Re: 46RE standalone controller (I think I'll design one)
[Re: hooziewhatsit]
#1827396
05/15/15 05:59 PM
05/15/15 05:59 PM
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hooziewhatsit
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Ok, some updates.
You won't need a PC to tune it anymore. I found a handheld screen with buttons I can use for that. When it's not used for tuning, it can either be unplugged and tucked away, or it can show the current transmission variables. I'll have an option to use a PC to update the firmware, but that shouldn't be an issue for most people.
Does anybody know what the pulses per mile for the stock output shaft sensor on the 46RE is? I saw a reference to 4000ppm, but would like to verify that.
Tow/Haul mode: Can anyone say with authority what this button does? I've seen references online that all this does is disable overdrive. I've also seen that it raises the shift points a bit (likely by having a lower governor pressure).
I also saw something that the computer did the same thing in 4-LO as it does with the Tow/Haul mode?
If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
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Re: 46RE standalone controller (I think I'll design one)
[Re: hooziewhatsit]
#1827561
05/15/15 11:42 PM
05/15/15 11:42 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
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There are differences in Tow/Haul depending on model year. I would have to go back and see but if memory serves me - one year T/H disabled OD and then later T/H would change the shift schedule to allow OD if certain vehicle parameters were met like vehicle speed versus engine speed.
Also - pulses per mile - i would have to check on that too - 44000 come to mind but it has been years since I worked the logic side of these things. Count the annulus lugs in the overdrive - the part that the park pawl engages (same lugs that the speed sensor senses) and then multiply that time revolutions per mile based on a given prop shaft speed. Also, the 727 and all Chrysler Rear Wheel Drive units operate ALL the same in regards to 1-2, 2-3 and 3-2 and 2-1 shifts. The fight between governor pressure and throttle pressure determines what happens. You can get a 3-2 down shift if you have steady state throttle while the vehicle starts to slow (slowing reduces gov. pressure). Normally closed throttle downshifts result in a 3-1 - yes, but it is not "designed" this way. A sticky throttle valve in the valve body can/will result in a 3-2, 2-1 dhown shift. Lockup on all the old RWD units are controlled by electronics except the very early units. With a lock up solenoid - the solenoid closes, pressure builds behind the LU valve and shuttles it over to acheive LU. When we command no LU, we shut this solenoid off and you get open converter control - no LU.
Last edited by Transman; 05/15/15 11:42 PM.
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Re: 46RE standalone controller (I think I'll design one)
[Re: hooziewhatsit]
#1835401
05/27/15 04:48 PM
05/27/15 04:48 PM
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hooziewhatsit
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Just ordered the first version of the circuit boards. Sometime in the near future I'll be borrowing my parents 93 Grand cherokee to do some testing on. I'm thinking I'll be able to plug in my harness, let it idle, and manually run the governor pressure up and down. If I can do that, then the rest is just programming Transman: I've seen controllers engage the Lockup clutch with a PWM over ~1 second to avoid a jerky/clunky engagement. Did dodge ever do that, and/or should I look into doing it?
If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
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Re: 46RE standalone controller (I think I'll design one)
[Re: hooziewhatsit]
#1835435
05/27/15 06:02 PM
05/27/15 06:02 PM
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Yes, it will have a 0 to 12v square wave output for speed. I did email the rostra folks to ask if a square wave will work with their system, but never heard back... maybe you'd have better luck than I did if you ask.
If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
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Re: 46RE standalone controller (I think I'll design one)
[Re: hooziewhatsit]
#1836632
05/29/15 01:32 PM
05/29/15 01:32 PM
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I believe we simply ground the solenoid field and then the solenoid closes the valve which then causes the lockup valve to move over. We call that ballistic converter apply as opposed to modulated converter apply.
We did that for everything in the old days.
In the old days - all electrically controlled lockup units - made no difference what model year or trans. That all changed when we went to 41TE (604). Many people are confused what electronics do on the old units, I think because we use different names like PTU (part throttle unlock) etc. The bottom line is we turn the lockup solenoid on or off to control lockup - but all it is at the end of the day - a solenoid opening or closing which makes the lockup valve or solenoid switch valve move. The valve has to move to get or shut off lockup. If the valve is stuck off - actuating the solenoid will accomplish nothing. OBDII will set the check engine light because the controls do not see engine speed reduction after the solenoid is activated.
