1989 Shelby dakota won'start
#1871395
07/16/15 07:00 AM
07/16/15 07:00 AM
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 134 san antonio, Texas
moparrush
OP
member
|
OP
member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 134
san antonio, Texas
|
Before i get slammed with everything obvious let me just say ive had multiple mechanic friens look it over and niether i or they have been able to figure out the problem. Now the problem. My shelby will turn over but will not start. I'm getting absolutely no spark to the plugs. I just rebuilt the motor, trans, etc.. so just about everything is new or rebuilt. Since the problem arose i have replaced the coil, new distributor, new plugs, wires, relays, new fuel pump etc... still no spark. Ihave managed to purchase three shelby dakota computers and have tried switching all of them hoping for something still no luck. There are many many net post of these 1st gen dakota's just up and dying like this and everyone talks about the same identical problem i am experiencing, and it doesnt seem to matter what engine combo it has. They all talk about the same problem as I have. Only problem after reading allthe blog posts no one ever states/writes what they ever found to be the problem. So if anybody here has an idea or has experienced this same issue please post what you did to finally get it running again. Thanks members and moparts for any help you can offer.
|
|
|
Re: 1989 Shelby dakota won'start
[Re: moparrush]
#1871738
07/16/15 06:54 PM
07/16/15 06:54 PM
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 134 san antonio, Texas
moparrush
OP
member
|
OP
member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 134
san antonio, Texas
|
The truck was taken down a year ago to do a full on resto. It did run before. I did not pull the existing wiring harness out of either the engine bay or dash area. That would have been above my pay grade for this resto. So I just went through the wiring checked connections, wire condition, and verified resistance to ensure that it was as solid as it could be. Now to answer some of these responses. The crank shaft sensor is actually in the distributor in these early computer models using an eye system that monitored the cranks position by the rotation of the distributor. So yes I thought to maybe I was a 180 degrees out so we checked that too. Even with it turned around still no spark. The codes that I managed to pull were miscellaneous codes in regards to the catalytic converter, and some other stuff that would not keep it from starting. I could be off though seeing how I was doing the engine light counting technique to figure out what the codes were. Hard to find someone with an OBD 1 reader these days. Even the dealership doesn't want to mess with it. As far as the gauge cluster goes I'm not going to say it's nuts or anything but it was untouched during the disassembly and worked fine before the truck was taken down. So I'm not sure that would be the issue. A lot of what I have read points to some faulty wiring which affects the ASD (auto shutdown) relay. Poor splicing from the factory, and too much tied into the splices going to this relay. Not sure how to tackle that other than to rebuild the harness, which would suck but if it comes to it than so be it. I have gone through every ground and cleaned, greased, and verified ground contacts. I'm going to tow it down to another buddy's shop today who came up with an OBD 1 scanner and can reflash the computer if it needs it. He can see how frustrated I am that I have a freshly rebuilt truck and can't even get the damn thing started. Oh and yes I verified the ignition and neutral safety switches. Like I said it will turn over in Park and Neutral, but doesn't send spark to the plugs. I almost threw my timing light away thinking it was bad at first till I realized there just wasn't any signal from the distributor to make the light work. Well thanks again for all the input, and keep em coming to maybe give me some direction I haven't looked at yet.
|
|
|
Re: 1989 Shelby dakota won'start
[Re: moparrush]
#1871831
07/16/15 08:46 PM
07/16/15 08:46 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,018 Missouri
MOBodyman
super stock
|
super stock
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,018
Missouri
|
Hmmmm, I bought 2 of these trucks new, kept them for about 20 years each, and if they had a good battery in them, they always started and ran.
One was fairly low mileage when I sold it and it still had all the original ignition components, including the spark plugs.
The other one got new plugs in it once in awhile and a complete tune-up at 100k, basically new plugs, wires, cap, & rotor. At that time I also replaced the original belts, hoses, and front brakes and rotors. It had 180k+ when I sold it and still ran like new, still had the original computer in it too. I did have to replace a relay and a piece on the throttle body on that truck. Also the a/c compressor.
