Help! Crank case pressure and oil pan leak??
#1888688
08/10/15 12:12 PM
08/10/15 12:12 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 106 Norway
cudaerik
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 106
Norway
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I'm struggling with my new 500cid low deck stroker moror. I have a big oil pan leak from the front right corner and in the area of the rear main seal retainer. The Engine is equipped with a Milodoon Road race pan (part# 31580) and a windage tray. Frist thing I checked was if it leaked from the rear main seal but nothing comes out that way. I have checked alignment and height of both front timing cover and rear mail seal retainer and that seem to be ok. I have used gaskets from Superformance two times now, once dry and once with small amount of High temp RTV where the timing cover meets the block and the same with the rear seal retainer. The pan is not warped and is 100% flat. As soon as the engine gets warm and gets reved above 3000rpm it starts leaking. I'm running an open air filter style valve cover breathers on both vale covers but it still shows signs of crank case pressure with the deep stick raising out of it's tube. When I rev the hot engine without the breather I feel a slight pressure coming out of the breather grommet in the valve cover. The engine is freshly built professionally so I'm doubtful to piston ring blow by.
The oil leak is driving me crazy and I wonder if there is anything I could I have missed out? I consider trying to set it up with a vacuum pump, thoughts on that for a street motor?
1970 Plymouth Cuda, 512cid on 230 400 block, 5 speed manual.(TKO 600) 1970 Dodge Charger 500, 446cid, 5speed manual.(TKO 600) 1969 Plymouth Roadrunner, 383cid, 5speed manual (Tremec TKX)
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Re: Help! Crank case pressure and oil pan leak??
[Re: cudaerik]
#1888702
08/10/15 12:30 PM
08/10/15 12:30 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506 Az
Crizila
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
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A "slight" pressure is ok, but it sounds like you have too much blow-by if the dip stick tube is venting with the valve covers vented also. I would run a leak-down test next. Then maybe put a few miles on it and run the test again to see if there are any changes. Excessive blow-by could just be because the motor is new. A pan oil leak would occur all the time - although more excessive at higher RPM.
Fastest 300
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Re: Help! Crank case pressure and oil pan leak??
[Re: Crizila]
#1888713
08/10/15 12:41 PM
08/10/15 12:41 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,593 Great Neck,LI,new york
hemi-itis
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,593
Great Neck,LI,new york
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Concider a better breather set up,or better than that,,,,,,an electric vacume pump to relieive the crank case pressure.
HEMI-ITIS has no cure. My condition is fully BLOWN!!
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Re: Help! Crank case pressure and oil pan leak??
[Re: cudaerik]
#1888766
08/10/15 01:57 PM
08/10/15 01:57 PM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,422 Pittsburgh PA
Eric
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,422
Pittsburgh PA
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I run a electric air pump on mine out of a S-10 pick-up.
5.53 @ 125 1/8th on the launch control..more left in her!
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Re: Help! Crank case pressure and oil pan leak??
[Re: cudaerik]
#1888770
08/10/15 02:04 PM
08/10/15 02:04 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,719 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,719
Bend,OR USA
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New motors may take a while for the rings to seal up well Did the block have a torque plate on it when honed? If not it may take longer for the rings to seat On my 511 and 518 C.I. 400 stroker motors I ended up with two PCV and two breathers, one each on both valve covers
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Help! Crank case pressure and oil pan leak??
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1888858
08/10/15 03:51 PM
08/10/15 03:51 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506 Az
Crizila
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
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New motors may take a while for the rings to seal up well Did the block have a torque plate on it when honed? If not it may take longer for the rings to seat On my 511 and 518 C.I. 400 stroker motors I ended up with two PCV and two breathers, one each on both valve covers Before you start looking at a crankcase vacuum system, verify you don't have a blow-by problem. With both valve covers vented, you should not be blowing the dip stick out of the tube @ 3K, even on a big incher.
Fastest 300
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Re: Help! Crank case pressure and oil pan leak??
[Re: cudaerik]
#1888888
08/10/15 04:24 PM
08/10/15 04:24 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319 Puyallup, WA
StealthWedge67
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
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Andy knows more than most, So I read his post and would tend to put a lot of weight in his words. With that said, enough blow by to push the dipstick out of the tube, coupled with RPM related oil leaks at the pan gasket, do not seem to be a good signs to me. Considering 500 cubes in a lowdeck generally means fairly short pistons, I'd be tempted to pull it and ask the builder to tear it down and take a real good look at the rings & skirts for evidence of anything unusual that could have happened upon initial start or break-in. ???.... your choice may vary.
