440 stroker engine to roller cam or Mr Six pack cam??
#1881571
07/30/15 03:40 PM
07/30/15 03:40 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,347 Wahoo Nebr
vette1986
OP
pro stock
|
OP
pro stock
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,347
Wahoo Nebr
|
Hello guys, I need some input here as I have been driving my 71 charger rt for a couple years now probably 1500-2000 miles total and from time to time when it is warmed up I can here a light ticking from valvetrain and the car does seem to be down on power from when I first got it out. Here are the specs: -440 stroker with 440 source 500 inch stroker kit -9.8 to 1 comp -stealth heads with no porting but upgraded springs and retainers/locks -Comp Cam Xtreme Energy Hi-Lift .564"(does NOT purr like a kitten like they state it is rough as hell and only 10-12 lbs vaccum) -source roller rockers with spacers under stock Valve covers -6 pack intake/carbs rejetted with quick fuel plates & lighter springs -stock hp exhaust manifolds (had headers but went back to manifolds for car shows as it goes in stock class) -recurved electronic dist 20 initial and 38 total chrome MP box -3200 stall convertor in beefed up 727 -3.91 rear gears Here are my concerns: The car idles like crap very rough and all the tuning I have tried does not help but I can live with that. I know the cam is to blame and it worked good when I had headers on it but with the manifolds the car is all done at 5200-5400 rpm so the cam is TOO big for this combo now. So over the winter I want to swap in a new cam and I was going to go with the Mr Six pack cam but my engine guy brought up a good point as the car has dual springs on it and he would want to remove those to break the cam in so it does not take an early crap due to high spring preasure. That got me thinking does it make more sense to put that $300 roughly of labor to pull the springs and put them back on when broken in towards a roller setup instead? I did some looking and I am really liking the Lunati roller cam kit: https://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=4642&gid=365Has anyone had any experience with this or another roller cam kit? I think this one looks good from my combo as I want some major torque down low but also a little top end until those stock manifolds cut me off around 5500. is it a pretty straight forward conversion? Will I need new pushrods(have crane ones in there now), a new dist drive? Just wondered what I will all be looking at and if it is worth it to do the roller or just do the Mr Six pack cam? INPUT PLEASE!!
1969.5 A12 Bee EV2 1971 Charger RT 1973 Duster tubbed 500 low deck 10.90 monster 3 440 polara vert projects
|
|
|
Re: 440 stroker engine to roller cam or Mr Six pack cam??
[Re: vette1986]
#1881626
07/30/15 05:16 PM
07/30/15 05:16 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,042 Oregon
AndyF
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,042
Oregon
|
If your cam is the XE295HL then I'm not surprised. It isn't a super big cam but 251/257 at 050 on a 110 center will give you a rough idle even in a 500 inch motor. You should read the article I wrote a few years ago on cam testing in my '65 Coronet. Sounds like the same situation. The Mopar .528 solid would work pretty well for you but so would a ton of other cams. You just need to stay in the 235 to 245 range on the duration and keep the lobes spread out a bit to reduce overlap. http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/bb/Lobe.html
|
|
|
Re: 440 stroker engine to roller cam or Mr Six pack cam??
[Re: AndyF]
#1881630
07/30/15 05:30 PM
07/30/15 05:30 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,875 Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,875
Weddington, N.C.
|
I would put the cam in at 102 not 106 (comps are Typically +4) Ironically I'll bet you a 257/257 cam in at 102 would both idle better AND give you more power.
IMO, A late closing intake event (relative to the lobe size of course) combined with too small an @.050 lobe can turn even a decent headed 500" stroker into an Oldsmobile (all torque with not enough up top) type powerband. My stuffs on youtube, type in wizerulz.
I usually run at least 22-24 degrees of initial and 36 total on my street stroker stuff. And the Carb tuning makes a huge difference on strokers too. I like a Great (choppy but snappy) Idle and seriously quick throttle response on my stuff.
I've run that 251/257 Comp before on high 11 440" (stock stroke) motors with fairly tight converters and mid 3 gears, might want to dig a little further into the tune, chassis dyno with a good tuner would be money well-spent before tearing into it, after all you might only be treating the (wrong) symptom. 3200 stall (I'm assuming a 10") might drag down the low response as well, a good quality tight 3800 stall 9 1/2" would work better in a heavy B and drive out as well or better at part throttle.
also I suggest you compare tuning notes with Paul PHJ426, he has my old 508" RB with a six pack in a similar 71 Road Runner with a lot tighter gearing than your 3.91's, he LOVES it.
Last edited by Streetwize; 07/30/15 05:37 PM.
|
|
|
Re: 440 stroker engine to roller cam or Mr Six pack cam??
[Re: vette1986]
#1881654
07/30/15 05:56 PM
07/30/15 05:56 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
master
|
master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
|
Just call some one not named comp and order a cam for your combo.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
|
|
|
Re: 440 stroker engine to roller cam or Mr Six pack cam??
[Re: madscientist]
#1881753
07/30/15 09:23 PM
07/30/15 09:23 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916 usa
lewtot184
master
|
master
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916
usa
|
Just call some one not named comp and order a cam for your combo. bingo! good advice!
|
|
|
Re: 440 stroker engine to roller cam or Mr Six pack cam??
