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Re: Cracked Mains W/ Aluminum Caps
[Re: 6bblFLASH]
#1884447
08/03/15 04:59 PM
08/03/15 04:59 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
madscientist
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
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Wow the bore looks rough. Especially for a moly ring.
Last edited by madscientist; 08/03/15 05:00 PM.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: Cracked Mains W/ Aluminum Caps
[Re: 6bblFLASH]
#1884512
08/03/15 06:54 PM
08/03/15 06:54 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
Sport440
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
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Piston/rings #4
Rings are free and side clearance OK.
Thought I would find damage. That bore does look a little rough. Id like to see what your ring gaps are measuring at now. They may be on the loose side. Your combo is running good being in the nines, at 3050# with the .mp 590. But it could be running 9.7,s IMO like ProSports old mp 590 3150# combo was running if she were to be sealed up abit.IMO
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Re: Cracked Mains W/ Aluminum Caps
[Re: 6bblFLASH]
#1884556
08/03/15 08:15 PM
08/03/15 08:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,373
fredericksburg,va
cudaman1969
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,373
fredericksburg,va
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Reason I asked about the mounting points, quite a few years back my good friend had a 64 Dodge Hemi light weight with the 4 speed, kept missing shifts, not every time but a lot. Different guys tried thinking it was him, same thing. Checked it all, couldn't put a finger on it till someone said its flexing, engine-trans. Had ears in front and just trans mount, so they put the mid plate in and no more missed shifts. Also was eating rod and occasionally main bearings, this got better too so I'm thinking the engine was flexing along with the bell and trans. Never proved it outright but worth some thought. Oh and with the mid plate he left the trans mount bolts loose. Good luck on your next build, if you're happy with those times keep the same parts. There will always be someone faster and someone slower, just keep having a good time. I never had a car that would stand up like that, I imagine it's quite a thrill.
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Re: Cracked Mains W/ Aluminum Caps
[Re: 6bblFLASH]
#1884560
08/03/15 08:24 PM
08/03/15 08:24 PM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 220
Jerry Kathe
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 220
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The discoloration above the oil ring on the piston is extreme. Its getting combustion leakage past both compression rings and oil from the other side. Its not sealed and I don’t believe it ever was. The cylinder finish was incorrect for these rings, plain old cast rings would have worked better. Do you know the cylinder/piston sizes yet?
I get opinions will vary and every body has one Monte….but a few key points here based on the photos and circumstances of what the OP presented.
1. It turns out to be only a 446….in no way is power killing that block with those heads and that cam.
2. The photos do not support enough evidence of detonation damage to crack this block. Detonation will leave some physical damage to other key parts if it has the energy to crack a block.
3. Filling a gray iron block and filling a nickel, ductile fortified cast block yields different results, gray iron is about the worst casting material out there for high stress.
4. Filling to the bottom of the freeze plug does squat for strengthening the cylinder and helping ring seal….the top ~2” is what needs the help. That low fill isn’t helping with ring seal or making power in any way……but what it is doing is reducing the ability for this thing to flex/move…..inducing stress failure.
5. Hard block is a good product…but read line 4 again……
6. This thing evidently cracked when fired up from winter storage….pretty sure the power/load wouldn’t make the grade for any type of detonation to occur – lol. Thermal change when fired up from winter storage, possibly at a quick rate is what I believe cracked this block.
7. Aluminum caps ain’t where it’s at……but we can leave that as my opinion only……
6bblFLASH; You have several issues here to work with and make significant improvements if you so choose, but honestly – I would simply start fresh with a good block and go to a reputable shop specializing in PERFORMANCE machine work. The precision is worth the cost. I agree, It DID perform well for the components involved and even considering the other issues, I think it will probably surprise you when its all fixed. This probably doesn’t need mentioned….but make sure those pistons are not dimensionally damaged. You may find some rolled skirts, if you do, don’t match bore the new block to those pistons, start with all new stuff, cheaper in the long run.
Good luck, maybe see you around the Ohio area.
