Re: Lucas Octane Booster
[Re: 62maxwgn]
#1851508
06/17/15 11:20 PM
06/17/15 11:20 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 10,570 Sunny South Florida
Golden-Arm
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 10,570
Sunny South Florida
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i get 100 octane avgas from my local airport, for (current price) $4.45 per gallon. grab a tank of that, and see how you do. avgas is a hell of a lot cheaper than race gas is. Airport is 10 mi away,been running it since 1992 !! mine is 1/2 mile away, and even has "pay at the pump". been using it since 2000.
"When Tyranny Becomes Law, Rebellion Becomes Duty"
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Re: Lucas Octane Booster
[Re: Golden-Arm]
#1852121
06/18/15 08:36 PM
06/18/15 08:36 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,927 Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,927
Kirkland, Washington
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i get 100 octane avgas from my local airport, for (current price) $4.45 per gallon. grab a tank of that, and see how you do. avgas is a hell of a lot cheaper than race gas is. Airport is 10 mi away,been running it since 1992 !! mine is 1/2 mile away, and even has "pay at the pump". been using it since 2000. If the Avgas you guys are buying is dyed (because it's taxed at a much lower rate than street fuel) be careful. The federal government (and possibly your state too) will levy fines that you wouldn't believe. The diesel boys are well aware of this. Say you have a diesel truck on the road and you are caught with red dyed diesel (accident or mechanic turns you in). Say this truck has 150,000 miles on it. Say it gets 20 mpg (the Gov/IRS will use published estimates) that means it's consumed 7,500 gallons of fuel. Say the fed and state taxes added together are $0.50 per gallon. That's $3750 in tax evasion. Now double that....(think repaying the Gov AND a penalty). Fine is $7,500. And now you face criminal charges for easy to prove tax evasion. Al Capone died in prison (syphllis) because of tax evasion--it was the easiest thing to nail him on. Just sayin
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Re: Lucas Octane Booster
[Re: Supercuda]
#1852203
06/18/15 10:06 PM
06/18/15 10:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 727 Ottawa, ontario
dd340
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 727
Ottawa, ontario
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A point or two is not 91 octane to 92 or 93 octane.
It's 91 octane to 91.2 or 91.3 octane. That's the "point" as in point two or point three octane.
But yes, MMT works better than petroleum distillates, much better, but not as good as TEL. Not the case, MMT can raise octane by a full point or 2 from 91 up to 92 or 93. Not from 91 to 91.1. MMT may not be the best for your engine or catalytic converter but absolutely can raise octane by a reasonable amount.
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Re: Lucas Octane Booster
[Re: dd340]
#1852253
06/18/15 11:18 PM
06/18/15 11:18 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889 up yours
Supercuda
About to go away
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About to go away
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
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A point or two is not 91 octane to 92 or 93 octane.
It's 91 octane to 91.2 or 91.3 octane. That's the "point" as in point two or point three octane.
But yes, MMT works better than petroleum distillates, much better, but not as good as TEL. Not the case, MMT can raise octane by a full point or 2 from 91 up to 92 or 93. Not from 91 to 91.1. MMT may not be the best for your engine or catalytic converter but absolutely can raise octane by a reasonable amount. From NOS' site http://nosperformancechemicals.com/"NOS performance for the serious racing enthusiast. Developed to increase octane effect up to 31 points or 3.1 full octane numbers. Blended with MMT and our performance enhancing Powertane, along with Nitro Methane and unique lubricants." 31 points is 3.1 octane, just like I said. A "point" is .1 octane. Lucas' site says the same thing http://lucasoil.com/pdf/TDS_Octane-Booster.pdfBut they make no claim on how much it'll raise octane that I can find. So when someone claims an octane booster raises octane a point or two it is .1 or .2 octane. About a decade ago, for my own edification, I did a study of the cost effectiveness of octane boosters and at that time it was cheaper to buy higher octane gas than to boost lower octane gas up, regardless of booster used. For example, it was cheaper to buy 89 octane gas rather than 87 and put in enough octane boost to get it up to 89. I do not recall if MMT was in my list of boosters checked though. I can tell you that ethanol, methanol, toluene, acetone, MEK, etc were. Example NOS booster is $18.94 via Amazon. http://www.amazon.com/12010-Racing-Formula-Octane-Booster/dp/B000HBIA1ITreats 16 gallons, minimum. I assume 16 gallons gives you 3.1 octane, more gallons less effect. That's a $1.18 a gallon for 3.1 more octane. Super isn't $1.18 more a gallon so unless super ain't doing it for you it's cheaper to run super. Now if you are running super and it's not doing it for you then yeah NOS might be enough to fix that. I know my old 413 was finicky about who's super I ran in it and when I had no choice but to run an off brand super I'd dump a bottle of octane boost in as insurance. But it was easier and cheaper to just fill up with Shell super unleaded which it liked.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.
