I'm painting a 64 Valiant for a friend and he bought Shopline paint. I laid down a coat last weekend and had random fisheyes in several areas. I sanded the car and laid down some primer sealer. ZERO defects. It laid down clean everywhere, though I had a few rough finish areas and had to sand them smooth before applying paint. I mixed more paint, THIS time a different color, (Still Shopline brand) and got more fisheyes in random areas. I googled "Fisheyes in paint: Causes" and one strange cause is deodorant.
Huh?
It seems that most gel type deodorants have a component that can cause fisheyes. I don't know if this is what is causing my problem though. The primer went on fine. Maybe primer is more resistant to fisheyes?
My friend and I have been wracking our brains trying to determine the root cause. Tack rags? Airborne specs or silicones? The actual paint itself? I'm spraying in an enclosed garage with box fans to extract the fumes. Plastic sheeting on the walls and ceiling to minimize dust. Water traps in the air supply line. We have tried isolating issues like using different paint guns, cleaning the gun with reducer instead of acetone, I wear latex gloves after washing the car to avoid skin oil contamination....
The next test is to spray the hood with primer following with paint...NO sanding or tack rags. I'm suggesting we spray one side with Shopline and the other with some leftover Omni paint I have here. If the Shopline has fisheyes and the Omni does not, at least we can narrow it down to the paint being the problem.
Anyone have a helpful suggestion? Thanks!

I ain't a paint guy so this is strickly a BTT for ya since you ain't getting any love on this Q but I'm thinking contamination of some sort on the surface being painted (tack rag or???) & they always say prep is 90% (or more) of a successfull outcome. the little bit of rattle can painting I do I prep the surface like I'm doing surgery, nothing touches that ain't supposed to & I brake kleen/wax grease remover everything squeaky clean. Holler how it turns out

Are you using a filter at the air supply to the paint gun to catch any oils that may be in the air line?

I always use a disposable in line filter right at the gun, and change it for each paint job.

I am by no means an expert at painting, but to date I have never had any fisheye issues.

It sounds like you are cleaning and tack clothing the body before painting, and taking all the other precautions.

Hopefully no Armor All or like such substance anywhere close in the neighborhood. If so fisheyes are guaranteed.

fisheyes are not noticeable or common in primer, It dries fast and the paint doesn't have time to move away from the contaminate, like it does in topcoat.

Things that cause them are many... oil or water in air line, silicone anywhere in the area, antifreeze, etc...

It is very difficult to repair as well.
Try cleaning the area with solvent, the wet-sand until the water stops beading up in that area.
You are also going to need to use a sealer paint ( 2 part), then refinish.

start with light dry coats, let each coat dry, then bump up the paint quantity if it looks good, until it is fixed.

Ventilation/heating/AC system in your painting area hopefully is not shared with any other part of the structure where painting is being done.

Example detail shop where Armor All or other such sprays are being applied, or spray on suntan lotions or cooking PAM in a home is shared with garage.

Some homes have have furnace in garage with attendant blower motors. Not the best idea thinking of carbon monoxide threat and all!


Filtration system/oil removal on sprayer air line is beyond reproach? Air compressor drained of water after each use.

I got smoked with the same scenario years ago. Primers laid down fine, the lacquer base laid down fine, but the 2k clear would fisheye. Pulled my hair out, but after wet sanding and re clearing 3 times I finally figured out it was the air hose I was using. Try a new air hose!.

Dan.

Just goes to show that there are a ton of causes of the dreaded fisheye!
As said, everything is suspect until proven clean and problem free.

as said, there are many causes for fish eyes. I have an employee that could not paint anything without getting fish eyes. we had the PPG rep spend some time with him. As soon as the rep had him put on a 1 piece paint suit, the stopped. traced it down to his deodorant.

More info:
I have the disposable bubble type water trap at the gun. This fisheye problem is a new one, exclusive to these 2 batches of Shopline paint. I sprayed the first batch and got a worse reaction than the second time. Between the 2 attempts, I have switched air hoses, paint guns and fully drained the air compressor. I googled the subject and came up with some strange possibilities including the Armor-All suggestions here.
*Worn piston rings in compressor allowing blow-by in to the supply.
* Gel type deodorant flaking off and falling onto surface.
I've sprayed several cars here and had other problems like dust in the surface and water in the line, but fisheyes were never a problem with the PPG or Omni stuff I sprayed. I've had crud land in the paint when spraying Shopline before. It looks like either small bits of dirt or something that was in the gun itself, sprayed though the nozzle. Very hard to diagnose. I've wondered if the paint somehow doesn't fully mix well sometimes, as if the solids in the paint either don't blend completely or if the paint is defective. I rarely jump to the conclusion that the tool/product/part is to blame when I have problems, as most times it comes down to human error. I am just frustrated with NOT knowing the cause here.

what about shooting some of that stuff that came out good on prior cars on a test panel? wouldn't that tell you if the contamination is coming from the inside (the equipment) or externally on the surface prep

Add a few drops of Fisheye Eliminator to your topcoat. Problem solved.

I might have to result to that, though I'd prefer to figure out why this is happening.

99% of the time its something on that surface or getting onto the surface. examples as mentioned. oils, touching it after prime, oil in lines. If it was worse on the first than the second I would say its already on the surface or mixed in with your primer from the hose, compressor or gun. I would scuff that area re apply primer, and paint. Is it isolated to one area or the whole car?

You may never find the real cause of the fisheyes but as mentioned a few drops in the topcoat will usually get rid of them. It is true fisheyes don't usually show up in primer, they wait til you get your hopes up about how good the job is going.

With the help of the paint sales guy, I may have found the cause.
He asked about the procedures I've been using, then told me the exact order of what to do.

Prime vehicle. If vehicle sits for very long or needs to be sanded, FIRST wipe off car with wax and grease remover. I never thought to wipe the bare primer down first, but it does make sense. I could have been driving contaminants deeper into the primer by just jumping in to sand on it, then the reducer in the paint reacts to it.

He really discouraged the use of the fisheye eliminator, claiming that it contaminates the paint gun, mixing cups, air line and requires the user to KEEP using the stuff with any future work on the car.

I agree with this statement.
it can contaminate the entire shop depending on how the air flows thru the shop.
it can contaminate the gun washer also.
also every time you paint car that have eliminator in them you will get fish eyes unless you add eliminator to the paint.

fish eye eliminator is like a highly additive drug. you start out using a little bit. before you know it you will be using it every time you paint something.

also if the car has ben waxed recently, and you didn't completely remove the way it will give you fish eyes.
also if someone armor alls the rubber in the jambs they can get some on the outside of the car. also if you remove the stuff on the outside, every time you open the door it can contaminate the paint job.

Great info guys, I appreciate everything you have contributed so far. The thing is, I'm just confused because I haven't had any fisheye problems until recently. I've painted 13 cars in the past 10 years and this is the first time I've had to deal with this. Maybe I've just been lucky until now?