[Re: lewtot184]
#1881757
07/30/15 09:27 PM
07/30/15 09:27 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,267 North, Alabama
D-50
pro stock
|
pro stock
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,267
North, Alabama
|
Just call some one not named comp and order a cam for your combo. bingo! good advice! Call Bullet cams.........
1.33 60 ft,6.21 at 110.59 in the 1/8, pump gas small block,2950lbs,drag radials,mufflers and driven to track ...
|
|
|
Re: 440 stroker engine to roller cam or Mr Six pack cam??
[Re: vette1986]
#1882096
07/31/15 11:19 AM
07/31/15 11:19 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,491 Oologah, Oklahoma
Big Squeeze
pro stock
|
pro stock
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,491
Oologah, Oklahoma
|
The ONLY reason to run a Mr Six Pack cam is if you're building a car to run in Pure Stock AND plan on running at the front and will be tech'd...otherwise, there are plenty of cams out there that will idle smooth and make more power...I recommend Porter for a custom grind...802-951-1955
If you can't handle the truth, you're living a lie.......
|
|
|
Re: 440 stroker engine to roller cam or Mr Six pack cam??
[Re: Big Squeeze]
#1882132
07/31/15 12:05 PM
07/31/15 12:05 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916 usa
lewtot184
master
|
master
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916
usa
|
The ONLY reason to run a Mr Six Pack cam is if you're building a car to run in Pure Stock AND plan on running at the front and will be tech'd...otherwise, there are plenty of cams out there that will idle smooth and make more power...I recommend Porter for a custom grind...802-951-1955 more good advice.
|
|
|
Re: 440 stroker engine to roller cam or Mr Six pack cam??
[Re: vette1986]
#1882142
07/31/15 12:19 PM
07/31/15 12:19 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,051 The Great White North
RAMM
super stock
|
super stock
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,051
The Great White North
|
I did some looking and I am really liking the Lunati roller cam kit: https://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=4642&gid=365Has anyone had any experience with this or another roller cam kit? I think this one looks good from my combo as I want some major torque down low but also a little top end until those stock manifolds cut me off around 5500. is it a pretty straight forward conversion? Will I need new pushrods(have crane ones in there now), a new dist drive? Just wondered what I will all be looking at and if it is worth it to do the roller or just do the Mr Six pack cam? INPUT PLEASE!! The Lunati cam you have picked would make you very very happy. I have used the small block counterpart of that cam in a 360 and it has tons of vacuum, almost stock idle and pulls everywhere up until about 5800 rpm. If you are leaning towards a roller then go this way. If not, there are plenty of hydraulic flat tappets that can do what you are asking as well. J.Rob
2009 PHR\EMC Competitor 2010 PHR\EMC Competitor 2011 PHR\EMC Competitor 2012 PHR\EMC Competitor 2013 PHR\EMC Competitor 2014 HotRod/EMC Competitor 2015 HotRod/EMC NoShow 2016 HotRod/EMC 3rd place SPEC Bigblock 2018 HotRod/EMC 7th place G3
|
|
|
Re: 440 stroker engine to roller cam or Mr Six pack cam??
[Re: 70VcodeCoronetRT]
#1882248
07/31/15 02:43 PM
07/31/15 02:43 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,723 Moved to N.E. Tennessee
GomangoCuda
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,723
Moved to N.E. Tennessee
|
And I wanted a cam with excellent vacuum for the six pack to work good. Why do you think you need "excellent vacuum" for the six pack?
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
|
|
|
Re: 440 stroker engine to roller cam or Mr Six pack cam??
[Re: GomangoCuda]
#1882341
07/31/15 04:59 PM
07/31/15 04:59 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,347 Wahoo Nebr
vette1986
OP
pro stock
|
OP
pro stock
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,347
Wahoo Nebr
|
[/quote] Why do you think you need "excellent vacuum" for the six pack?[/quote]
Don't underestimate vacuum on a street engine. Never thought much about it until I did not have any and it is a BI$$$ tuning a 6 pack without a good solid vacuum level, plus when you run pb, a/c, and other access. it can get real hard without it!!
1969.5 A12 Bee EV2 1971 Charger RT 1973 Duster tubbed 500 low deck 10.90 monster 3 440 polara vert projects
|
|
|
Re: 440 stroker engine to roller cam or Mr Six pack cam??
[Re: vette1986]
#1882353
07/31/15 05:13 PM
07/31/15 05:13 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,285 West Coast, USA
jbc426
master
|
master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,285
West Coast, USA
|
My Indy EZ headed 493" six pack motor idles at 6" of vacuum, has power brakes that work flawlessly and a Promax modified mechanical outboard six pack set-up that was tuned on the road with a wide band. It makes all its power below 6000 rpm, so it has a relatively smallish cam.
The wide band tuning made all the difference with finding the jetting it wanted.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's 1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
|
|
|
Re: 440 stroker engine to roller cam or Mr Six pack cam??
[Re: GomangoCuda]
#1882404
07/31/15 06:35 PM
07/31/15 06:35 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916 usa
lewtot184
master
|
master
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916
usa
|
And I wanted a cam with excellent vacuum for the six pack to work good. Why do you think you need "excellent vacuum" for the six pack? bingo! another winner!
|
|
|
|
|