Good luck! and keep us posted.
LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready - 11.07 @ 120
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Re: Help! Crank case pressure and oil pan leak??
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1888909
08/10/15 04:49 PM
08/10/15 04:49 PM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,144 wellington ohio
68-scatpack-rt
In thin ice
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In thin ice
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,144
wellington ohio
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New motors may take a while for the rings to seal up well Did the block have a torque plate on it when honed? If not it may take longer for the rings to seat On my 511 and 518 C.I. 400 stroker motors I ended up with two PCV and two breathers, one each on both valve covers Having an intake vent and a PVC valve on both covers would just vent the area directly below the covers. The idea is to pull outside air from the valve cover with the intake vent, through the crankcase and out the PVC valve on the opposite valve cover using manifold vacuum. I would think excessive blowby is your problem.
unions....the folks who brought you the weekend!
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Re: Help! Crank case pressure and oil pan leak??
[Re: cudaerik]
#1889020
08/10/15 07:36 PM
08/10/15 07:36 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,219 New York
polyspheric
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,219
New York
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it sounds like you have too much blow-by
X2
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: Help! Crank case pressure and oil pan leak??
[Re: cudaerik]
#1889315
08/11/15 04:37 AM
08/11/15 04:37 AM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 106 Norway
cudaerik
OP
member
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OP
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 106
Norway
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Thanks a lot for sharing knowledge! I will do a proper leak down test to check blow by. With two open air filter style breathers that have no resistance when I blow through them I doubt that I do not have proper enough crank case ventilation. I guess if all cylinders is within 10-15% leak down I have to go down the path of installing a vacuum pump. This car / engine are only street driven is there anything I need to consider regarding vacuum pump choice or installation?
1970 Plymouth Cuda, 512cid on 230 400 block, 5 speed manual.(TKO 600) 1970 Dodge Charger 500, 446cid, 5speed manual.(TKO 600) 1969 Plymouth Roadrunner, 383cid, 5speed manual (Tremec TKX)
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Re: Help! Crank case pressure and oil pan leak??
[Re: cudaerik]
#1889356
08/11/15 10:31 AM
08/11/15 10:31 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Check the breathers first... see if you can blow through them... I bought a pair of chrome Summit ones that I could barely get air through... I pulled part of the stuffing out and bent the loovers open more (blow from the oil side)
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Re: Help! Crank case pressure and oil pan leak??
[Re: cudaerik]
#1890294
08/12/15 03:04 PM
08/12/15 03:04 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,272 Northern Calyfornua
Sxrxrnr
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,272
Northern Calyfornua
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Are you certain that your RR oil pan flange is not dimpled or otherwise distorted? I've this same pan and found that torquing to recommended 15 pounds will grossly distort this flimsy/poorly designed flange.
I've posted before photos of my own little fix. If pan flange is damaged you will first require surgery to repair,,,hopefully successful. Once damaged and repaired, the metal has been compromised and will distort easier.
Used 1 inch wide by 1/8 inch thick steel stock, available at any hardware store.
Resolved my issues and all is well.
A major side benefit is with proper torquing, I am not required to use any silicone goop,,,I do use a bit at rear main seal retainer for insurance,,,makes for a much simpler oil pan RR next time.
I am aware that someone supplies a gasket with steel inserts or some such design at the bolt holes to help eliminate this distortion. I know available for Chevy(in fact I think factory built uses such), have not checked for Mopar.
Last edited by Sxrxrnr; 08/12/15 03:25 PM.
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Re: Help! Crank case pressure and oil pan leak??
[Re: Sxrxrnr]
#1890302
08/12/15 03:20 PM
08/12/15 03:20 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,272 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,272
PA.
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Are you certain that your RR oil pan flange is not dimpled or otherwise distorted? I've this same pan and found that torquing to recommended 15 pounds will grossly distort this flimsy/poorly designed flange.
I've posted before photos of my own little fix. If pan flange is damaged you will first require surgery to repair,,,hopefully successful. Once damaged and repaired, the metal has been compromised and will distort easier.
Used 1 inch wide by 1/8 inch thick steel stock, available at any hardware store.
Resolved my issues and all is well.
A major side benefit is with proper torquing, I am not required to use any silicone goop,,,I do use a bit at rear main seal retainer for insurance,,,makes for a much simpler oil pan RR next time. Nice job. I like those.
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.38@138.67
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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