Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
440 stroker engine to roller cam or Mr Six pack cam?? #1881571
07/30/15 02:40 PM
07/30/15 02:40 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,333
USA
vette1986 Offline OP
pro stock
vette1986  Offline OP
pro stock

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,333
USA
Hello guys,
I need some input here as I have been driving my 71 charger rt for a couple years now probably 1500-2000 miles total and from time to time when it is warmed up I can here a light ticking from valvetrain and the car does seem to be down on power from when I first got it out.

Here are the specs:
-440 stroker with 440 source 500 inch stroker kit
-9.8 to 1 comp
-stealth heads with no porting but upgraded springs and retainers/locks
-Comp Cam Xtreme Energy Hi-Lift .564"(does NOT purr like a kitten like they state it is rough as hell and only 10-12 lbs vaccum)
-source roller rockers with spacers under stock Valve covers
-6 pack intake/carbs rejetted with quick fuel plates & lighter springs
-stock hp exhaust manifolds (had headers but went back to manifolds for car shows as it goes in stock class)
-recurved electronic dist 20 initial and 38 total chrome MP box
-3200 stall convertor in beefed up 727
-3.91 rear gears

Here are my concerns:
The car idles like crap very rough and all the tuning I have tried does not help but I can live with that. I know the cam is to blame and it worked good when I had headers on it but with the manifolds the car is all done at 5200-5400 rpm so the cam is TOO big for this combo now.

So over the winter I want to swap in a new cam and I was going to go with the Mr Six pack cam but my engine guy brought up a good point as the car has dual springs on it and he would want to remove those to break the cam in so it does not take an early crap due to high spring preasure. That got me thinking does it make more sense to put that $300 roughly of labor to pull the springs and put them back on when broken in towards a roller setup instead? I did some looking and I am really liking the Lunati roller cam kit: https://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=4642&gid=365

Has anyone had any experience with this or another roller cam kit? I think this one looks good from my combo as I want some major torque down low but also a little top end until those stock manifolds cut me off around 5500. is it a pretty straight forward conversion? Will I need new pushrods(have crane ones in there now), a new dist drive? Just wondered what I will all be looking at and if it is worth it to do the roller or just do the Mr Six pack cam?

INPUT PLEASE!! up


Too Many Projects!!
Re: 440 stroker engine to roller cam or Mr Six pack cam?? [Re: vette1986] #1881626
07/30/15 04:16 PM
07/30/15 04:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,970
Oregon
A
AndyF Offline
Too Many Posts
AndyF  Offline
Too Many Posts
A

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,970
Oregon
If your cam is the XE295HL then I'm not surprised. It isn't a super big cam but 251/257 at 050 on a 110 center will give you a rough idle even in a 500 inch motor.

You should read the article I wrote a few years ago on cam testing in my '65 Coronet. Sounds like the same situation. The Mopar .528 solid would work pretty well for you but so would a ton of other cams. You just need to stay in the 235 to 245 range on the duration and keep the lobes spread out a bit to reduce overlap.

http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/bb/Lobe.html

Re: 440 stroker engine to roller cam or Mr Six pack cam?? [Re: AndyF] #1881630
07/30/15 04:30 PM
07/30/15 04:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,622
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize Offline
master
Streetwize  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,622
Weddington, N.C.
I would put the cam in at 102 not 106 (comps are Typically +4) Ironically I'll bet you a 257/257 cam in at 102 would both idle better AND give you more power.

IMO, A late closing intake event (relative to the lobe size of course) combined with too small an @.050 lobe can turn even a decent headed 500" stroker into an Oldsmobile (all torque with not enough up top) type powerband. My stuffs on youtube, type in wizerulz.

I usually run at least 22-24 degrees of initial and 36 total on my street stroker stuff. And the Carb tuning makes a huge difference on strokers too. I like a Great (choppy but snappy) Idle and seriously quick throttle response on my stuff.

I've run that 251/257 Comp before on high 11 440" (stock stroke) motors with fairly tight converters and mid 3 gears, might want to dig a little further into the tune, chassis dyno with a good tuner would be money well-spent before tearing into it, after all you might only be treating the (wrong) symptom. 3200 stall (I'm assuming a 10") might drag down the low response as well, a good quality tight 3800 stall 9 1/2" would work better in a heavy B and drive out as well or better at part throttle.

also I suggest you compare tuning notes with Paul PHJ426, he has my old 508" RB with a six pack in a similar 71 Road Runner with a lot tighter gearing than your 3.91's, he LOVES it.


Last edited by Streetwize; 07/30/15 04:37 PM.