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Re: Lucas Octane Booster
[Re: Supercuda]
#1852339
06/19/15 01:09 AM
06/19/15 01:09 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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I would highly suggest not going to a wilder cam to deal with detonation. One of our left coast members either Mick or Frankeduster (iirc) way back had a nightmare going that route till he finally lowered the SCR & took care of it properly (unless a person wants to proportion in some av or race gas (good material/info on that here!). Here one gas stn has "Sunoco unleaded 100 octane, 110 leaded, 112 octane" quote/unquote their ad. In 55 gal drums I am assuming (never been there). At the airport We used to be able to drive out on the tarmac & get filled from the tanker but they stopped that
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Lucas Octane Booster
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1852406
06/19/15 08:12 AM
06/19/15 08:12 AM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526 North Carolina
cjskotni
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
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Super isn't $1.18 more a gallon so unless super ain't doing it for you it's cheaper to run super. This is with running super pump gas 93 octane from Mobile 1. My cam is very mild for my application. It is a comp cams 21-223-4 which is advertised with a stock stroke to have a power band of 1600-5800RPM's. I already have .055" head gaskets and Eddy aluminum heads. I don't know what else I can do to get the SCR down besides changing pistons which I ain't going there. I know many here have gotten 10.4:1 stroker motors with aluminum heads to work fine on premium pump. I would think maybe this mild cam is hurting a bit here as it can't "bleed" off that compression very well... I was thinking of going to a roller setup eventually to pull a bit more from the motor and make it a bit more resilient with modern oil. I just wanted to get the car running reliably for awhile before I went back into the motor. I have spent the better part of two years since I sprung the car from body shop Hades, chasing vapor lock and other various issues. I know this can be done without changing the rotating assembly, using race gas, methanol, etc. I think the only thing left here is the cam. One of our left coast members either Mick or Frankeduster (iirc) way back had a nightmare going that route Yes, I remember that saga last year? I seem to remember he was running iron heads though and started off with considerably more cam than I currently have. Yes, I think about poor Frankenduster whenever I think about going to another cam shaft. :laughs: When I had my car dyno'ed the guy said the engine wanted more cam for sure. He said I'm probably leaving 80-100 crank hp on the table with my mild flat tappet cam vs. a roller. The car otherwise has the drivetrain that would like more cam (2400 stall, 3.55 gear, hi compression motor). Bottom line is I'd rather shell out for a better camshaft and upgrade the engine than be a slave to race gas. I have done some calling around and the closest place that sells race gas is 25 miles and through congested areas. I'd burn half a tank of gas to get there and back. If I had a source of race gas (or even non-ethanol premium) within 10 miles, I'd suck it up. I have been looking at getting pails shipped and at $60-70 for 5 gallons + ship, I think I'd rather save my $$ for the cam swap...if that will fix this problem for good.
