5.7 NAG1 swap performance
#1849456
06/15/15 10:24 AM
06/15/15 10:24 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,712 Sacramento, Ca
Darius
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,712
Sacramento, Ca
|
Many of you have read about my swap of this set up into my 70 GTX. I went on my first long road trip yesterday, appx 280 mi round trip. Aside from the awesome power this set up delivers in this car, I got 25.9 MPG! at an avg speed of 72-75 mph. Tachs an even 2000RPM at 72 MPH. I don't know how I could be much happier than these results! BIG hassle making this swap work but worth it in the end.
Driving modern convenience in classic beauty
|
|
|
Re: 5.7 NAG1 swap performance
[Re: Darius]
#1849464
06/15/15 10:32 AM
06/15/15 10:32 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 16,207 Mesa, Arizona
dart4forte
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 16,207
Mesa, Arizona
|
So you got the computer issue resolved.
“So if it’s on the internet it must be true”
Abe Lincoln
|
|
|
Re: 5.7 NAG1 swap performance
[Re: Darius]
#1849586
06/15/15 12:58 PM
06/15/15 12:58 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,712 Sacramento, Ca
Darius
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,712
Sacramento, Ca
|
Yes, major computer issues solved, just fine tuning shift points now.
Driving modern convenience in classic beauty
|
|
|
Re: 5.7 NAG1 swap performance
[Re: Darius]
#1849859
06/15/15 07:04 PM
06/15/15 07:04 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,712 Sacramento, Ca
Darius
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,712
Sacramento, Ca
|
We had a drive shaft made from the local driveline shop. I think he used a Jeep slip yoke set up . I have a 2005 RAM engine controller I bought from Modern Muscle and a PCS transmission controller. You will need to use the shifter from an LX, preferably an 07. you will also need the throttle assembly and this is available with the engine controller from Modern Muscle or I have an extra I will sell to someone if they need it. $175 and it is brand new. I think it is a $250 part with the ECM package. I left everything stock except the cold air intake. I don't think the engine will have much problem with changes but I cannot say for sure , you migh ask that question of Dave at Modern Muscle, he is great to work with. I do know it will handle Diablo Tuner type changes if that is all you are talking about. The TCM should work with changes . I am still learning the adjustment capabilities of that piece. It was the most difficult part of the puzzle.
Driving modern convenience in classic beauty
|
|
|
Re: 5.7 NAG1 swap performance
[Re: Darius]
#1850373
06/16/15 11:03 AM
06/16/15 11:03 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,712 Sacramento, Ca
Darius
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,712
Sacramento, Ca
|
have not gone there yet. I will post up when I get to it. Have I mentioned how "dis-interested in work" I am now????
Driving modern convenience in classic beauty
|
|
|
Re: 5.7 NAG1 swap performance
[Re: Darius]
#1850480
06/16/15 01:22 PM
06/16/15 01:22 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,037 GA
roadrunninMark
master
|
master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,037
GA
|
|
|
|
Re: 5.7 NAG1 swap performance
[Re: Darius]
#1878432
07/26/15 01:31 PM
07/26/15 01:31 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,712 Sacramento, Ca
Darius
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,712
Sacramento, Ca
|
I have been "tuning" the transmission over the past 2 weekends. Once we spoke with The guy who can program the system and he helped us understand the software it is actually pretty easy, just takes 2 people, one driving and one making the adjustments on the laptop. Pretty awesome capability actually. It is very complicated however, from the stand point of being a person who is comfortable and understands programming as well as the intricacies of how these transmissions physically work, then how the two relate to each other. The bottom line is we have the thing working real nice now in normal driving mode, i.e. typical daily driving situations and freeway speeds and acceleration. WOT is a different animal however. If you mash the pedal the transmission seems to be "searching" for the correct gear and it is as though it cannot keep up with the reaction time of the engine performance. Anyway, Russell...the programmer... had us save a data file created when we mashed the pedal and he is looking at it. This will apparently be an adjustment relating to fluid pressures vs percent of throttle. As we ride now I use relatively low throttle, like 35-40% in acceleration situation and THAT has me hauling some azz! If you are all jiggy about a 440/727 combo and that performance you will be blown away at this combo, and I don't even have it completely dialed in yet!! I would love to post some pics but I am not wasting any more time f$%^&*g with this site's picture posting complication. The program on my car is simpler!
