Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On!
#1758228
02/19/15 02:04 AM
02/19/15 02:04 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714 Spokane Washington
ScottSmith_Harms
OP
Mr Wizzard
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Mr Wizzard
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Spokane Washington
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Well the cat is out of the bag now so I'm going to post a recent event many of us on Moparts may not have been aware of. A little over a year ago I was tasked with locating a Superbird project car to be used as a very high end custom car build. The guidelines were that it had to be a real Superbird (so no clones need apply) and that it would preferably be pretty rough example as to not "kill" a nicer original car in the process of building a custom. After passing over several cars (most of which were considered too nice to customize) the answer came right here on Moparts. Member "mopar4ya" Dan Mays, posted pics of his rusty example parked in his storage barn with a question concerning it's value. While It was a numbers matching car, it was base model Bird being a basic white on black car, column shift automatic, and a 440 four barrel engine, it also showed all of the signs of a rust belt car and was in miserable shape with rust and rot everywhere. So even though it was a numbers car, it really wouldn't be feasible restoration project and looked to be a perfect candidate for the build. I asked Dan what he wanted for it and the new owner paid his price, it was sold and transported to it's new home in Southern California. The new owner is Jonathan Ward of www.icon4x4.com. Jonathon is well known in the custom car circles for his groundbreaking and highly tasteful builds which combine the classics designs of the early years with all of the performance and comfort a modern version might have. Check out his website for more details! The Superbird is being custom built for one of his clients, it's sure to become something truly special, this is a photo that Hot Rod magazine took to show the "before" version.....I can't wait to see what it becomes! You can follow the build on the Icon website or on Facebook: Jonathan Ward
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Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On!
[Re: mattsmopars]
#1758230
02/19/15 05:08 PM
02/19/15 05:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,240 Saline, MI
efisixpack
pro stock
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pro stock
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I don't understand the purpose of using a real Superbird. While Im sure the finished product will be interesting and probably very well built, I would bet it's received by the Mopar community much the same way the LS equipped challenger was.
When I die I want to go like my Grandfather did, quietly in his sleep. Not screaming like the passengers in his car.
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Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On!
[Re: DPelletier]
#1758233
02/20/15 04:16 PM
02/20/15 04:16 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714 Spokane Washington
ScottSmith_Harms
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Mr Wizzard
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Mr Wizzard
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Well I guess the way I see it is "Don't shoot the messenger" and dont blame the builder. I'm a resto purist kinda guy myself but also respect the decisions of others who choose a different direction. Seriously though, I doubt that a proper restoration of this particular car was ever going to happen (maybe if it were a Hemi) so at least it will live again and in a very nice form. The numbers drivetrain, etc. Is being saved with the car so if anyone is so inclined to reverse the mods someday, they'll be with the car. For anyone wanting to do one thier way, I guess the answer to that is, go buy one! They still turn up pretty often.
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Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On!
[Re: MONC]
#1758238
02/21/15 01:20 PM
02/21/15 01:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714 Spokane Washington
ScottSmith_Harms
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Mr Wizzard
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Mr Wizzard
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Spokane Washington
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Uhhhhhh, NO! Think again *BTW, this is only a guess on the drive train but definitely one option that was considered, most mods will be performance/under the skin oriented.
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Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On!
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#1758239
02/23/15 06:27 PM
02/23/15 06:27 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179 California
mickm
master
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master
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i don't know that this will ever happen, and i've posted this before in a few threads, but i've always wanted to build a super bird, but it would have to be a clone: mini tubbed to get some good tires under the rear, passon 5 speed, big inch but streetable hemi, front suspension upgrades, not tubular and such, just beefy components, and most of all... black. but stock appearing otherwise. not that i could afford it in the first place, but i would never think of doing that to an original super bird. but yes, to each his own!
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Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On!
[Re: mickm]
#1758240
02/23/15 06:50 PM
02/23/15 06:50 PM
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 18,880 -
RSNOMO
Moparts Torchbearer
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Moparts Torchbearer
Joined: Apr 2012
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Quote:
i would never think of doing that to an original super bird.
Bullseye...
1900 built...
So, maybe 600 left...
Original drivetrain 'birds ain't getting easy to find...
Clone it if it ain't going OEM...
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Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On!
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#1758241
02/23/15 08:07 PM
02/23/15 08:07 PM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,008 Central US
grancuda
super stock
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super stock
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Quote:
Seriously though, I doubt that a proper restoration of this particular car was ever going to happen (maybe if it were a Hemi) .....
