Moparts
Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On!
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 02/19/15 06:04 AM
Well the cat is out of the bag now so I'm going to post a recent event many of us on Moparts may not have been aware of.
A little over a year ago I was tasked with locating a Superbird project car to be used as a very high end custom car build. The guidelines were that it had to be a real Superbird (so no clones need apply) and that it would preferably be pretty rough example as to not "kill" a nicer original car in the process of building a custom.
After passing over several cars (most of which were considered too nice to customize) the answer came right here on Moparts. Member "mopar4ya" Dan Mays, posted pics of his rusty example parked in his storage barn with a question concerning it's value. While It was a numbers matching car, it was base model Bird being a basic white on black car, column shift automatic, and a 440 four barrel engine, it also showed all of the signs of a rust belt car and was in miserable shape with rust and rot everywhere. So even though it was a numbers car, it really wouldn't be feasible restoration project and looked to be a perfect candidate for the build.
I asked Dan what he wanted for it and the new owner paid his price, it was sold and transported to it's new home in Southern California. The new owner is Jonathan Ward of
www.icon4x4.com. Jonathon is well known in the custom car circles for his groundbreaking and highly tasteful builds which combine the classics designs of the early years with all of the performance and comfort a modern version might have. Check out his website for more details!
The Superbird is being custom built for one of his clients, it's sure to become something truly special, this is a photo that Hot Rod magazine took to show the "before" version.....I can't wait to see what it becomes! You can follow the build on the Icon website or on Facebook:
Jonathan Ward
Posted By: mattsmopars
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 02/19/15 06:53 PM
Very cool to hear Scott! Thanks for sharing the info on the cars build. I am sure it will come out very nice.
Matt
Posted By: efisixpack
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 02/19/15 09:08 PM
I don't understand the purpose of using a real Superbird. While Im sure the finished product will be interesting and probably very well built, I would bet it's received by the Mopar community much the same way the LS equipped challenger was.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 02/19/15 10:53 PM
Building a clone was definately suggested but the owner is the boss, the decision was soley his own.
Posted By: DPelletier
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 02/20/15 06:02 PM
Quote:
Building a clone was definately suggested but the owner is the boss, the decision was soley his own.
I hear you, but it's still a little disappointing...there are many of us that would love to own a real SB, base model or not. Customs aren't my bag, but it will be interesting to see what becomes of it. Thanks for posting.
Dave
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 02/20/15 08:16 PM
Well I guess the way I see it is "Don't shoot the messenger" and dont blame the builder. I'm a resto purist kinda guy myself but also respect the decisions of others who choose a different direction.
Seriously though, I doubt that a proper restoration of this particular car was ever going to happen (maybe if it were a Hemi) so at least it will live again and in a very nice form. The numbers drivetrain, etc. Is being saved with the car so if anyone is so inclined to reverse the mods someday, they'll be with the car.
For anyone wanting to do one thier way, I guess the answer to that is, go buy one! They still turn up pretty often.
Posted By: DPelletier
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 02/20/15 10:25 PM
Quote:
Well I guess the way I see it is "Don't shoot the messenger" and dont blame the builder. I'm a resto purist kinda guy myself but also respect the decisions of others who choose a different direction.
Seriously though, I doubt that a proper restoration of this particular car was ever going to happen (maybe if it were a Hemi) so at least it will live again and in a very nice form. The numbers drivetrain, etc. Is being saved with the car so if anyone is so inclined to reverse the mods someday, they'll be with the car.
For anyone wanting to do one thier way, I guess the answer to that is, go buy one! They still turn up pretty often.
No shooting or blaming from me....just too bad the Owner didn't go the clone route. It must have been in pretty sad (near rebody shape) to have been an iffy resto candidate if it had an R in the VIN.
Dave
Posted By: MONC
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 02/21/15 04:21 AM
Judging by the website, and it's name, hoping it's not going to be transformed into some 4 X 4 abomination...
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 02/21/15 05:06 AM
No, not a 4x4......Think more on the lines of a Hellcat
Posted By: MONC
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 02/21/15 04:21 PM
Ok well that makes me think of these- not encouraging...