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Re: Cracked Mains W/ Aluminum Caps
[Re: Jerry Kathe]
#1884636
08/03/15 09:57 PM
08/03/15 09:57 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,318
State of confusion
Thumperdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,318
State of confusion
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The discoloration above the oil ring on the piston is extreme. Its getting combustion leakage past both compression rings and oil from the other side. Its not sealed and I don’t believe it ever was. The cylinder finish was incorrect for these rings, plain old cast rings would have worked better. Do you know the cylinder/piston sizes yet?
I get opinions will vary and every body has one Monte….but a few key points here based on the photos and circumstances of what the OP presented.
1. It turns out to be only a 446….in no way is power killing that block with those heads and that cam.
2. The photos do not support enough evidence of detonation damage to crack this block. Detonation will leave some physical damage to other key parts if it has the energy to crack a block.
3. Filling a gray iron block and filling a nickel, ductile fortified cast block yields different results, gray iron is about the worst casting material out there for high stress.
4. Filling to the bottom of the freeze plug does squat for strengthening the cylinder and helping ring seal….the top ~2” is what needs the help. That low fill isn’t helping with ring seal or making power in any way……but what it is doing is reducing the ability for this thing to flex/move…..inducing stress failure.
5. Hard block is a good product…but read line 4 again……
6. This thing evidently cracked when fired up from winter storage….pretty sure the power/load wouldn’t make the grade for any type of detonation to occur – lol. Thermal change when fired up from winter storage, possibly at a quick rate is what I believe cracked this block.
7. Aluminum caps ain’t where it’s at……but we can leave that as my opinion only……
6bblFLASH; You have several issues here to work with and make significant improvements if you so choose, but honestly – I would simply start fresh with a good block and go to a reputable shop specializing in PERFORMANCE machine work. The precision is worth the cost. I agree, It DID perform well for the components involved and even considering the other issues, I think it will probably surprise you when its all fixed. This probably doesn’t need mentioned….but make sure those pistons are not dimensionally damaged. You may find some rolled skirts, if you do, don’t match bore the new block to those pistons, start with all new stuff, cheaper in the long run.
Good luck, maybe see you around the Ohio area.
You have some very valid points and obviously there`s no load at idle as you "lol"..........that`s a no brainer cos the damage was already done. I was testing at Fontana a few years ago and ran a 10.03 w/my tune up and for giggles went w/Holleys wacked tune up and boom....17.1 afr`s and slowed to 10.50 just like that w/no piston damage we could see. "lol"
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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Re: Cracked Mains W/ Aluminum Caps
[Re: AndyF]
#1884768
08/04/15 01:18 AM
08/04/15 01:18 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,842
N.E. Ohio
6bblFLASH
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,842
N.E. Ohio
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Umm, hate to be rude but that inside of that motor looks horrible! That valley area looks like it came out of a '75 Vega or an old Checker cab. Better check your evac system since I don't think it is working. . Must be the way it photographed with the sun glare. Couldn't be any cleaner.
70` Cuda`,440 6BBL Jerico,Dana 4.56 Still on 93 Pump Gas
9.87 @ 136/1.31-60ft.`09 Mopar Nationals PASSON PERFORMANCE "Stick-Shift" Champ!
2013 StickShift Challenge Winner@ Mopar Nationals!
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Re: Cracked Mains W/ Aluminum Caps
[Re: 6bblFLASH]
#1884787
08/04/15 02:05 AM
08/04/15 02:05 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
Sport440
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
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Umm, hate to be rude but that inside of that motor looks horrible! That valley area looks like it came out of a '75 Vega or an old Checker cab. Better check your evac system since I don't think it is working. . Must be the way it photographed with the sun glare. Couldn't be any cleaner. I will back you up on this, Some of the pics look dark oil stained but, others show Clean as can be. Its the lighting, im sure. The lighting from the crank side , super clean. The lighting from the intake valley is dark and looks pretty dirty. Put some light on it and Im sure it will look just as clean as the crank side.
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