Re: MP chrome box vs. orange box
[Re: stumpy]
#1848483
06/14/15 01:23 AM
06/14/15 01:23 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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Listen to Stump. it can miss it can pull timing it can fail. it may last for years. YMMV! Do ya feel lucky, well do ya. EDIT I believe the chrome can handle a higher pri current load over time before failing
Last edited by RapidRobert; 06/14/15 01:35 AM.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: MP chrome box vs. orange box
[Re: JoesMopar]
#1848534
06/14/15 04:15 AM
06/14/15 04:15 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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Actually there are reports of "pulled timing". The ECU is supposed to open the circuit from the coil neg primary post right when the signal from the pickup tells it to. for instance at 3k if the pickup triggers at IE 45 deg BTDC (initial+slots+can) & the box is acting uP & delays opening the above circuit until say the crank is at 40 BTDC then the ECU has pulled 5 deg out of it by not doing its job. I ain't sayin the orange box will or it wont but between those reports (few cuz most people dont plot a curve then sub in another box & see if the curve is the same) but between that & the multitude of reported failure I would not purchase one exp since there are alot better ways to go (even if you wanna keep it OE with a Mopar ECU for easy parts availablity
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: MP chrome box vs. orange box
[Re: JoesMopar]
#1848543
06/14/15 07:10 AM
06/14/15 07:10 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,043 State of Confusion
hp383
Just a normal tag again
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Just a normal tag again
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,043
State of Confusion
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I have heard that the Hi-Rev ECU is a reliable alternative to the Orange box. It is not a Mopar made unit, but it has the same (or very similar) RPM range. Price is nice too.
Join the Penguin Liberation Front!! Stop the Hippo Occupation!
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Re: MP chrome box vs. orange box
[Re: JoesMopar]
#1848711
06/14/15 01:47 PM
06/14/15 01:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md
383man
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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I have an orange box I bought around 1999 and it is still going strong on my 63. We took it off my sons Dart when we put MSD on his Dart. His Dart ran no different and was no faster with the MSD so I took the orange MP ECU and used it on my 63. I have checked it for high rpm timing retard and have not seen any and its on my 63 now running 10.70's and never missing a beat. I hear all kind of horror stories about the ones bought in the last 5 to 10 years but some still get good servive with them. So if you buy one now it could be hit or miss from what I hear but as I say I have had good luck with them. They used to say not to use the chrome box on a street car that will idle any longer then 30 minutes as the chrome was to be more for racing I believe. But many use it on street cars with good luck. The funny thing is that at real high rpm's you can actually make more power pulling some timing back out but thats not what the orange box is supossed to do. I would say that which ever you use just carry a spare as I do but I have never used it. There are many guys out there still using the MP ECU's but there are also many other ign setups out there as many just use the good old MSD which is a great ign. Myself I plan to change to the MSD one day just because I like the lower rpm multi-spark it gives as its nice in helping kep plugs clean and the MSD is a very good all around ign. Ron
Last edited by 383man; 06/14/15 01:49 PM.
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Re: MP chrome box vs. orange box
[Re: mikemee1331]
#1848879
06/14/15 06:08 PM
06/14/15 06:08 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,751 Graham, WA
Polarapete
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,751
Graham, WA
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I have used the Orange and the Chrome box on my '64 Polara with a mild 440. When I sold it to a man in Chicago it had the Chrome box mounted on a stand off mount I made on the pass side of the radiator core support. I had some left over Orange boxes and gave them away to people in the club as I had a Cummins daily driver then.
I started the Ramcharger project and decided I wanted a CD box with a rev limiter built in. I looked at the MSDs and settled on the Mallory version that uses a rotary dial to set the limits. Then I needed to upgrade my '87 D100 from the Lean Burn ($%#@) system it had, so I used it there with a rebuilt '74 Challenger distributor (it had a vacuum advance, the '87 dist did not) to trigger it, with a new Accel coil. Serious overkill, but so far, so good.
On the racer I am going to use the conversion kit that puts a GM HEI 4 pin module on the bottom of the 440 dist and a 50,000 volt E-Coil.
All of these options are better than the Chrysler boxes IMHO
1986 Dodge Ramcharger 440 2wd, Bracket Racer Under Construction 1998 Ram 2500 QuadCab, new daily driver. 2008 Honda Element 2014 Carry-On 7x14 Cargo Trailer
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Re: MP chrome box vs. orange box
[Re: Polarapete]
#1849398
06/15/15 07:59 AM
06/15/15 07:59 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,032 Ohio
dobie
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,032
Ohio
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As always, Im in the minority here. I have both the orange and chrome box. The orange box came with my kit years ago back in 2006 or 2007. After converting my RR over, I used that box for quite awhile. Hanging around here I kept reading how poor the orange boxes were and that I should get a chrome box to solve all the world's issues. Well, that chrome box was horrible. The minute I put that thing on my car, it ran for crap. It wouldn't idle at all as the rpm's would swing like a fourth grader at recess. Trying to drive the thing was even worse. It would surge to the point of almost killing the motor to darn near wide open throttle at take off. Id put the orange box back on, and all was well.
I tried this three times to make sure I wasn't doing something wrong on the install. Three times I had the same results....That chrome box was/is unusable with my car. I have no idea why either of course.
