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Re: Sonic check frustrations [Re: Quicktree] #1769733
03/03/15 09:13 PM
03/03/15 09:13 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,684
W. Kentucky
justinp61 Offline OP
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Quote:

none of the basic Chevy/ford shops around here have sonic checkers. guess they don't have that issue.




One of the shops told me that if they have suspect block they just buy another one. I asked him if he built many small block Mopars? I got the answer I expected, "no".

Re: Sonic check frustrations [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1769734
03/03/15 09:39 PM
03/03/15 09:39 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 108
so ca
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mikesiron Offline
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I too have been thinking about one of those ones from Ebay but think the probe needs to be a ball shape or very small. How has it been working with that .375 probe?

Re: Sonic check frustrations [Re: mikesiron] #1769735
03/03/15 10:07 PM
03/03/15 10:07 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
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Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Quote:

I too have been thinking about one of those ones from Ebay but think the probe needs to be a ball shape or very small. How has it been working with that .375 probe?




Well its .315 but I'm not home YET to use it.. IF
need be I will contour the probe face to get the radius
that I want/need... I'm thinking about making a cage
to hold the probe for reading OD of tubing just so
its square on the tubing... might end up making something
for the ID stuff also... I will see when I start playing
with it when I get home(still on winter vacation)
EDIT
The first thing I'll do is spin up a 4" ID tube on
the lathe with a certain wall thickness and test it
as is and see what the discrepancy is.. if any then
contour the probe face and keep looking to see if
it reads correct

Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 03/03/15 10:12 PM.
Re: Sonic check frustrations [Re: mikesiron] #1769736
03/03/15 10:25 PM
03/03/15 10:25 PM
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Florida STAYcation
dOrk ! Offline
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Quote:

I too have been thinking about one of those ones from Ebay but think the probe needs to be a ball shape or very small. How has it been working with that .375 probe?




I asked that eBay seller if they knew if a mucho smaller probe could be adapted to their machine ..... I have not heard an answer yet.

Re: Sonic check frustrations [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1769737
03/04/15 02:32 PM
03/04/15 02:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,033
Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Online content
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Mike, did ya get a chance to try that tester out yet? ebay has a gm100 tester also, think its any good?

Re: Sonic check frustrations [Re: mopar dave] #1769738
03/04/15 02:48 PM
03/04/15 02:48 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Quote:

Mike, did ya get a chance to try that tester out yet? ebay has a gm100 tester also, think its any good?




No.. I'm not home yet.. I might make it home by Monday
and start playing with it then...I bought this one
basically for 3 reasons.. it will measure down to .039
and has both metric and English for the read outs and
it offers a program that you can plug in all the data
on a print out if you plug the unit into the computer
(that program is a option)
EDIT
I looked at that GM100 but it didnt offer what I wanted

Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 03/04/15 03:04 PM.
Re: Sonic check frustrations [Re: dOrk !] #1769739
03/04/15 03:18 PM
03/04/15 03:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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BradH Offline
Taking time off to work on my car
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Quote:

... reads dead-on.. on flat stock but not on a curved piece.




^^^ THIS ^^^

Even the small flat-faced probes (mine is 6 mm) will not read a curved surface accurately unless re-profiled for the application.

It's one of the trade-offs of buying a budget import tester; they don't offer a probe designed for reading cylinders, so you have to adapt what you can get from the vendor to work.

Re: Sonic check frustrations [Re: BradH] #1769740
03/04/15 03:52 PM
03/04/15 03:52 PM
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Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Online content
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I want to buy a tester as well. have 2 blocks to check. I read if you modify the probe/transducer it will read inaccurately. so whats the solution with this issue?

Re: Sonic check frustrations [Re: mopar dave] #1769741
03/04/15 04:01 PM
03/04/15 04:01 PM
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
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BradH Offline
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Quote:

I want to buy a tester as well. have 2 blocks to check. I read if you modify the probe/transducer it will read inaccurately. so whats the solution with this issue?



Not sure what causes the problem some people have after modifying the probe. ZIPPY told me he'd done the same thing I did and it worked fine (he actually bought his before I bought mine) when he cross-checked it against a more expensive tester from where he worked at the time.

I followed AndyF's advice to calibrate the tester against the distance between the top of two adjacent cylinder bores and that's been a consistent way for me to double-check the readings.

So, I don't know if the issues other people have had has to do w/ their technique for profiling the probe's face (gaps in the curved surface?), leaving too rough of a surface to get accurate readings, not using a proper medium (gel) between the bore surface and the probe, or what.

Re: Sonic check frustrations [Re: BradH] #1769742
03/04/15 04:03 PM
03/04/15 04:03 PM
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CTD5.9 Offline
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do they read 2 pieces of the same material pressed against each other? you could make a cast iron adapter that looks like a D then it would be reading - adapter = wall thickness. I'm guessing it messes up though, and the materials would need to be the same.

Re: Sonic check frustrations [Re: BradH] #1769743
03/04/15 04:15 PM
03/04/15 04:15 PM
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Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Online content
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which tester do you have? i'm looking at the one mike bought and the gm100 for about $100.

