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Re: new dart mopar blocks !
[Re: Oyvind Mopar]
#1772195
03/05/15 05:16 PM
03/05/15 05:16 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
Taking time off to work on my car
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Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Quote:
Maybe a simpler solution is to have a GM block cast in such a way that Mopar heads can be adapted? With CNC machinery it should not be too difficult to machine? But, maybe even simpler to use GM heads.....
Oh, right: "Dart introduces the new Dale Eicke Signature Series 'Mopar'  Blocks & Heads!"
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Re: new dart mopar blocks !
[Re: Oyvind Mopar]
#1772196
03/05/15 05:18 PM
03/05/15 05:18 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
StealthWedge67
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
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Cant really figure out why you guys are encouraged by this.... when I read the OP, I hear Dart saying: "Show me the volume, and we'll be there". Do you think they haven't already done their own market research? The only reason they would say this is that its a polite way of placating your request, while also telling you between the lines exactly why you don't already see those products. They already know that the return on investment for the Mopar market is just not there. Simple question: Why do you think the other options that were mentioned above (Kieth Black, Koleno, MP, World/MP) have gone by the wayside or are impossible to get? Do you think Dart hasn't noticed what happened with those business ventures? 
LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready - 11.07 @ 120
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Re: new dart mopar blocks !
[Re: StealthWedge67]
#1772197
03/05/15 05:23 PM
03/05/15 05:23 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
sixpackgut
Drag Week Mod Champion
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Drag Week Mod Champion
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
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Quote:
Cant really figure out why you guys are encouraged by this.... when I read the OP, I hear Dart saying: "Show me the volume, and we'll be there". Do you think they haven't already done their own market research? The only reason they would say this is that its a polite way of placating your request, while also telling you between the lines exactly why you don't already see those products. They already know that the return on investment for the Mopar market is just not there. Simple question: Why do you think the other options that were mentioned above (Kieth Black, Koleno, MP, World/MP) have gone by the wayside or are impossible to get? Do you think Dart hasn't noticed what happened with those business ventures?
the guys with with LX cars spend boat loads of money. If everyone was smart, everyone should get behind the new hemi stuff because it will be our future
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135
Follow @g3hemiswap on instagram
performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
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Re: new dart mopar blocks !
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#1772199
03/05/15 05:34 PM
03/05/15 05:34 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,255
Canada
WO23Coronet
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,255
Canada
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Cant really figure out why you guys are encouraged by this.... when I read the OP, I hear Dart saying: "Show me the volume, and we'll be there". Do you think they haven't already done their own market research? The only reason they would say this is that its a polite way of placating your request, while also telling you between the lines exactly why you don't already see those products. They already know that the return on investment for the Mopar market is just not there. Simple question: Why do you think the other options that were mentioned above (Kieth Black, Koleno, MP, World/MP) have gone by the wayside or are impossible to get? Do you think Dart hasn't noticed what happened with those business ventures?
the guys with with LX cars spend boat loads of money. If everyone was smart, everyone should get behind the new hemi stuff because it will be our future
I keep hearing the new Hemi guys bragging on how good the blocks are so why make a better flyswatter. 
They are good blocks but still have limits, an aftermarket one would be nice. A Siamese block good for 4.25" bore and a similar stroke would be nice. A raised deck (9.5-9.75) would really open up a world of HP for a Gen III, you could finally get some cubes to take advantage of their awesome heads and package it with a reasonable rod/stroke ratio and CH
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Re: new dart mopar blocks !
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#1772200
03/05/15 05:37 PM
03/05/15 05:37 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
MattW
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Cant really figure out why you guys are encouraged by this.... when I read the OP, I hear Dart saying: "Show me the volume, and we'll be there". Do you think they haven't already done their own market research? The only reason they would say this is that its a polite way of placating your request, while also telling you between the lines exactly why you don't already see those products. They already know that the return on investment for the Mopar market is just not there. Simple question: Why do you think the other options that were mentioned above (Kieth Black, Koleno, MP, World/MP) have gone by the wayside or are impossible to get? Do you think Dart hasn't noticed what happened with those business ventures?
the guys with with LX cars spend boat loads of money. If everyone was smart, everyone should get behind the new hemi stuff because it will be our future
I keep hearing the new Hemi guys bragging on how good the blocks are so why make a better flyswatter.
Your correct but we need a block that will appease the hard core racers.
Take the factory 6.4 block without the vvt cam and let it be able to go what 4.2 bore?
Then add some height to it
Matt
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Re: new dart mopar blocks !
[Re: StealthWedge67]
#1772201
03/05/15 05:41 PM
03/05/15 05:41 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
Taking time off to work on my car
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Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Quote:
Cant really figure out why you guys are encouraged by this.... when I read the OP, I hear Dart saying: "Show me the volume, and we'll be there". Do you think they haven't already done their own market research? The only reason they would say this is that its a polite way of placating your request, while also telling you between the lines exactly why you don't already see those products. They already know that the return on investment for the Mopar market is just not there.
Same opinion, here. It's just a polite response from Dart re: an option they've already ruled out on their own.
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Re: new dart mopar blocks !