Driving modern convenience in classic beauty
|
|
|
Re: 5.7 NAG1 swap performance
[Re: cudaman1969]
#1879247
07/27/15 03:17 PM
07/27/15 03:17 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,812 fredericksburg,va
cudaman1969
Itch Nutz
|
Itch Nutz
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,812
fredericksburg,va
|
Been watching your whole build, great job. Could you tell again what electronics you used for engine and trans. I have an 07 5.7 and trans to basically leave stock for now and improve as I go along. Are the systems you have able to adapt to changes? I was looking at a drive shaft off my 64, trunion type, to adapt to the trans with that aluminum spacer like you have. Been looking a lot and found perfect solution, 2005 Dodge Sprinter has the same trans but has a yoke that hooks right up to u-joint, four finger instead of three and extends back to cover that line up pin. So all factory parts nothing to manufacture, even the mount looks like it will work, this will cure one of the problems. When all the buggs are worked out let us know
|
|
|
Re: 5.7 NAG1 swap performance
[Re: cudaman1969]
#1879302
07/27/15 04:25 PM
07/27/15 04:25 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,712 Sacramento, Ca
Darius
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,712
Sacramento, Ca
|
Been watching your whole build, great job. Could you tell again what electronics you used for engine and trans. I have an 07 5.7 and trans to basically leave stock for now and improve as I go along. Are the systems you have able to adapt to changes? I was looking at a drive shaft off my 64, trunion type, to adapt to the trans with that aluminum spacer like you have. Been looking a lot and found perfect solution, 2005 Dodge Sprinter has the same trans but has a yoke that hooks right up to u-joint, four finger instead of three and extends back to cover that line up pin. So all factory parts nothing to manufacture, even the mount looks like it will work, this will cure one of the problems. When all the buggs are worked out let us know Take a closer look at that set up and see how the tone rings and speed sensors are set up. Those items are what will REALLY make it an easy swap (or not). Believe me, the fabrication/modification wasn't s$%t compared to the cost of getting the computers to work.
Driving modern convenience in classic beauty
|
|
|
Re: 5.7 NAG1 swap performance
[Re: roadrunninMark]
#1879369
07/27/15 05:27 PM
07/27/15 05:27 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,812 fredericksburg,va
cudaman1969
Itch Nutz
|
Itch Nutz
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,812
fredericksburg,va
|
Can you put up some pics of that, cudaman? I will try to do pic Thought you put the abs-speed sensors on the axel end? The other is in the trans(what the factory rep told me) Hope pic came in, it just un bolts from output shaft.
Last edited by cudaman1969; 07/27/15 05:55 PM.
|
|
|
Re: 5.7 NAG1 swap performance
[Re: cudaman1969]
#1879384
07/27/15 05:49 PM
07/27/15 05:49 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,712 Sacramento, Ca
Darius
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,712
Sacramento, Ca
|
The speed tone rings and sensors ARE mounted on the axle ends. They won't fit on an 8 3/4 axle! Thus, the aftermarket TCM and tone ring/sensor mounted on the output shaft of the transmission. Read through my build thread in the member project section Bro... it is titled B Body Stiffening
I would like to have a look at this Sprinter set up. That engine is a deisel though so i can see you buying an after market ECM,, Modern Muscle sells a 2005 Ram ECM with harness and that is what I used.
Last edited by Darius; 07/27/15 05:50 PM.