WIZE

World's Quickest Diahatsu Rocky (??) 414" Stroker Small block Mopar Powered. 10.84 @ 123...and gettin' quicker!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mWzLma3YGI

In Car:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjXcf95e6v0
Re: 440 stroker engine to roller cam or Mr Six pack cam?? [Re: vette1986] #1881654
07/30/15 04:56 PM
07/30/15 04:56 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,019
Washington
M
madscientist Offline
master
madscientist  Offline
master
M

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,019
Washington
Just call some one not named comp and order a cam for your combo.


Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
Re: 440 stroker engine to roller cam or Mr Six pack cam?? [Re: madscientist] #1881753
07/30/15 08:23 PM
07/30/15 08:23 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,274
usa
L
lewtot184 Offline
master
lewtot184  Offline
master
L

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,274
usa
Originally Posted By madscientist
Just call some one not named comp and order a cam for your combo.
bingo! good advice!

Re: 440 stroker engine to roller cam or Mr Six pack cam?? [Re: lewtot184] #1881757
07/30/15 08:27 PM
07/30/15 08:27 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,267
North, Alabama
D-50 Offline
pro stock
D-50  Offline
pro stock

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,267
North, Alabama
Originally Posted By lewtot184
Originally Posted By madscientist
Just call some one not named comp and order a cam for your combo.
bingo! good advice!


Call Bullet cams.........


1.33 60 ft,6.21 at 110.59 in the 1/8, pump gas small block,2950lbs,drag radials,mufflers and driven to track ...
Re: 440 stroker engine to roller cam or Mr Six pack cam?? [Re: vette1986] #1882079
07/31/15 09:37 AM
07/31/15 09:37 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,446
Nebraska
4
4406forPOWER Offline
pro stock
4406forPOWER  Offline
pro stock
4

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,446
Nebraska
I'm putting a Mr Six pack cam in my 496 6 pack. I know it's way too small for this motor. But I don't plan on doing any racing with it at all. And I wanted a cam with excellent vacuum for the six pack to work good. I've heard nothing but good things about them. Should have mine done by mid September. I'll let you know how I like it. up

Last edited by 4406forPOWER; 07/31/15 09:41 AM.
Re: 440 stroker engine to roller cam or Mr Six pack cam?? [Re: vette1986] #1882096
07/31/15 10:19 AM
07/31/15 10:19 AM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,483
Oologah, Oklahoma
Big Squeeze Offline
pro stock
Big Squeeze  Offline
pro stock

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,483
Oologah, Oklahoma
The ONLY reason to run a Mr Six Pack cam is if you're building a car to run in Pure Stock AND plan on running at the front and will be tech'd...otherwise, there are plenty of cams out there that will idle smooth and make more power...I recommend Porter for a custom grind...802-951-1955


If you can't handle the truth, you're living a lie.......
Re: 440 stroker engine to roller cam or Mr Six pack cam?? [Re: Big Squeeze] #1882132
07/31/15 11:05 AM
07/31/15 11:05 AM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,274
usa
L
lewtot184 Offline
master
lewtot184  Offline
master
L

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,274
usa
Originally Posted By Big Squeeze
The ONLY reason to run a Mr Six Pack cam is if you're building a car to run in Pure Stock AND plan on running at the front and will be tech'd...otherwise, there are plenty of cams out there that will idle smooth and make more power...I recommend Porter for a custom grind...802-951-1955
more good advice.

Re: 440 stroker engine to roller cam or Mr Six pack cam?? [Re: lewtot184] #1882137
07/31/15 11:13 AM
07/31/15 11:13 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,622
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize Offline
master
Streetwize  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,622
Weddington, N.C.
I agree Dwayne Porter will certainly get you a great custom grind.

That said the 251/257 Comp you have shouldn't and won't be a bad choice for a Hydraulic flat tappet for the powerband you're looking for. Or I'll say you can do a heck of lot worse. As I said I've used that very grind and have seen even stock stroke 440" 4000 pound cars/W driver (in this case a 70 Charger) run consistant high 11's @ 114 with a tight converter and 3.23 (!!!) gears with it. it's easy to slam the Comp cams tech guys, but like the saying goes..."even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now than then"


WIZE

World's Quickest Diahatsu Rocky (??) 414" Stroker Small block Mopar Powered. 10.84 @ 123...and gettin' quicker!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mWzLma3YGI

In Car:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjXcf95e6v0
Re: 440 stroker engine to roller cam or Mr Six pack cam?? [Re: vette1986] #1882142
07/31/15 11:19 AM
07/31/15 11:19 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,026
The Great White North
RAMM Offline
super stock
RAMM  Offline
super stock

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,026
The Great White North
Originally Posted By vette1986
I did some looking and I am really liking the Lunati roller cam kit: https://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=4642&gid=365

Has anyone had any experience with this or another roller cam kit? I think this one looks good from my combo as I want some major torque down low but also a little top end until those stock manifolds cut me off around 5500. is it a pretty straight forward conversion? Will I need new pushrods(have crane ones in there now), a new dist drive? Just wondered what I will all be looking at and if it is worth it to do the roller or just do the Mr Six pack cam?