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 02/21/15 05:20 PM
Uhhhhhh, NO!
Think again
*BTW, this is only a guess on the drive train but definitely one option that was considered, most mods will be performance/under the skin oriented.
Posted By: mickm
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 02/23/15 10:27 PM
i don't know that this will ever happen, and i've posted this before in a few threads, but i've always wanted to build a super bird, but it would have to be a clone: mini tubbed to get some good tires under the rear, passon 5 speed, big inch but streetable hemi, front suspension upgrades, not tubular and such, just beefy components, and most of all...
black.
but stock appearing otherwise. not that i could afford it in the first place, but i would never think of doing that to an original super bird.
but yes, to each his own!
Posted By: RSNOMO
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 02/23/15 10:50 PM
Quote:
i would never think of doing that to an original super bird.
Bullseye...
1900 built...
So, maybe 600 left...
Original drivetrain 'birds ain't getting easy to find...
Clone it if it ain't going OEM...
Posted By: grancuda
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 02/24/15 12:07 AM
Quote:
Seriously though, I doubt that a proper restoration of this particular car was ever going to happen (maybe if it were a Hemi) .....
Yep, those 440 4v SuperBirds are pretty much parts cars when they need new sheetmetal.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 02/24/15 12:52 AM
While I wouldn't call it a "parts car" if you saw the underside of the car, (and pretty much anywhere else beyond the outside skin) you'd be a lot less optomistic.
Posted By: RodStRace
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 02/24/15 03:30 AM
I've seen what corndog has done over on the aero cars site with his restos, and I can understand that it would be a lot of work to repair, but I also don't understand requiring a REAL 'bird to modify.
I don't think they all need to be restored to as-factory, but why start with a limited numbers, high buy-in car if you are going to modify it heavily? This one needs to be saved, but if it's going to get typical late model pro touring style drivetrain, suspension and interior mods, the owner could have easily started with a satellite and hung the very nice repop Superbird parts Gregory and others are doing. Would have been easier to tuck in the nose gap and such too.
Posted By: RUNCHARGER
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 02/24/15 03:51 AM
It's one of those deals that it's his car and he can do what he wants with it. I see the other side too, there are lots of 4 bbl cars out there restored already but I think this one had most of it's original parts. Not my car so it won't affect me in any way but it isn't what I would have done.
Sheldon
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 02/24/15 03:59 AM
The owner is the person who needs to be questioned (and he has been). Whatever his reason for wanting a real one is, bottom line, it was his choice and his money.
Don't forget, I'm just the messenger. You guys know my take on keeping things original etc. on rare cars. That said I also have an appreciation for modified cars if they are tastefully done, there's room for all of them in our hobby.
Posted By: mopars_1
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 02/24/15 07:41 AM
Quote:
The owner is the person who needs to be questioned (and he has been). Whatever his reason for wanting a real one is, bottom line, it was his choice and his money.
Don't forget, I'm just the messenger. You guys know my take on keeping things original etc. on rare cars. That said I also have an appreciation for modified cars if they are tastefully done, there's room for all of them in our hobby.
I'm pretty sure no one is pointing fingers at you Scott. I do think it's a shame that a car like this is getting hacked. Rust doesn't scare me one bit, so anything is restorable in my book. I know my dad and I would love to find and restore a wing car, but now that chance just got a little slimmer..
The other day someone posted a clone superbird that already had a lot of the hard work done for mid 20's.. why not spring for that??
Posted By: sixpackbee
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 02/24/15 05:07 PM
I've done cars that bad and it was restorable but it would have required a max effort. I too wish it were returned to as made condition but lets see how he does his modifications. If done right, and smartly, it can be done without major hacking and could be returned to stock with a little investment of time, if so desired, by someone down the road.
Posted By: fc7_plumcrazy
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 02/25/15 12:53 PM
everyone can do with his car what he wants to. That is allright.
But if I would have been asked for help in finding a Superbird for this Custom project I would have refused to help/support finding one.