The ONE thing I always did was use genuine Mopar parts, especially electronic components.
I also had a bunch of fwd Shelby cars (bought used) and I found most starting problems were caused by using aftermarket electronic components.
I would start suspecting one of your new parts may be defective. However, I'm a bodyman, not a mechanic so my advice may only be worth what I've charged for it.
Good luck & be sure to post the solution, Dallas
2012 Rallye Redline Challenger, 1st new car! 2010 Ram 1500 4wd HEMI-hauler 2014 Dodge Dart-gas saver 4 projects and a bunch of parts cars, losing interest since buying the Challenger lol 1969 Dodge Coronet 500-'gonna fix 'er up someday!'
|
|
|
Re: 1989 Shelby dakota won'start
[Re: moparrush]
#1872034
07/17/15 12:01 AM
07/17/15 12:01 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,558 Freeport IL USA
poorboy
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,558
Freeport IL USA
|
Early Dakota had a problem with the power wire from the ignition switch breaking off one of the 4 or 5 wires from the splice. That splice is located in the underhood harness where it makes the turn around the brake booster. (I forget which side of the brake booster its on, but I believe its the engine side.) The splice in question is pink wires with a blue tracer (or blue with pink tracer). It comes from the ignition switch and splices the power for the crank sensor, the throttle position sensor, the dist pickup, and the coil (and something else). When you locate the splice in the harness, the splice will have that green battery cable look to it. there are 3 wires on one end and 3 or 4 wires on the other end. You may have to untape the splice. One or more of the wires is probably broken off at the terminal splice. I've seen this on 3-4 Dakota trucks. It often bites when you try to start it, but I've seen it shut down running trucks. Crank all day long, no spark, no codes, no voltage to one or more of the engine monitoring systems. The computer won't pick anything up because as far as its concerned, your not doing anything to the truck.
Just for your info, often the rest of the wiring harness looks great, except that one splice. Gene
|
|
|
Re: 1989 Shelby dakota won'start
[Re: moparrush]
#1872076
07/17/15 12:49 AM
07/17/15 12:49 AM
|
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 15 Downingtown, PA
RobMopar
member
|
member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 15
Downingtown, PA
|
Have you checked/replaced the auto shutdown relay? I haven't had one fail on My Shelby Dak, but I did experience it in a 2.5L '89 Daytona.
I think the relay is the same pin-out as the fan relay. Could try swapping them across to see if it starts.
Rob McCall - President, Delaware Valley Mopar Association
|
|
|
Re: 1989 Shelby dakota won'start?
[Re: moparrush]
#1872301
07/17/15 01:52 PM
07/17/15 01:52 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345 Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
Too Many Posts
|
Too Many Posts
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
|
I'm not familiar with how the OBD-I systems operate, but on the OBD-II the ASD relay controls the entire fuel/ignition system. shuts it down in the case of a crash to turn off the fuel pump and reduce risk of spark from charged electronics.
On OBD-II as soon as the computer sees the crank is not turning, it turns everything off after about 2 seconds. you can confirm it works by turning key on. you should hear the fuel pump prime for 2 seconds, then shuts off until the computer sees crank rotation.
9 times out of 10, when the ASD stops working, it's because the crank position sensor is no longer working, or there's a short/bad ground in the harness somewhere, so start checking sensors and wires.
Personal story: took the wife out in the truck for a date night. before we left she asked "is it reliable? it won't break down on us?" this is after a new engine had been in for months, driven to New Jersey and back, and never had a hiccup. At midnight on the way home, everything went dead. gauges wouldn't respond, scanner couldn't even read the computer. Turns out on assembly, I pinched a wire on the crank position sensor in the distributor cap. while the insulation was not broke or cut, it eventually grounded out against the distributor body and killed everything. as soon as I un-pinched the wire (after hours of checking sensors, computer, etc.) a buddy of mine told me to check the wires to the crank sensor. truck started right up like normal as soon as the wire was un-pinched. I replaced the sensor for good measure and it's been fine since.