INPUT PLEASE!! up



The Lunati cam you have picked would make you very very happy. I have used the small block counterpart of that cam in a 360 and it has tons of vacuum, almost stock idle and pulls everywhere up until about 5800 rpm. If you are leaning towards a roller then go this way. If not, there are plenty of hydraulic flat tappets that can do what you are asking as well. J.Rob


2009 PHR\EMC Competitor
2010 PHR\EMC Competitor
2011 PHR\EMC Competitor
2012 PHR\EMC Competitor
2013 PHR\EMC Competitor
2014 HotRod/EMC Competitor
2015 HotRod/EMC NoShow
2016 HotRod/EMC 3rd place SPEC Bigblock
2018 HotRod/EMC 7th place G3
Re: 440 stroker engine to roller cam or Mr Six pack cam?? [Re: 4406forPOWER] #1882248
07/31/15 01:43 PM
07/31/15 01:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,837
Moved to N.E. Tennessee
GomangoCuda Offline
master
GomangoCuda  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,837
Moved to N.E. Tennessee
Originally Posted By 4406forPOWER
And I wanted a cam with excellent vacuum for the six pack to work good.

Why do you think you need "excellent vacuum" for the six pack?


In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
Re: 440 stroker engine to roller cam or Mr Six pack cam?? [Re: GomangoCuda] #1882341
07/31/15 03:59 PM
07/31/15 03:59 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,333
USA
vette1986 Offline OP
pro stock
vette1986  Offline OP
pro stock

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,333
USA
[/quote]
Why do you think you need "excellent vacuum" for the six pack?[/quote]

Don't underestimate vacuum on a street engine. Never thought much about it until I did not have any and it is a BI$$$ tuning a 6 pack without a good solid vacuum level, plus when you run pb, a/c, and other access. it can get real hard without it!!


Too Many Projects!!
Re: 440 stroker engine to roller cam or Mr Six pack cam?? [Re: vette1986] #1882353
07/31/15 04:13 PM
07/31/15 04:13 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,052
West Coast, USA
jbc426 Offline
master
jbc426  Offline
master

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,052
West Coast, USA
My Indy EZ headed 493" six pack motor idles at 6" of vacuum, has power brakes that work flawlessly and a Promax modified mechanical outboard six pack set-up that was tuned on the road with a wide band. It makes all its power below 6000 rpm, so it has a relatively smallish cam.

The wide band tuning made all the difference with finding the jetting it wanted.


1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 3.91's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
Re: 440 stroker engine to roller cam or Mr Six pack cam?? [Re: GomangoCuda] #1882404
07/31/15 05:35 PM
07/31/15 05:35 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,274
usa
L
lewtot184 Offline
master
lewtot184  Offline
master
L

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,274
usa
Originally Posted By GomangoCuda
Originally Posted By 4406forPOWER
And I wanted a cam with excellent vacuum for the six pack to work good.

Why do you think you need "excellent vacuum" for the six pack?
bingo! another winner!

Re: 440 stroker engine to roller cam or Mr Six pack cam?? [Re: lewtot184] #1882599
07/31/15 11:28 PM
07/31/15 11:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664
IN
A
ahy Offline
master
ahy  Offline
master
A

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664
IN
A comment on the "ticking". A small exhaust leak can sound a lot like a valvetrain/lifter problem. Are you sure you have a valvetrain tick?

Also, the roller helps in some areas like less sensitivity to break-in and lube oil and spring pressure... but has its drawbacks also with fast wear on the bronze OP gear usually needed and lifter life sometimes... not to mention cost.

Since you are not really pushing lift and don't need to push spring pressure something like the "528" Mopar flat tappet would work well. With that a single spring should be fine... similar to what comes stock with Ed RPM or Stealth heads.

Re: 440 stroker engine to roller cam or Mr Six pack cam?? [Re: vette1986] #1882607
07/31/15 11:38 PM
07/31/15 11:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,410
Balt. Md
3
383man Offline
Too Many Posts
383man  Offline
Too Many Posts
3

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,410
Balt. Md
Another vote for Dwayne Porter. I run one of his custom solid flat tappet cams he speced for me and I love it. It works just as I wanted. Ron







Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1