Carsten
Posted By: hemirdrnnr
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 02/25/15 01:42 PM
That's what makes the world go round everyone views things in there own way. I look at it like the car will be saved. Maybe the next owner will return it to original.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 02/25/15 03:31 PM
Sure Carsten, I could have taken that tact, but It's not like I would have been preventing the guy from finding one anyway. Keep in mind that the original drivetrain is being saved with the car and it will always be possible to reverse the mods. Any number of years it exists as a custom will be better than more years rotting into the ground that's for sure.
Posted By: DPelletier
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 02/25/15 06:38 PM
I was certainly not pointing any fingers at you, Scott. I suppose it's natural that many people on this forum would express thoughts similar to those expressed here but depending on the extent (severity?
) of the modifications, the point that the car is better off than sitting around rusting (like the one Ryan posted a couple weeks ago for eg.), certainly has merit.
Anyhow, I know you have a thick skin but thanks for posting anyway. If nothing else it will be interesting to see what gets done to it.
Dave
Posted By: mickm
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 02/26/15 01:23 AM
Quote:
The other day someone posted a clone superbird that already had a lot of the hard work done for mid 20's.. why not spring for that??
posted where?
Posted By: mopars_1
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 02/26/15 01:53 AM
Quote:
Quote:
The other day someone posted a clone superbird that already had a lot of the hard work done for mid 20's.. why not spring for that??
posted where?
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...e=2#Post8427766
its not perfect, but its got a good start on a super bird conversion.
Posted By: mickm
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 02/26/15 05:31 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The other day someone posted a clone superbird that already had a lot of the hard work done for mid 20's.. why not spring for that??
posted where?
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...e=2#Post8427766
Thanks!
its not perfect, but its got a good start on a super bird conversion.
Posted By: SomeCarGuy
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 02/26/15 10:55 AM
Is the owner a Chevy guy? Ive noticed they tend to not give a rip about tearing into a numbers/rare car. As we can already see, the reception will be mostly head shaking. Could be just for shock value.
Posted By: fc7_plumcrazy
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 02/26/15 01:53 PM
Quote:
Sure Carsten, I could have taken that tact, but It's not like I would have been preventing the guy from finding one anyway. Keep in mind that the original drivetrain is being saved with the car and it will always be possible to reverse the mods. Any number of years it exists as a custom will be better than more years rotting into the ground that's for sure.
Point taken.
At least you could influence that they didn't took a car in better condition, a more desireable drivtrain or colour combo.
I still liked it more being rusty in Dans garage then being heavily customized. I am sure it didn't get worse while owned by Dan.
Carsten
Posted By: wally426ci
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 02/26/15 02:06 PM
The only reasoning I can think of (without the owner here to state correctly) is shock value. Saying it's a Satellite made to look like a Superbird vs. a real Superbird will definitely raise a few eyebrows on the show circuit.
That's just my
I can't throw stones as I changed the color of my car and added a few things.
Posted By: gtx6970
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 02/26/15 04:42 PM
The fact its getting saved 'so to speak' is a plus in my mind. I got a feeling Dan had lost interest in restoring said car.
So progress, is still progress.
Would I have started with a real Bird ? No. But then again its not my car or money. So my opinion is moot point.
Owning a shop I do what the customer wants. Whether or not I agree with said mods is irrelavant.
Posted By: sixpacksteve
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 02/28/15 02:47 PM
Funny, if this was 1975 No one would care! just go on cars in barns website and you'll see an Awful lot of wing cars Rotting! at least this ones being restored so to speak. 99% of the ones on BJ auctions
you'll only see on BJ's auctions at a later time!
Posted By: mopars_1
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 03/01/15 12:39 AM
Quote:
Funny, if this was 1975 No one would care! just go on cars in barns website and you'll see an Awful lot of wing cars Rotting! at least this ones being restored so to speak. 99% of the ones on BJ auctions
you'll only see on BJ's auctions at a later time!
Just because they're on that site doesn't meen they are 'for sale'.. I don't recall seeing this bird on the open market, but if it was, Im sure someone would have scooped it up for an OE type of restoration. If the price was right, I know my dad and I might have took a crack at it. Wasn't at the right place at the right time I guess.