Yep, those 440 4v SuperBirds are pretty much parts cars when they need new sheetmetal.
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Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On!
[Re: mopars_1]
#1758247
02/24/15 01:07 PM
02/24/15 01:07 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,060 Western New York
sixpackbee
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Western New York
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I've done cars that bad and it was restorable but it would have required a max effort. I too wish it were returned to as made condition but lets see how he does his modifications. If done right, and smartly, it can be done without major hacking and could be returned to stock with a little investment of time, if so desired, by someone down the road.
Last edited by sixpackbee; 02/24/15 01:07 PM.
1959 Bugeye Sprite 1967 Charger Black L code 1967 Coronet R/T Convert Green 440 auto bought from original owner 1968 Charger R/T Bronze 440 4 spd console AM/FM 1969 Super Bee WM21H B5 A40 D21 N96 1969 Barracuda Formula S 340 Convert pilot car 1969 Hemi Road Runner RM23J D32 Omaha orange 4.10 Dana N96 N85 1970 Super Bee WM23N FE5 V1X 3.91 axle package, N96 1970 Road Runner RM21N B3 V1X D13 1971 MG Midget 1971 Road Runner RM23H GW3, A57 1972 Road Runner RM23P FY1, D21
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Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On!
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#1758251
02/25/15 02:38 PM
02/25/15 02:38 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134 Kelowna, B.C. Canada
DPelletier
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I was certainly not pointing any fingers at you, Scott. I suppose it's natural that many people on this forum would express thoughts similar to those expressed here but depending on the extent (severity? ) of the modifications, the point that the car is better off than sitting around rusting (like the one Ryan posted a couple weeks ago for eg.), certainly has merit. Anyhow, I know you have a thick skin but thanks for posting anyway. If nothing else it will be interesting to see what gets done to it. Dave
1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack
1974 'Cuda
2008 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Ram 3500 Diesel
2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel
2003 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Durango Limited
[url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
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Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On!
[Re: mopars_1]
#1758252
02/25/15 09:23 PM
02/25/15 09:23 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179 California
mickm
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Quote:
The other day someone posted a clone superbird that already had a lot of the hard work done for mid 20's.. why not spring for that??
posted where?
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Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On!
[Re: mickm]
#1758255
02/26/15 06:55 AM
02/26/15 06:55 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,209 Someplace you aren't
SomeCarGuy
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I Live Here
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Is the owner a Chevy guy? Ive noticed they tend to not give a rip about tearing into a numbers/rare car. As we can already see, the reception will be mostly head shaking. Could be just for shock value.
I want my fair share
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Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On!
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#1758256
02/26/15 09:53 AM
02/26/15 09:53 AM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,610 Germany
fc7_plumcrazy
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Quote:
Sure Carsten, I could have taken that tact, but It's not like I would have been preventing the guy from finding one anyway. Keep in mind that the original drivetrain is being saved with the car and it will always be possible to reverse the mods. Any number of years it exists as a custom will be better than more years rotting into the ground that's for sure.
Point taken. At least you could influence that they didn't took a car in better condition, a more desireable drivtrain or colour combo.
I still liked it more being rusty in Dans garage then being heavily customized. I am sure it didn't get worse while owned by Dan.
Carsten
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Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On!
[Re: fc7_plumcrazy]
#1758257
02/26/15 10:06 AM
02/26/15 10:06 AM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,554 Maryland
wally426ci
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The only reasoning I can think of (without the owner here to state correctly) is shock value. Saying it's a Satellite made to look like a Superbird vs. a real Superbird will definitely raise a few eyebrows on the show circuit. That's just my I can't throw stones as I changed the color of my car and added a few things.
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Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On!
[Re: gtx6970]
#1758259
02/28/15 10:47 AM
02/28/15 10:47 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,468 N.Y.
sixpacksteve
pro stock
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pro stock
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Funny, if this was 1975 No one would care! just go on cars in barns website and you'll see an Awful lot of wing cars Rotting! at least this ones being restored so to speak. 99% of the ones on BJ auctions you'll only see on BJ's auctions at a later time!
Hell Hath No Fury Like Mine
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Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On!
[Re: mopars_1]
#1758265
03/02/15 03:29 PM
03/02/15 03:29 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,230 restos just aren't my thing
gtsuperbee
top fuel
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top fuel
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restos just aren't my thing
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I don't have a problem with mods to a rare car. At least someone is throwing some money at it. Pretty much everything I own is modded. There is room for everyone in the hobby to do their thing. Personally, I would walk past 100 restored birds to check out the one with mods... but that's just me. The car was very rough, and somebody wants to put the time and effort to save it. That's all that matters to me.