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#1772203
03/05/15 05:52 PM
03/05/15 05:52 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
sixpackgut
Drag Week Mod Champion
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Drag Week Mod Champion
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Cant really figure out why you guys are encouraged by this.... when I read the OP, I hear Dart saying: "Show me the volume, and we'll be there". Do you think they haven't already done their own market research? The only reason they would say this is that its a polite way of placating your request, while also telling you between the lines exactly why you don't already see those products. They already know that the return on investment for the Mopar market is just not there. Simple question: Why do you think the other options that were mentioned above (Kieth Black, Koleno, MP, World/MP) have gone by the wayside or are impossible to get? Do you think Dart hasn't noticed what happened with those business ventures?
the guys with with LX cars spend boat loads of money. If everyone was smart, everyone should get behind the new hemi stuff because it will be our future
I keep hearing the new Hemi guys bragging on how good the blocks are so why make a better flyswatter.
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135
Follow @g3hemiswap on instagram
performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
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Re: new dart mopar blocks !
[Re: sixpackgut]
#1772206
03/05/15 06:07 PM
03/05/15 06:07 PM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 515
geezer acres rest home
dakotawilly
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 515
geezer acres rest home
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of course they are not going to do it if they cant sell them.its not rocket science.opinions as they are,there is a need and we all know it.only time will tell if they will do this.voice your opinion on their website and if they dont,well,sometimes even an angel has a stinky butt......
SFI 25.5 depends,no leak,even at 213 mph....
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Re: new dart mopar blocks !
[Re: sixpackgut]
#1772207
03/05/15 06:12 PM
03/05/15 06:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,271
fredericksburg,va
cudaman1969
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,271
fredericksburg,va
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Quote:
Quote:
And therein lies the problem. Getting a pool of "buyers" together to buy the produced blocks. Seems everyone has their druthers but few agree what that should be. There are thousands of Chevy buyers to buy their stuff, do you think you could get 500 mopar buyers say for a cross bolted main RB aluminum block? The cost of producing a hundred of those would be astronomical causing most guys to pass.
I bet the sales of SB chevy and ford blocks have gone down the tubes since the aftermarket picked up and ran with the LS stuff
I agree, the only way is Chrysler making a taller aluminum block for the big trucks(3500 and bigger) to replace the diesel, which they are doing with the 392 now. They sell thousands ard we reap the benefits.
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Re: new dart mopar blocks !
[Re: steve660]
#1772209
03/05/15 06:42 PM
03/05/15 06:42 PM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 515
geezer acres rest home
dakotawilly
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 515
geezer acres rest home
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josh king just posted that the world mopar blocks are back in production and that arrow racing engines is doing the machining.they should be available in the next couple months.thats good news ,but still doesnt address the need for good replacement b/rb and hemi blocks for the average joe racer.....
SFI 25.5 depends,no leak,even at 213 mph....
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Re: new dart mopar blocks !
[Re: BradH]
#1772210
03/05/15 06:47 PM
03/05/15 06:47 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
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Quote:
Quote:
So now you want then to do both a B and an RB block when there are already good options out there thru Indy, Keith Black, and others.
I don't really have a dog in this fight since I'm likely stuck in the OEM block band-aid approach, but I'd like to know the truth behind what you said about existing aftermarket B & RB blocks.
This is what I've been hearing (right or wrong):
1. Indy aluminum - Available product, but poor QC; pay for a "finished" block and still have to have someone else fix the machine work
2. Keith Black aluminum - Great block... once it finally shows up. Unless you're the only game in town, that's a business model headed for disaster (again).
3. Koleno - Nice iron block, but not currently in production, nor any expected time for when it will be
4. MP Mega iron (1st generation) - Decent block, but long since gone from inventory and replaced by the...
5. World / MP block - Not a well finished product to begin with, plus lack of availability (World no longer contracted by MP to produce them?)
So, even for the "bread and butter" B / RB replacement blocks, what's really out there today?
You need to consider what's THE product that will generate enough sales volume to entice a company like Dart to get into the Mopar block market. Everything else that are way more niche applications are simply too obscure to take on and expect to be profitable.
Otherwise, this will get the same response from Dart as David Vizard gave when someone asked about him doing a Mopar-specific performance book: "Sorry, not going to happen!"
Your forgetting HP Performance,Dave has the same problem as KB getting casting from the foundry.
If your only gripe about the Indy blocks is the machine work from Indy then you can choose to buy the block unfinished and have your choise of machinist finish it as some of our customers have done.
The only problem we see with lobbying Dart or anyone to build blocks is the initial proposed quanity needed to justify the cost of molding and casting the first run would have to exceed the investment.In other words a realization of profit before taking the risk.  
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Re: new dart mopar blocks !
[Re: B G Racing]
#1772212
03/05/15 07:24 PM
03/05/15 07:24 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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There are a couple of things that come to mind when it comes to ANY new item.. yes they have to see the dollar on investment but usually they have a first run and they cost X based on the quantity but if you plan on long term(which in the case of blocks) you should be able to make a profit.. but many companies want to see that profit in short term.. but if the price is right then it shouldnt take long to get it.. I'm sure if its priced like GM stuff that the mopar crowd would buy(even as cheap as they are)but everyone doesnt need a block at this minute but over a couple of years they might.. supposedly there are a number of guys looking right now.... but this is JMO and I dont see Dart jumping in.. otherwise they would have 10 or 15 years ago if there was a buck to be made 
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