Posted By: PLATINUM6BBL
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 03/01/15 05:26 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Funny, if this was 1975 No one would care! just go on cars in barns website and you'll see an Awful lot of wing cars Rotting! at least this ones being restored so to speak. 99% of the ones on BJ auctions
you'll only see on BJ's auctions at a later time!
Just because they're on that site doesn't meen they are 'for sale'.. I don't recall seeing this bird on the open market, but if it was, Im sure someone would have scooped it up for an OE type of restoration. If the price was right, I know my dad and I might have took a crack at it. Wasn't at the right place at the right time I guess.
Was posted in the Ebay/WIW section and took off from there. Never hit the open market.
Posted By: mopars_1
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 03/01/15 06:09 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Funny, if this was 1975 No one would care! just go on cars in barns website and you'll see an Awful lot of wing cars Rotting! at least this ones being restored so to speak. 99% of the ones on BJ auctions
you'll only see on BJ's auctions at a later time!
Just because they're on that site doesn't meen they are 'for sale'.. I don't recall seeing this bird on the open market, but if it was, Im sure someone would have scooped it up for an OE type of restoration. If the price was right, I know my dad and I might have took a crack at it. Wasn't at the right place at the right time I guess.
Was posted in the Ebay/WIW section and took off from there. Never hit the open market.
that's sort of what I assumed, but I didn't research to see if it had been on ebay or not..
Posted By: dvw
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 03/02/15 03:14 AM
Why is it an "original" car can't be modified? Cause it's worth less? It's the owners money. It's the owners car. If someone wants to save a basket case and spend more than the value of the car when it's finished they should go right ahead and do that. We have a rule around here. We don't build by committee.
Doug
Posted By: mopars_1
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 03/02/15 08:51 AM
Quote:
Why is it an "original" car can't be modified? Cause it's worth less? It's the owners money. It's the owners car. If someone wants to save a basket case and spend more than the value of the car when it's finished they should go right ahead and do that. We have a rule around here. We don't build by committee.
Doug
I realize this and its been mentioned previously if you have read the comments at all. It's his car and he can waste his money as he pleases, BUT why start out by seeking out a very limited production, desirable, #'s matching car to modify when a cheaper alternative that's much easier to obtain and cheaper to start with? I posted a link with a perfect car to start with above. Just seems foolish and slightly arrogant if you ask me. As for the 'we don't build be committee' comment last I checked, I can still put my two cents in being this is a public forum. I just hope this is tastefully done and easily reversible. I guess we'll see..
Posted By: gtsuperbee
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 03/02/15 07:29 PM
I don't have a problem with mods to a rare car. At least someone is throwing some money at it. Pretty much everything I own is modded. There is room for everyone in the hobby to do their thing. Personally, I would walk past 100 restored birds to check out the one with mods... but that's just me. The car was very rough, and somebody wants to put the time and effort to save it. That's all that matters to me.
Posted By: SattyNoCar
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 03/03/15 02:00 AM
Quote:
Judging by the website, and it's name, hoping it's not going to be transformed into some 4 X 4 abomination...
How about crawling out from under your rock. ICON builds more than 4X4's. I love the Derelict cars....original looking, totally new/modern underneath.
ICON Derelict
video
Posted By: p d'ro
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 03/03/15 05:21 PM
As a Bronco owner, I love ICON builds, although I would never spring six figures for a Bronco. They have incredible skills and this will be badass.
Everyone loves the Superbird and Daytona race ars like Big Willy. What is the difference?
Posted By: mopars_1
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 03/03/15 06:17 PM
Quote:
As a Bronco owner, I love ICON builds, although I would never spring six figures for a Bronco. They have incredible skills and this will be badass.
Everyone loves the Superbird and Daytona race ars like Big Willy. What is the difference?
Because those are recognizable pieces of drag history. This is not, apples and oranges.
Posted By: p d'ro
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 03/03/15 07:32 PM
Quote:
Quote:
As a Bronco owner, I love ICON builds, although I would never spring six figures for a Bronco. They have incredible skills and this will be badass.
Everyone loves the Superbird and Daytona race ars like Big Willy. What is the difference?
Because those are recognizable pieces of drag history. This is not, apples and oranges.
.
I guess my theory is that to become pieces of drag history they had to be cut and mangled. I do get your point that back then they were ugly cars that couldn't sell for various reasons.