Restoring a car to look "only" as good as the factory made it is like getting a boob job for your wife and having the doctor make them two different sizes to seem more natural
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Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On!
[Re: mopars_1]
#1758269
03/03/15 03:32 PM
03/03/15 03:32 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,584 MD
p d'ro
pro stock
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pro stock
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Quote:
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As a Bronco owner, I love ICON builds, although I would never spring six figures for a Bronco. They have incredible skills and this will be badass. Everyone loves the Superbird and Daytona race ars like Big Willy. What is the difference?
Because those are recognizable pieces of drag history. This is not, apples and oranges.
. I guess my theory is that to become pieces of drag history they had to be cut and mangled. I do get your point that back then they were ugly cars that couldn't sell for various reasons. Maybe the new owner wants something he can road race or do SCCA stuff. I would love to have one with coil overs, slammed low, 4 wheel discs, a new gen EFI hemi, etc.. To me they look so much better than an OEM skinny tire show car. If I had a survivor, ok leave it, but this rusted out one is free game. Not a rare hemi 4 speed.. I like this one..
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Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On!
[Re: gtsuperbee]
#1758270
03/05/15 12:08 AM
03/05/15 12:08 AM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 49 mn.
taxidermy man
member
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Quote:
I don't have a problem with mods to a rare car. At least someone is throwing some money at it. Pretty much everything I own is modded. There is room for everyone in the hobby to do their thing. Personally, I would walk past 100 restored birds to check out the one with mods... but that's just me. The car was very rough, and somebody wants to put the time and effort to save it. That's all that matters to me.
BINGO
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Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On!
[Re: SattyNoCar]
#1758272
03/05/15 09:36 PM
03/05/15 09:36 PM
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,657 The Historic Hudson Valley
MONC
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Quote:
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Judging by the website, and it's name, hoping it's not going to be transformed into some 4 X 4 abomination...
How about crawling out from under your rock. ICON builds more than 4X4's. I love the Derelict cars....original looking, totally new/modern underneath.
ICON Derelict
video
The derelict car thing is cool, I've seen that video a while back. Ultimate sleepers. A Superbird in it's original form does NOT look like a sleeper. So where are they going to take it? Hmmm, they do 4 X 4 s too, don't they?
Relax John, just messing with you. Guess you want me to crawl back under my rock...
We'll see what they do with it and let the masses decide...
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Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On!
[Re: MONC]
#1758273
03/06/15 02:51 AM
03/06/15 02:51 AM
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 263 CA, USA
JcodeCharger
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 263
CA, USA
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Its a shame because I tried to buy that very Superbird and plan to restore it. I was told was sold just after the talks started. What a shame. Affordable birds in project form are rare. Not mad at you Scott, just that the Superbirds and Daytonas have become the flavor of the week for the "more dollars than sense crowd".
68 twin turbo Dart 8.19 so far 70 Swinger 360 69 Roadrunner 383 4 speed 69 Mod Top Satellite 383 auto 69.5 A12 Super Bee 4 speed 70 T/A Challenger 70 FC7 Duster 340 4 speed 70 FJ5 Superbird 68 Hemi 4 speed Roadrunner 71 Duster W2 340
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Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On!
[Re: dvw]
#1758276
03/07/15 01:40 PM
03/07/15 01:40 PM
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 18,880 -
RSNOMO
Moparts Torchbearer
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Moparts Torchbearer
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Quote:
Do you really think if a basket case such as this with aftermarket parts (and a lot of them) most likely mig welded is any different than adding Superbird parts to a 70 Belvedere that was rust free?
Yep...
Because if the cowl, and core support numbers remain intact, it still gives provenance that it is indeed the real thing...
Along with the rest of the documentation..
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Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On!
[Re: mopars_1]
#1758278
03/07/15 07:24 PM
03/07/15 07:24 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,712 Sacramento, Ca
Darius
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Sacramento, Ca
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Quote:
Quote:
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Do you really think if a basket case such as this with aftermarket parts (and a lot of them) most likely mig welded is any different than adding Superbird parts to a 70 Belvedere that was rust free?
Yep...
Because if the cowl, and core support numbers remain intact, it still gives provenance that it is indeed the real thing...