A couple of years ago I bought one of the new Rev-n-ator boxes at Carlisle. So far I haven't had any issues. I didn't experience any of the claimed hp or mileage increases, but the car runs just fine with it installed. For now, I have the Rev-n-ator installed if for nothing else because of the built in limiter. My original orange box now lives in the trunk as a spare.
1968 Plymouth Road Runner
383 4 speed
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Re: MP chrome box vs. orange box
[Re: dobie]
#1849413
06/15/15 09:42 AM
06/15/15 09:42 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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As I have no idea why either of course. You're fine bro, actually you just had a bad/defective box that happened to be a chrome one
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: MP chrome box vs. orange box
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1849587
06/15/15 02:04 PM
06/15/15 02:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
dogdays
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
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Chrome box has a better history? BS. It's so funny reading all this "X" box vs "Y" box and then someone chimes in that MSDs are pieces of crap, etc etc etc.
IF you go back 10-12 years the box that was giving the problems was the chrome box. I remember plenty of posts about chrome boxes that barely made it around the block before failing. At that point the orange box was supposedly "better" than the chrome because it didn't fail nearly as often. The chrome box also supposedly pulled timing at high rpm. "Crap", they called it.
Now the chrome box has miraculously made a comeback as the better box, and it's the orange box that barely makes it around the block before failing, and pulls timing.
The ballast resistor question is also specious. I bet there are more guys trying to run a CD box WITH the ballast resistor, than those running an orange or chrome box WITHOUT the ballast resistor. More paper excuses.
I ran an orange box for years, bought it in 1984. In around 1997 or so I thought something was wrong with my orange box. I bought a $40 used MSD6 on Ebay and installed it, being careful to wire it according to the MSD instructions that are everywhere on the Net. I used the Jacobs coil I had used since 1984, also wired the way MSD said to do. It's still running. My only problem has been oxidation in the pickup coil wiring plug.
About 1998 or so the ignition in my '93 Suburban went south so I replaced the distributor with an Accel Billetech and the ignition with an Accel 300+ that I bought brand new for around $110. It has lasted around 130,000 miles bolted to the firewall in an engine compartment that runs so hot you cannot hold your hand against the hood after a hundred miles.
If one has to have a box that uses the Chrysler Electronic Ignition wiring, I'd skip the MP boxes, also any foreign made replacement ignition box, and go straight to either the RevNnator or else FBO's box. I like the looks of the FBO box because he is using a Daytona Sensors circuit board and they're a pretty good company.
Regarding the pulling timing issue, yes years ago it was discovered that cars would ET better if some timing was pulled at high rpm, don't ask me why. But reading the Webpage of the dude who rebuilds and upgrades analog MSD boxes, I seem to recall that he replaces slow transistors with faster ones. I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that the transistor used as a switch in the MP boxes is one of the slower ones.
To summarize: I am happy with my aftermarket multispark CD ignitions and will leave my Chrysler factory stuff on the shelf. Maybe someday some restorer will want to pay big bucks for it.
R.
Last edited by dogdays; 06/15/15 02:08 PM.
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Re: MP chrome box vs. orange box
[Re: JoesMopar]
#1849739
06/15/15 05:16 PM
06/15/15 05:16 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,032 Ohio
dobie
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,032
Ohio
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Interesting indeed.
Thanks guys.
1968 Plymouth Road Runner
383 4 speed
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Re: MP chrome box vs. orange box
[Re: 62maxwgn]
#1849795
06/15/15 07:07 PM
06/15/15 07:07 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 11,632 SHELBY TWP,,MICHIGAN
72N96RR
I LOVE WEDGIES
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I LOVE WEDGIES
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 11,632
SHELBY TWP,,MICHIGAN
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When I purchased my car it had a chrome box on it..no issues...I later switched to a orange box and there is no difference what so ever on this street car...My 72 440 RR has a 5 prong block...My old 72 400 had a 4 prong block and I can find nobody than knows the difference and why ??
1972 Road Runner / GTX 440 4spd Dana 3.54 Just about to turn 26K original miles..
A boat, a GMC truck, some Craftsman Tools, LOTS of Zombie Protection, and a few Goldfish..
If you love someone set them free.. If they come back it means nobody else wanted them either..!!
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Re: MP chrome box vs. orange box
[Re: 72N96RR]
#1850238
06/16/15 04:17 AM
06/16/15 04:17 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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My 72 440 RR has a 5 prong block...My old 72 400 had a 4 prong block and I can find nobody than knows the difference and why ?? The original early (72 ish) electronic setups used a 5 pin ECU with a 4 terminal (dual) ballast. later kit (orange/chrome/gold ECU's had the start circuit combined inside the ECU & no longer needed the extra ~5 ohm half of the "dual" ballast. Aftermarket ECU's are avail in 4 or 5 pin & the 5th pin is a dummy (has no continuity) & was introduced cuz people making parts purchases were complaining that it was the wrong one (comebacks before they even installed it which if they did install it they woulda found that it worked) cuz a 4 terminal (dual) ballast system will work with a 4 or a 5 pin ECU but the parts mfrs just added a fifth pin to stop the complaints/comebacks. An OE 5 pinner ECU with a functioning 5th pin (has some resistance in the red/green wire pin) does require a 4 terminal "dual" ballast. Not sure if this is what you are after but I've been gone all day & I miss my computer time
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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