Maybe the new owner wants something he can road race or do SCCA stuff. I would love to have one with coil overs, slammed low, 4 wheel discs, a new gen EFI hemi, etc.. To me they look so much better than an OEM skinny tire show car. If I had a survivor, ok leave it, but this rusted out one is free game. Not a rare hemi 4 speed..
I like this one..
Posted By: taxidermy man
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 03/05/15 04:08 AM
Quote:
I don't have a problem with mods to a rare car. At least someone is throwing some money at it. Pretty much everything I own is modded. There is room for everyone in the hobby to do their thing. Personally, I would walk past 100 restored birds to check out the one with mods... but that's just me. The car was very rough, and somebody wants to put the time and effort to save it. That's all that matters to me.
BINGO
Posted By: b5a12bee
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 03/05/15 04:43 AM
After looking at the one pic of the car, it doesn't look like much of the sheet metal can be saved and I could only imagine what the underside looks like. After you replaced all the original sheet metal and frame rails and what not, how much of the original car would you have anyway? I like cars to be restored to original as much as the next guy, but I don't see any harm here.
Posted By: MONC
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 03/06/15 01:36 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Judging by the website, and it's name, hoping it's not going to be transformed into some 4 X 4 abomination...
How about crawling out from under your rock. ICON builds more than 4X4's. I love the Derelict cars....original looking, totally new/modern underneath.
ICON Derelict
video
The derelict car thing is cool, I've seen that video a while back.
Ultimate sleepers.
A Superbird in it's original form does NOT look like a sleeper.
So where are they going to take it?
Hmmm, they do 4 X 4 s too, don't they?
Relax John, just messing with you.
Guess you want me to crawl back under my rock...
We'll see what they do with it and let the masses decide...
Posted By: JcodeCharger
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 03/06/15 06:51 AM
Its a shame because I tried to buy that very Superbird and plan to restore it. I was told was sold just after the talks started. What a shame. Affordable birds in project form are rare. Not mad at you Scott, just that the Superbirds and Daytonas have become the flavor of the week for the "more dollars than sense crowd".
Posted By: jeff968
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 03/07/15 12:07 AM
Quote:
The guidelines were that it had to be a real Superbird (so no clones need apply)
Add me to the "I don't get it" list. I know, you are just the messenger but a nice 1970 Satellite would have produced the exact same results sans VIN and without the loss of a special car.
If I were to see it all done I would look at it but leave it shaking my head. IMHO of course.
Posted By: dvw
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 03/07/15 04:13 PM
It continues to astound me that people think a car with 90% of the parts replaced with aftermarket sheet metal is "saved and original". Do you really think if a basket case such as this with aftermarket parts (and a lot of them) most likely mig welded is any different than adding Superbird parts to a 70 Belvedere that was rust free? Why the VIN? I say build what you want, not what others think should be done with it. There are still plenty of rust buckets around. If you guys think they should be restored back to original, buy them up.
Doug
Posted By: RSNOMO
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 03/07/15 05:40 PM
Quote:
Do you really think if a basket case such as this with aftermarket parts (and a lot of them) most likely mig welded is any different than adding Superbird parts to a 70 Belvedere that was rust free?
Yep...
Because if the cowl, and core support numbers remain intact, it still gives provenance that it is indeed the real thing...
Along with the rest of the documentation..
Posted By: mopars_1
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 03/07/15 08:11 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Do you really think if a basket case such as this with aftermarket parts (and a lot of them) most likely mig welded is any different than adding Superbird parts to a 70 Belvedere that was rust free?
Yep...
Because if the cowl, and core support numbers remain intact, it still gives provenance that it is indeed the real thing...
Along with the rest of the documentation..
and the obvious difference in initial price tag.
Posted By: Darius
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 03/07/15 11:24 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Do you really think if a basket case such as this with aftermarket parts (and a lot of them) most likely mig welded is any different than adding Superbird parts to a 70 Belvedere that was rust free?
Yep...
Because if the cowl, and core support numbers remain intact, it still gives provenance that it is indeed the real thing...