Along with the rest of the documentation..
and the obvious difference in initial price tag.
This whole discussion about "original" had me laughing (yet again) the other day. I was presenting a proposal to a woman who lives in an Eichler home. In Calif it was a "mid century modern" style home built in the mid 50's -mid 60's. They are pieces of crap! 2x6T&G roof over exposed post and beam construction, 1/4" PLYWOOD on the walls, NO sheetrock, and ZERO insulation. This woman was all out of sorts because to change the ALUMINUM wiring we would have to remove the wood paneling and new stuff just would not look right to a potential buyer! Nevermind all the other non original stuff , like HVAC ducting exposed on the roof after the in the slab boiler heat finally failed.
Too much emphasis placed on "original" stuff. Did anyone notice the $$$ flying out at the January auctions for "restomod" style cars?????????
Driving modern convenience in classic beauty
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Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On!
[Re: RSNOMO]
#1758279
03/07/15 08:13 PM
03/07/15 08:13 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,835 MI, usa
dvw
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,835
MI, usa
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Quote:
Quote:
Do you really think if a basket case such as this with aftermarket parts (and a lot of them) most likely mig welded is any different than adding Superbird parts to a 70 Belvedere that was rust free?
Yep...
Because if the cowl, and core support numbers remain intact, it still gives provenance that it is indeed the real thing...
Along with the rest of the documentation..
Again makes me laugh. The "real thing". How much has to be left to make it real? A Belvedere (factory metal, welds,flaws,etc.) has more in relation to a factory car than a Superbird tag stuck on $20K worth of Chinese replacement sheet metal. I could care less if the tag says what it started life as something rare. I'm not saying to fake one for profit. But lets face it this is a Hobby for 99% of us, not a business. I can't buy that a 2" tag makes a difference unless it's someones ego. Just my 2 cents. I guess that's why I cut stuff up and race it. Doug
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Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On!
[Re: dvw]
#1758280
03/07/15 09:39 PM
03/07/15 09:39 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,106 Ridgeland Wi
mopars_1
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master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,106
Ridgeland Wi
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Do you really think if a basket case such as this with aftermarket parts (and a lot of them) most likely mig welded is any different than adding Superbird parts to a 70 Belvedere that was rust free?
Yep...
Because if the cowl, and core support numbers remain intact, it still gives provenance that it is indeed the real thing...
Along with the rest of the documentation..
Again makes me laugh. The "real thing". How much has to be left to make it real? A Belvedere (factory metal, welds,flaws,etc.) has more in relation to a factory car than a Superbird tag stuck on $20K worth of Chinese replacement sheet metal. I could care less if the tag says what it started life as something rare. I'm not saying to fake one for profit. But lets face it this is a Hobby for 99% of us, not a business. I can't buy that a 2" tag makes a difference unless it's someones ego. Just my 2 cents. I guess that's why I cut stuff up and race it. Doug
Are you implying that at a certain point, documented number don't mean anything? I guess the rest of the car world respectfully disagrees with you on that one. To each his own though.
Sounds like you're arguing against yourself. If this isn't a real superbird anymore and the numbers now don't mean anything, why bother sticking serious money into it rather than get a nice clean belvedere, buy good reproduction superbird pieces and save yourself a pile of money in the end while letting the next guy deal with the headache of restoring it?
1971 Plymouth Duster 340 auto 1937 Plymouth PT50 1969 Dodge Dart Swinger 340 4 speed 2013 Ram laramie 2500 hemi 2008 Harley FLSTSB springer
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Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On!
[Re: mopars_1]
#1758282
03/08/15 12:38 AM
03/08/15 12:38 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,835 MI, usa
dvw
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,835
MI, usa
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Do you really think if a basket case such as this with aftermarket parts (and a lot of them) most likely mig welded is any different than adding Superbird parts to a 70 Belvedere that was rust free?
Yep...
Because if the cowl, and core support numbers remain intact, it still gives provenance that it is indeed the real thing...
Along with the rest of the documentation..
Again makes me laugh. The "real thing". How much has to be left to make it real? A Belvedere (factory metal, welds,flaws,etc.) has more in relation to a factory car than a Superbird tag stuck on $20K worth of Chinese replacement sheet metal. I could care less if the tag says what it started life as something rare. I'm not saying to fake one for profit. But lets face it this is a Hobby for 99% of us, not a business. I can't buy that a 2" tag makes a difference unless it's someones ego. Just my 2 cents. I guess that's why I cut stuff up and race it. Doug
Are you implying that at a certain point, documented number don't mean anything? I guess the rest of the car world respectfully disagrees with you on that one. To each his own though.