Another time, a small, 12 ga wire from the core support to battery negative had worked itself loose in the crimp. truck would randomly not start. found it while holding the key in 'start' while someone was wiggling wires and when they touched that one, it fired right up.
Also I've seen where every ground was connected but the ONE ground by the power steering pump. it was off to remove the intake and I was trying to do a compression test. hooked that wire back to ground and it worked flawless.
So...moral of the stories...on these fuel injected, computer controlled trucks, check everything on the harness and sensors, and check for all your grounds!
it can be frustrating and take a lot of time, you'll start to feel helpless like you'll never find it. Then it's usually dumb luck, you find it, and you get a rush of relief, followed by "I can't believe something that simple took me so much effort to find and fix"
Good luck!
**Photobucket sucks**
|
|
|
Re: 1989 Shelby dakota won'start?
[Re: moparrush]
#1874846
07/21/15 01:22 AM
07/21/15 01:22 AM
|
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 12,481 Chino Valley
RodStRace
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 12,481
Chino Valley
|
Yep, check the grounds! Also, you can check the power to the coil to make sure it's not on the power side. These use the computer to 'trigger' the spark by controlling the ground side. Pin 12 of the smaller PCM connector in this 88 full size wiring diagram. Hopefully, you have the factory info for the Shelby. http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/ASEMas...ing_diagram.gif
|
|
|
Re: 1989 Shelby dakota won'start?
[Re: moparrush]
#1875768
07/22/15 02:29 PM
07/22/15 02:29 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,869 Carmichael, CA
NotEnufGarage
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,869
Carmichael, CA
|
I'm having a similar problem with my '89 Shelby Dakota. I had it running for a while, then replaced plugs, wire, cap, rotor and no start. I had fuel and spark. Replaced the hall effect sensor in the distributor and still no start. I'm in the process of replacing the ignition switch and I've unbundled the engine wiring harness from left fender to right fender looking for broken wire or bad splices. No luck, so far.
Poorboy - I haven't see the splice you're talking about, so far. Is it possibly close to the engine itself where the wire break off to go to the crank sensor, MAP sensor, TPS, etc.?
'70 Charger FE5 Daytona Clone 451/727/D60 '70 Challenger FM3 440/833/3.55SG '79 Ramcharger SE 360 '89 Shelby Dakota β06 PT Cruiser GT Convertible β07 Charger R/T Daytona β10 Ram 1500 ST Crew Cab
Yes, I'm a Dodge Boy. Verstehen?
|
|
|
Re: 1989 Shelby dakota won'start?
[Re: moparrush]
#1876205
07/22/15 11:46 PM
07/22/15 11:46 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,558 Freeport IL USA
poorboy
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,558
Freeport IL USA
|
Its been a few years, but the splice I'm talking about is located right in the brake booster area. I'm just not sure which side of the booster it is on. It is a splice, factory taped, either pink wires with a blue tracer, or it is blue wires with a pink tracer (I really think mine were pink). There are 3 or 4 wires (all are small wires probably 18G) on one end and 4 or 5 on the other end. The wires all joined at this splice then ran to each sensor individually. these are small wires, and I suppose they could have each broken individually, but I would follow back to the splice. You need to open up the corrugated plastic, locate the bundle of pink/blue wires, remove the factory black tape and pull on each wire to see which one or how many are broken off. On all 3 trucks I encountered, this issue, every one had bad corrosion (the terminal had a green power tint like battery corrosion to it). Those wires supply ignition voltage to the cam sensor, the crank sensor, the dist hall effect piece, the coil, and the computer (I think), and something else. If any of those sensors do not have voltage to them with the key on, this splice is your problem, but one of the trucks had voltage, but it was lower then normal voltage (probably due to the corrosion).
The only factory service manual I have here is an 87, and those were still carburetor fed motors, so this splice is not shown. I suppose you can open up your harness, start at the coil, or cam sensor, or dist pickup wires and follow the wires to the splice near the brake booster.
I removed the factory splice piece, stripped all the wires and re-spliced them again with one connector, then taped everything up and we were good to go. Gene
Last edited by poorboy; 07/22/15 11:48 PM.
|
|
|
|
|