Along with the rest of the documentation..
and the obvious difference in initial price tag.
This whole discussion about "original" had me laughing (yet again) the other day. I was presenting a proposal to a woman who lives in an Eichler home. In Calif it was a "mid century modern" style home built in the mid 50's -mid 60's.
They are pieces of crap! 2x6T&G roof over exposed post and beam construction, 1/4" PLYWOOD on the walls, NO sheetrock, and ZERO insulation.
This woman was all out of sorts because to change the ALUMINUM wiring we would have to remove the wood paneling and new stuff just would not look right to a potential buyer!
Nevermind all the other non original stuff , like HVAC ducting exposed on the roof after the in the slab boiler heat finally failed.
Too much emphasis placed on "original" stuff. Did anyone notice the $$$ flying out at the January auctions for "restomod" style cars?????????
Posted By: dvw
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 03/08/15 12:13 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Do you really think if a basket case such as this with aftermarket parts (and a lot of them) most likely mig welded is any different than adding Superbird parts to a 70 Belvedere that was rust free?
Yep...
Because if the cowl, and core support numbers remain intact, it still gives provenance that it is indeed the real thing...
Along with the rest of the documentation..
Again makes me laugh. The "real thing". How much has to be left to make it real? A Belvedere (factory metal, welds,flaws,etc.) has more in relation to a factory car than a Superbird tag stuck on $20K worth of Chinese replacement sheet metal. I could care less if the tag says what it started life as something rare. I'm not saying to fake one for profit. But lets face it this is a Hobby for 99% of us, not a business. I can't buy that a 2" tag makes a difference unless it's someones ego. Just my 2 cents. I guess that's why I cut stuff up and race it.
Doug
Posted By: mopars_1
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 03/08/15 01:39 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Do you really think if a basket case such as this with aftermarket parts (and a lot of them) most likely mig welded is any different than adding Superbird parts to a 70 Belvedere that was rust free?
Yep...
Because if the cowl, and core support numbers remain intact, it still gives provenance that it is indeed the real thing...
Along with the rest of the documentation..
Again makes me laugh. The "real thing". How much has to be left to make it real? A Belvedere (factory metal, welds,flaws,etc.) has more in relation to a factory car than a Superbird tag stuck on $20K worth of Chinese replacement sheet metal. I could care less if the tag says what it started life as something rare. I'm not saying to fake one for profit. But lets face it this is a Hobby for 99% of us, not a business. I can't buy that a 2" tag makes a difference unless it's someones ego. Just my 2 cents. I guess that's why I cut stuff up and race it.
Doug
Are you implying that at a certain point, documented number don't mean anything? I guess the rest of the car world respectfully disagrees with you on that one. To each his own though.
Sounds like you're arguing against yourself. If this isn't a real superbird anymore and the numbers now don't mean anything, why bother sticking serious money into it rather than get a nice clean belvedere, buy good reproduction superbird pieces and save yourself a pile of money in the end while letting the next guy deal with the headache of restoring it?
Posted By: Redbird
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 03/08/15 02:44 AM
For me, this is one of the few rust bucket wing car projects that I like.
If year one would have started with a real S/B like this for their B-J car, I might have felt different about it.
I've seen so many restored rust bucket wing cars that 10 years later are advertised as originals that I find this refreshing.
Posted By: dvw
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 03/08/15 04:38 AM
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Do you really think if a basket case such as this with aftermarket parts (and a lot of them) most likely mig welded is any different than adding Superbird parts to a 70 Belvedere that was rust free?
Yep...
Because if the cowl, and core support numbers remain intact, it still gives provenance that it is indeed the real thing...
Along with the rest of the documentation..
Again makes me laugh. The "real thing". How much has to be left to make it real? A Belvedere (factory metal, welds,flaws,etc.) has more in relation to a factory car than a Superbird tag stuck on $20K worth of Chinese replacement sheet metal. I could care less if the tag says what it started life as something rare. I'm not saying to fake one for profit. But lets face it this is a Hobby for 99% of us, not a business. I can't buy that a 2" tag makes a difference unless it's someones ego. Just my 2 cents. I guess that's why I cut stuff up and race it.