Sounds like you're arguing against yourself. If this isn't a real superbird anymore and the numbers now don't mean anything, why bother sticking serious money into it rather than get a nice clean belvedere, buy good reproduction superbird pieces and save yourself a pile of money in the end while letting the next guy deal with the headache of restoring it?
Personally that's what I would have done. But my point is its the owners car. His build, his money, the finished product is up to him. I think people get hung up on what they perceive a car is worth rather than enjoying it. To each there own. Doug
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Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On!
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#1758283
03/11/15 01:04 PM
03/11/15 01:04 PM
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,603 Central Ohio
BMChrysler68
Smarter than the average bear? I think not.
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Smarter than the average bear? I think not.
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,603
Central Ohio
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I'm just excited by the possibility of a 'bird that doesn't have Goodyear Polyglas on it. I'll be watching.
1968 Plymouth Fury III 2dr FT, 383-4v, 4 speed
1972 AMC Ambassador SST wagon 360-4v, automatic
2014 Challenger R/T Classic 6-speed
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Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On!
[Re: wally426ci]
#1758284
03/16/15 03:38 AM
03/16/15 03:38 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157 Mass
DAYCLONA
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Mass
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Quote:
The only reasoning I can think of (without the owner here to state correctly) is shock value. Saying it's a Satellite made to look like a Superbird vs. a real Superbird will definitely raise a few eyebrows on the show circuit.
That's just my I can't throw stones as I changed the color of my car and added a few things.
While it may be for "shock value"?...for some that are seeking a car for a project, they don't want the "fuss" looking for the parts needed to convert/clone a base model, or research what is correct, so the call goes out for a particular model to avoid that hassle...I've mentioned it before in another thread, I have/had a customer that wanted a Superbird, he contacted me thru an associate for the necessary repro parts to convert a 70 RR he had purchased for the project(black California rustfree car!), after visiting his shop, the RR was indeed a V code car, after discussing his build plans, of which a GM LS and OD trans were part of the build, I asked him why he was using the V code rather than a base Sat or 383 RR ?, his response was it was the first RR that he looked at, and had all the performance parts/trim that he needed to make a Superbird from it, and at the right price...I'm sure if he saw a Superbird at the right price it would have been used as well...this guy runs a shop dedicated to Mustangs and Cobras, so what those in the Mopar circles hold dear, those in other automotive circles look at as just machinery, I did manage to score the V code driveline for one of my projects though...
I look forward to seeing this HellCat build on this Superbird, it's currently 1 of 2 Superbird builds going on using Hellcat engines and so called "real" Superbirds...
I think as these cars start to change hands in this "new market" where the resto craze of late is being viewed as passe, more builds will be seen where updated drivelines, suspensions, interiors, etc, etc will be seen/done regardless of the cost, or the vehicle's pedigree
Mike
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Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On!
[Re: wally426ci]
#1758285
03/16/15 07:24 AM
03/16/15 07:24 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157 Mass
DAYCLONA
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
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Quote:
The only reasoning I can think of (without the owner here to state correctly) is shock value. Saying it's a Satellite made to look like a Superbird vs. a real Superbird will definitely raise a few eyebrows on the show circuit.
Here's your answer (from another site) pretty much what I said above in my post
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Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On!
[Re: p d'ro]
#1758286
03/22/15 09:45 AM
03/22/15 09:45 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,212 Minnesota
peabodyracing
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,212
Minnesota
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Thanks Scott for posting. This will be a fun one to watch. I'm sure you knew what you were getting into by posting in the first place.
Funny thing is just last week a local guy stopped at my place looking for an original GTO Judge. I knew a guy in SE MN who was heavy into them, but before I gave him the info, I asked him why he was looking for one. I'm always hesitant to send an unknown individual somebody's way without knowing a bit more of their story.
"I want to pro street it: tubs, lowered, 9" rear, blower", on and on. He turned out to be one of those that couldn't put a sentence together without at least a couple of 4 letter words, normally starting with "F".
I just asked why he didnt locate a GTO or Tempest body and clone it the way he wanted. It would be easier to locate and less expensive to purchase, not to mention the Judge cars are somewhat rare.
"Nope; it's gotta be an original one." Some people just get it in their head and you're not going to change their mind.
Lead, follow or get the hell out of the way
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