Driving modern convenience in classic beauty
|
|
|
Re: 5.7 NAG1 swap performance
[Re: Darius]
#1879397
07/27/15 06:12 PM
07/27/15 06:12 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,812 fredericksburg,va
cudaman1969
Itch Nutz
|
Itch Nutz
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,812
fredericksburg,va
|
The speed tone rings and sensors ARE mounted on the axle ends. They won't fit on an 8 3/4 axle! Thus, the aftermarket TCM and tone ring/sensor mounted on the output shaft of the transmission. Read through my build thread in the member project section Bro... it is titled B Body Stiffening
I would like to have a look at this Sprinter set up. That engine is a deisel though so i can see you buying an after market ECM,, Modern Muscle sells a 2005 Ram ECM with harness and that is what I used. Not the trans itself just the yoke. I read all your posts, very nice. From what I was told the sensor in trans has to work with sensor on axel then the two determine what speed you are traveling, this is from the regional factory rep. He figured out the problem we had so thought he knew his stuff. Why couldn't the carrier gear abs tone ring be used instead of axel, defiantly would be easer to install. What type of speedo are you using now?
|
|
|
Re: 5.7 NAG1 swap performance
[Re: Darius]
#1879596
07/27/15 09:59 PM
07/27/15 09:59 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,712 Sacramento, Ca
Darius
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,712
Sacramento, Ca
|
The tone rings actually mount on the "bulb" like end of the half shaft in the newer rear ends. There is no place like it or even the same diameter on the end of an 8 3/4 axle, just a flat flange, PLUS that flange is right up against the axle housing so still, no room for the tone ring. The TCM I bought supplied a tone ring to mount on the output shaft of the transmission. I spoke with engineers that work in the engine and transmission programming dept at Chrysler and they told me there is no solution that THEY could make happen so I would be very interested in talking to whatever rep you spoke with. I think we might be talking about two different applications here. I installed an Autometer speedometer.
That pic you posted is cool. That would be an easier swap than what I did for sure, however, all that does is make it easier to install the trans and drive shaft assembly. It does nothing to resolve the computer communication issue.
Driving modern convenience in classic beauty
|
|
|
Re: 5.7 NAG1 swap performance
[Re: Darius]
#1879721
07/28/15 12:28 AM
07/28/15 12:28 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,812 fredericksburg,va
cudaman1969
Itch Nutz
|
Itch Nutz
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,812
fredericksburg,va
|
The tone rings actually mount on the "bulb" like end of the half shaft in the newer rear ends. There is no place like it or even the same diameter on the end of an 8 3/4 axle, just a flat flange, PLUS that flange is right up against the axle housing so still, no room for the tone ring. The TCM I bought supplied a tone ring to mount on the output shaft of the transmission. I spoke with engineers that work in the engine and transmission programming dept at Chrysler and they told me there is no solution that THEY could make happen so I would be very interested in talking to whatever rep you spoke with. I think we might be talking about two different applications here. I installed an Autometer speedometer.
That pic you posted is cool. That would be an easier swap than what I did for sure, however, all that does is make it easier to install the trans and drive shaft assembly. It does nothing to resolve the computer communication issue. You are correct about the control issue. The tone ring you talk about is a combination ABS speedo sensor, that's why I suggested using the ABS ring inside the third member(between gear and carrier). I talked with a knowledgable guy about these problems, 5.7- nag trans up at Carlisle. On the engine he said look for a controller off a 2005 car or truck very easy to reprogram and those early years might be good for the trans since they where less connected but didn't know for sure. Does the tone ring-sensor on trans output allow you to change gear ratios easily? That's how that can of worms started with the Charger. Control box was programmed with a 2.62 ratio and someone had replaced the rear with an aftermarket SRT 3.05 ratio, which came with a flash box to reprogram but was lost when car was sold to dealer, of course they reflashed the trans and all was lost. After a lot of back and forth the rep came down to see why it was going into limp mode( put in three trans searching for cause). That's when he said the sensor inside trans has to coincide with the one on the haft shaft, in fact all four, and since they weren't, limp mode. He said tires have to be within stock size also. We pulled trans apart and there was the sensor, dead center, reading off drum. Rep was getting his info direct from home office, dealer guys had no clue. We ended up putting a complete junk yard stock rear, worked perfect. If your guy can figure this out then I say he's a smart dude. Hope Hope
|
|
|
|
|