Doug
Are you implying that at a certain point, documented number don't mean anything? I guess the rest of the car world respectfully disagrees with you on that one. To each his own though.
Sounds like you're arguing against yourself. If this isn't a real superbird anymore and the numbers now don't mean anything, why bother sticking serious money into it rather than get a nice clean belvedere, buy good reproduction superbird pieces and save yourself a pile of money in the end while letting the next guy deal with the headache of restoring it?
Personally that's what I would have done. But my point is its the owners car. His build, his money, the finished product is up to him. I think people get hung up on what they perceive a car is worth rather than enjoying it. To each there own.
Doug
Posted By: BMChrysler68
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 03/11/15 05:04 PM
I'm just excited by the possibility of a 'bird that doesn't have Goodyear Polyglas on it. I'll be watching.
Posted By: DAYCLONA
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 03/16/15 07:38 AM
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The only reasoning I can think of (without the owner here to state correctly) is shock value. Saying it's a Satellite made to look like a Superbird vs. a real Superbird will definitely raise a few eyebrows on the show circuit.
That's just my I can't throw stones as I changed the color of my car and added a few things.
While it may be for "shock value"?...for some that are seeking a car for a project, they don't want the "fuss" looking for the parts needed to convert/clone a base model, or research what is correct, so the call goes out for a particular model to avoid that hassle...I've mentioned it before in another thread, I have/had a customer that wanted a Superbird, he contacted me thru an associate for the necessary repro parts to convert a 70 RR he had purchased for the project(black California rustfree car!), after visiting his shop, the RR was indeed a V code car, after discussing his build plans, of which a GM LS and OD trans were part of the build, I asked him why he was using the V code rather than a base Sat or 383 RR ?, his response was it was the first RR that he looked at, and had all the performance parts/trim that he needed to make a Superbird from it, and at the right price...I'm sure if he saw a Superbird at the right price it would have been used as well...this guy runs a shop dedicated to Mustangs and Cobras, so what those in the Mopar circles hold dear, those in other automotive circles look at as just machinery, I did manage to score the V code driveline for one of my projects though...
I look forward to seeing this HellCat build on this Superbird, it's currently 1 of 2 Superbird builds going on using Hellcat engines and so called "real" Superbirds...
I think as these cars start to change hands in this "new market" where the resto craze of late is being viewed as passe, more builds will be seen where updated drivelines, suspensions, interiors, etc, etc will be seen/done regardless of the cost, or the vehicle's pedigree
Mike
Posted By: DAYCLONA
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 03/16/15 11:24 AM
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The only reasoning I can think of (without the owner here to state correctly) is shock value. Saying it's a Satellite made to look like a Superbird vs. a real Superbird will definitely raise a few eyebrows on the show circuit.
Here's your answer (from another site) pretty much what I said above in my post
Posted By: peabodyracing
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 03/22/15 01:45 PM
Thanks Scott for posting. This will be a fun one to watch. I'm sure you knew what you were getting into by posting in the first place.
Funny thing is just last week a local guy stopped at my place looking for an original GTO Judge. I knew a guy in SE MN who was heavy into them, but before I gave him the info, I asked him why he was looking for one. I'm always hesitant to send an unknown individual somebody's way without knowing a bit more of their story.
"I want to pro street it: tubs, lowered, 9" rear, blower", on and on.
He turned out to be one of those that couldn't put a sentence together without at least a couple of 4 letter words, normally starting with "F".
I just asked why he didnt locate a GTO or Tempest body and clone it the way he wanted. It would be easier to locate and less expensive to purchase, not to mention the Judge cars are somewhat rare.
"Nope; it's gotta be an original one." Some people just get it in their head and you're not going to change their mind.
Posted By: Stevo427
Re: Wild Superbird Build To Keep An Eye On! - 03/29/15 10:34 PM
I can see the reason for wanting a real superbird and not a clone. Same goes for my roadrunner that I'm making a street/strip car. I could of went out and bought a satellite for way cheaper (and in better condition) but thats not what I wanted..I Wanted a ROADRUNNER and I didn't want to have to explain to everyone that it's a clone. Car would of probably just sat rotting way for another 10 years anyways.