Re: Sonic check frustrations [Re: mopar dave] #1769744
03/04/15 04:46 PM
03/04/15 04:46 PM
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
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BradH Offline
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I bought my tester from a company called Testing Equipment based out of Houston, TX. The same model is probably available for less from some of the China-direct vendors on eBay, but I wanted a USA point of contact to scream at should something go wrong w/ the deal.

They offer(ed?) two versions, the MT150 and MT160. I bought the 150 version because it was less expensive, but maybe should have bought the 160 in hind sight. The key functional differences are (a) the 160 gives readouts to .00x" accuracy (e.g., .157") and (b) has some PC download capability that I don't need. The 150 reads to .0x" accuracy, (e.g. .16"), which is fine except on the thinner readings such as .08", so I don't know if the wall thickness is closer to .076" or .084".

The vendor offers the same testers with different probes / transducers. I purchased mine w/ the N07 model, which has a 6mm diameter face and is the smallest they offer. I contacted them directly about buying a second N07 at the same time, because I suspected I was going to have to hand-fit one of them to read the curved surface of a cylinder bore properly... and I was right. I spent some time w/ 600-grit wet-or-dry profiling the face of the probe to have a convex surface that appeared to seat properly against the inside of my 4.375" tapered ring compressor.

Although the instructions give some different methods for calibration, especially considering I was working w/ curved surfaces, I think the best approach was the one that AndyF suggested: measure the thickness at the top of two adjacent cylinders w/ a caliper, then take a reading w/ the tester at the identical spot and calibrate the tester to match that.

I don't recall the cost of the individual components, but the invoice I found for the total transaction (sonic tester kit w/ probe) was just under $400. IIRC, the 160 model is $50-60 more, which I didn't feel was worth it at the time.

I hope this helps. I've used the tester to read a couple of different 440 blocks and have been able to get consistent readings after finding the best calibration approach and some hands-on experience to get the best "feel" for positioning the probe, etc.

Re: Sonic check frustrations [Re: BradH] #1769745
03/04/15 04:55 PM
03/04/15 04:55 PM
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Posts: 8,033
Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Online content
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yes, thanks.

Re: Sonic check frustrations [Re: mopar dave] #1769746
03/06/15 02:18 PM
03/06/15 02:18 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,684
W. Kentucky
justinp61 Offline OP
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I finally found some one to check my block, never dreamed it would be this much trouble. I've called machine shops and engine builders within about a two hour radius from me with no luck. I finally talked to a guy in Nashville who gave the number of a guy, who gave the number of a guy that had one. He had a small one man machine shop but quit and went to work at a power plant and kept all his stuff. He's about an hour away and is going to check two blocks for me next week .

Re: Sonic check frustrations [Re: justinp61] #1769747
03/06/15 02:33 PM
03/06/15 02:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,033
Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Online content
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cool! i'm going to buy my own tester as there's a lot of shops that don't offer that around here. just waiting on mr p to test his out to see if he likes it as that is the same tester im looking to buy.

Re: Sonic check frustrations [Re: mopar dave] #1769748
03/06/15 02:41 PM
03/06/15 02:41 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,684
W. Kentucky
justinp61 Offline OP
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I looked on the bag but not knowing if the transducers would work kept me from buying. It appears that the plugs on the transducers are standardized. If that's the case you could buy the correct one from Dakota for about $300. My only question would be if the unit would operate in the correct frequency.

Re: Sonic check frustrations [Re: justinp61] #1769749
03/06/15 02:49 PM
03/06/15 02:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,033
Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Online content
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my plan is to mod the probe and buy a second probe if I ruin it with the mod.

Re: Sonic check frustrations [Re: mopar dave] #1769750
03/06/15 03:05 PM
03/06/15 03:05 PM
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Columbia, CT
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moper Offline
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I bought my Dakota tester years ago. To me, if it's not certifiable (none of the cheap ones are legal for testing when results really matter) it's not much better than visual and weight inspections. You can pay a couple hundred and still cost yourself a couple grand later. They also gave me a crash course on proper testing and have a file of what I bought, and have been great to talk to over the years when i had questions.
Personally, not having any background in how they work or thier design, I would never modify the transducer. They tell me not to. I figure they should know...lol. Good companies offer a variety of them for ferrous and non-ferrous metals and various radii. Mine has paid for itself over time but it's also saved me from making an expensive mistake or two - so I'm way ahead.


Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
Re: Sonic check frustrations [Re: moper] #1769751
03/06/15 03:24 PM
03/06/15 03:24 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,684
W. Kentucky
justinp61 Offline OP
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Moper can you post a good clear close up photo of the lead plug ends on your probe?

Re: Sonic check frustrations [Re: justinp61] #1769752
03/13/15 12:23 AM
03/13/15 12:23 AM
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Posts: 108
so ca
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mikesiron Offline
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How about some updates pictures of probes etc. Im still looking into buying one. Mr Pbody did you test yours yet?

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