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Re: Lucas Octane Booster
[Re: cjskotni]
#1852464
06/19/15 11:22 AM
06/19/15 11:22 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,595 So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,595
So Cal
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Super isn't $1.18 more a gallon so unless super ain't doing it for you it's cheaper to run super. This is with running super pump gas 93 octane from Mobile 1. My cam is very mild for my application. It is a comp cams 21-223-4 which is advertised with a stock stroke to have a power band of 1600-5800RPM's. I already have .055" head gaskets and Eddy aluminum heads. I don't know what else I can do to get the SCR down besides changing pistons which I ain't going there. I know many here have gotten 10.4:1 stroker motors with aluminum heads to work fine on premium pump. I would think maybe this mild cam is hurting a bit here as it can't "bleed" off that compression very well... I was thinking of going to a roller setup eventually to pull a bit more from the motor and make it a bit more resilient with modern oil. I just wanted to get the car running reliably for awhile before I went back into the motor. I have spent the better part of two years since I sprung the car from body shop Hades, chasing vapor lock and other various issues. I know this can be done without changing the rotating assembly, using race gas, methanol, etc. I think the only thing left here is the cam. One of our left coast members either Mick or Frankeduster (iirc) way back had a nightmare going that route Yes, I remember that saga last year? I seem to remember he was running iron heads though and started off with considerably more cam than I currently have. Yes, I think about poor Frankenduster whenever I think about going to another cam shaft. :laughs: When I had my car dyno'ed the guy said the engine wanted more cam for sure. He said I'm probably leaving 80-100 crank hp on the table with my mild flat tappet cam vs. a roller. The car otherwise has the drivetrain that would like more cam (2400 stall, 3.55 gear, hi compression motor). Bottom line is I'd rather shell out for a better camshaft and upgrade the engine than be a slave to race gas. I have done some calling around and the closest place that sells race gas is 25 miles and through congested areas. I'd burn half a tank of gas to get there and back. If I had a source of race gas (or even non-ethanol premium) within 10 miles, I'd suck it up. I have been looking at getting pails shipped and at $60-70 for 5 gallons + ship, I think I'd rather save my $$ for the cam swap...if that will fix this problem for good. Who talked you into running that much compression? "a better camshaft"... It's not that your cam is bad or good. It's about meeting your needs, criteria and other parts. Throwing a "roller" at it is not going to solve you problem. Lowering your DCR will. Whether is a flat tapped hyd, flat tappet solid, roller, whatever. Your current cam has an intake ABDC of 60 deg. The XE274 is 63 deg and the XE284 is 68. XE275HL is 64 and XE284HL is 69 deg. Anything bigger than those 284's might not be a match the rest of your system (3.55's 2400 stall, etc). They will also need more skill and personal attention to keep in tune. Even the 284 might bring some issues. What's your current DCR? http://www.wallaceracing.com/dynamic-cr.php
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Re: Lucas Octane Booster
[Re: Pacnorthcuda]
#1852639
06/19/15 04:09 PM
06/19/15 04:09 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526 North Carolina
cjskotni
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
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Why not put an adjustable vacuum can on it and dial back the amount of the vacuum advance??? If such a part truly exists, provide a part number and source and I would surely order it. All I know that you can adjust is when the vacuum advance comes in but not how much as that's controlled by the arm itself.
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Re: Lucas Octane Booster
[Re: cjskotni]
#1852693
06/19/15 05:29 PM
06/19/15 05:29 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,927 Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,927
Kirkland, Washington
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Why not put an adjustable vacuum can on it and dial back the amount of the vacuum advance??? If such a part truly exists, provide a part number and source and I would surely order it. All I know that you can adjust is when the vacuum advance comes in but not how much as that's controlled by the arm itself. True, but when you describe having too much advance at 3/4 throttle (3/4 throttle is pretty low vacuum) then decreasing the can's sensitivity to vacuum might solve the issue. You CAN also modify the arm to limit total V-advance Read up here http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?topic=14888.0;wap2
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Re: Lucas Octane Booster
[Re: cjskotni]
#1852763
06/19/15 07:07 PM
06/19/15 07:07 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889 up yours
Supercuda
About to go away
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About to go away
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
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You effectively have no quench, which isn't helping the issue.
I found, with my 413, that it was sensitive to different brands of super. Have you tried a different brand? I had success with Shell, but that was back in the early 90's before all the junk gas they have today.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.
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