The only duty cycle solenoids on Mopar transmissions that I am aware of now is the 41TE (604 family), RFE Family, 62TE, NAG1 and now the 8 and 9 speeds. For both lockup and shift control. As for using a PWM to control lockup, the converter and valve body were designed for an on/off solenoid. Again, the converter does not get "turned on" until that lockup valve moves over. A PWM solenoid will accomplish nothing to smooth the converter engagement as that valve moves very little to achieve L/U. plus the damper assembly within the converter was designed to cushion the lockup apply. By dragging the lockup disc too long you put more heat in to the disc. It wasn't designed to be slipped for cushioning.
Last edited by Transman; 05/29/15 01:42 PM.
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Re: 46RE standalone controller (I think I'll design one)
[Re: hooziewhatsit]
#1838959
06/01/15 06:16 PM
06/01/15 06:16 PM
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Yes, there is a temperature sensor internal to the transmission that I can read. In 2000 they change the sensor, but I have the voltage/temperature curves for each one. During setup it'll be calibrated in some manner so I know which one you have. That said, I was planning to display the transmission temperature on the handheld screen. Outputting it to another gauge... might be possible, but probably not on the first or second revision. The bare circuit boards should show up this week. My test vehicle is being delivered this week as well. Hopefully in a couple weeks I'll be to the point of testing control of the governor pressure solenoid. If that goes well, I'll have a lot more coding to do
If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
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Re: 46RE standalone controller (I think I'll design one)
[Re: hooziewhatsit]
#1839007
06/01/15 06:46 PM
06/01/15 06:46 PM
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I believe the VSS (two wire VR) signal itself can be split to go to two different places.
If the cruise control and electronic speedometer can both take a 0-12v square wave (at the same frequency), they can both be used on the one output from the controller.
If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
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Re: 46RE standalone controller (I think I'll design one)
[Re: hooziewhatsit]
#1839122
06/01/15 08:12 PM
06/01/15 08:12 PM
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I know that Dakota Digital makes a signal splitter and that's what I was going to use, but if it was possible to do it with your controller -- I would get rid of one more complication. Here is the Dakota Digital Universal Speedometer Signal Interface: Dakota Digital Speedo Interface If someone is going to be using the 46RE transmission, there is the problem of just the output from the transmission being an electronic signal. Those that use the stock speedometer cable setup will kind of be screwed, but there are workarounds (i.e. cable generators or changing to a GPS speedo). Those of us that will be using electronic speedometers will be all set -- I was just trying to get the electronic box count down in my car. Mark
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Re: 46RE standalone controller (I think I'll design one)
[Re: DeMopuar]
#1839240
06/01/15 10:07 PM
06/01/15 10:07 PM
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Several temperature features are in the logic. Both RE and RH. If below a certain temperature you cannot get OD or LU. This is to promote warmup and prevent fluid starvation to the OD when super cold. The OD is the last guy to get fluid in the lube circuit. It comes from TC output like a 727 but the fluid enters the case like normal - then splits off once inside to lube the OD and the intermediate shaft and trans geartrain.
If TOO hot - above i think 265 F, then OD is defeated, shifts to 3rd, and LU is turned on to reduce converter slippage and resultant heat build up. Once the temp drops, then OD is allowed.
The controls look at neutral safety position, temperature, shaft speed, outside temperature, engine speed, to name a few things. If neutral safety reports N or P, you lose OD. We watch for engine speed reduction when we turn on LU, if we do not see an engine speed drop in a certain amount of clock time- we set a TC code. Some of the inputs are used to verify plausibility when we get certain bad inputs or no inputs. Not sure what your controls logic is going to include but you may want to incorporate some of these for safety reasons.
Last edited by Transman; 06/01/15 10:09 PM.
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Re: 46RE standalone controller (I think I'll design one)
[Re: hooziewhatsit]
#1840230
06/03/15 01:42 AM
06/03/15 01:42 AM
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hooziewhatsit
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Yea, I'm not entirely sure on the interface yet, but it will likely have the option to set lock and unlock speeds at different loads (for both OD and LU). Transman, thanks for the info
If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
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Re: 46RE standalone controller (I think I'll design one)
[Re: hooziewhatsit]
#1864380
07/05/15 04:52 PM
07/05/15 04:52 PM
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I have it controlling the governor/OD/LU solenoids on the bench. Hopefully this week I can test controlling the solenoid in the jeeps transmission while it's running. Assuming that goes well... I have a lot more code to write
If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
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Re: 46RE standalone controller (I think I'll design one)
[Re: hooziewhatsit]
#1867397
07/09/15 09:30 PM
07/09/15 09:30 PM
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So... I, umm, ran into an issue. There is absolutely no room under the jeep to disconnect the RE plug to plug in my own harness Seriously, any tips from anyone that's done it before? I can't even touch one of the locking tabs to attempt to release it. Not that the other tab is moving either
If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
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