
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Also, every time I set the timing, it had to be set ahead, because once you tightened the clamp on the dist down, the timing mark would move. Actually watched it happen while friend tightened bolt. Did you guys miss this one? Sounds to me like either the dist has surface depressions where the hold down sits, or something isn't as flat as its suppose to be. As he tightens the hold down, its pulling the dist back to where someone really cranked the hold down to. I had a 360 one time where the block at the distributor was not cut flat. Every time you set the timing, and tightened the clamp, it would return to the original setting. I ended up replacing the dist, the hold down bracket, and making a soft shim for under the dist! Even after that, the idea the timing is retarding itself enough for the motor not to start is something I'm having a hard time dealing with. I suspect there has to be a timing chain issue. I've dealt with that before as well, but that is a story for another time. Gene I saw that but it was somewhat confusing to me. Why would someone set timing, lock down the distributor, see that it moved and leave it like that ... assuming he even checked it afterwards? He did say he changed the chain a couple years ago in the original post ... or did you miss that ??? ... so unless he put a crappy chinese piece of junk in there, or has driven 100k miles in that last 2 years, then the chain may not be the issue ... but stranger things have happened.
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Re: 318 Duster won't keep timing
[Re: JohnRR]
#1928168
10/08/15 03:11 AM
10/08/15 03:11 AM
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poorboy
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Also, every time I set the timing, it had to be set ahead, because once you tightened the clamp on the dist down, the timing mark would move. Actually watched it happen while friend tightened bolt. Did you guys miss this one? Sounds to me like either the dist has surface depressions where the hold down sits, or something isn't as flat as its suppose to be. As he tightens the hold down, its pulling the dist back to where someone really cranked the hold down to. I had a 360 one time where the block at the distributor was not cut flat. Every time you set the timing, and tightened the clamp, it would return to the original setting. I ended up replacing the dist, the hold down bracket, and making a soft shim for under the dist! Even after that, the idea the timing is retarding itself enough for the motor not to start is something I'm having a hard time dealing with. I suspect there has to be a timing chain issue. I've dealt with that before as well, but that is a story for another time. Gene I saw that but it was somewhat confusing to me. Why would someone set timing, lock down the distributor, see that it moved and leave it like that ... assuming he even checked it afterwards? He did say he changed the chain a couple years ago in the original post ... or did you miss that ??? ... so unless he put a crappy chinese piece of junk in there, or has driven 100k miles in that last 2 years, then the chain may not be the issue ... but stranger things have happened. I saw that. I can think of very few things that can retard the timing on a running motor enough that it won't start, short of a timing chain. Guess that brings up the point that the issue might not be ignition timing at all. Maybe he has a defective lead between the dist & the coil and the act of moving the dist is moving stuff just enough its making connections again. I suggest he look at the wiring where it enters the dist and be sure its not shorting to ground at the connection. A different dist would cure that issue. When it won't start, does he have a spark? The issue may not even be ignition related at all but could be a low oil pressure issue that cranking the motor is temporarily solving. Gene
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Re: 318 Duster won't keep timing
[Re: poorboy]
#1928362
10/08/15 02:17 PM
10/08/15 02:17 PM
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RapidRobert
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Rusty don't even think about vacating without informing us what it ends up being!
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