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Re: nhra to pull street outlaw license if dont stop.....
[Re: slantzilla]
#1757532
03/08/15 05:22 AM
03/08/15 05:22 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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Quote:
Quote:
Lets look at this another way. People die in traffic accidents every day. How often does the driver get charged with murder? Nearly always manslaughter if anything. Because there IS NO INTENT. Sure these guys were doing something illegal, but they were not TRYING to hurt anyone. Same with traffic accidents. You run a light, a sign, are speeding, reckless driving or any number of other things.........you are doing something ILLEGAL. You hurt someone else, depending on circumstances, you MAY be held accountable, but I don't recall many, if any cases where a murder conviction was handed down. It is after all an ACCIDENT.
But by California law street racing is a felony.
You sure about that? I have heard that rumor, but found nothing to back it up. All I see posted if that your first street racing conviction, you face a min of 24 hrs in jail, a max of 90 days and car impounded for 30 days
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Re: nhra to pull street outlaw license if dont stop.....
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#1757533
03/08/15 07:45 AM
03/08/15 07:45 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,182
Park Forest, IL
slantzilla
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,182
Park Forest, IL
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Quote:
But by California law street racing is a felony.
You sure about that? I have heard that rumor, but found nothing to back it up. All I see posted if that your first street racing conviction, you face a min of 24 hrs in jail, a max of 90 days and car impounded for 30 days
Fair enough. I spent some time digging and you are correct. I found no proof that street racing in and of itself is a felony. However, once something bad happens resulting in death, Implied Malice takes over and all active participants can be charged with murder, whether you are the driver or passenger in either car, starter, or promoter.
I found this on a California legal site:
"B. Implied Malice Murder
The second category of second-degree murder is implied malice murder, which is an unintentional killing caused by extremely reckless behavior. California law provides two types of implied malice murder: depraved heart murder and provocative act murder. In California, the courts do not use the term "depraved heart murder." The concept is instead discussed in terms of implied malice. However, California courts do utilize the term "provocative act murder." These two categories of implied malice share the same mens rea requirement of extreme recklessness. The primary difference between them is that in provocative act murder, liability attaches because of a particular causal pattern involving a defendant's action and a third party's reaction that kills the victim.
The two basic elements of implied malice murder are: an unlawful act resulting in dangerous consequences, and the defendant knew about the danger of the acts, yet consciously and deliberately disregarded the danger to human life. These elements together show that the defendant acted with extreme recklessness.
In People v. Watson, the California Supreme Court defined implied malice as a subjective determination that the defendant in fact realized that his actions had "a high probability ... [of] ... resulting in death ... [and yet acted] with a base antisocial motive and with a wanton disregard for human life." However, the prosecution does not need to prove that the defendant intended to kill."
I did find cases where California has gotten murder convictions from street racing wrecks too.
"Everybody funny, now you funny too."
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Re: nhra to pull street outlaw license if dont stop.....
[Re: bigtimeauto]
#1757536
03/08/15 11:17 AM
03/08/15 11:17 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,030
NH
torredcuda
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,030
NH
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Quote:
Quote:
Indulge me for a moment while I play devil's advocate....
Why does the law and or courts view a spectator's death at a street race any differently than they do at a sanctioned NHRA event?
Everybody that's there knows there's risk involved.
Everybody that's there is doing so of their own free will.
One venue was "free" for the spectators while the other charged a fee to enter.
Why is the driver of an NHRA race car not charged with murder if a spectator is killed?
Because a NHRA race is LEGAL.
The spectators at an illegal street race are involved in an illegal activity by being there and know the risks, they are not innocent bystanders or at a venue where safety measures hae been taken to prevent injuries.
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Re: nhra to pull street outlaw license if dont stop.....
[Re: Duner]
#1757540
03/08/15 01:52 PM
03/08/15 01:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
Why would legal vs illegal make any difference to some ambulance chaser when it comes to looking for deep pockets for a payday?
I certainly realize that laws are written and enforced to attempt to keep people in line and for the safety of others, but bad stuff happens all the time. Both the racers and spectators showed up to a known illegal activity. The drivers chose poorly by racing in those conditions. The dead spectators chose poorly by placing themselves in a spot where somebody else's mistake would cost them. All involved share guilt and blame.
well said and a good attorney will point that out.
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Re: nhra to pull street outlaw license if dont stop.....
[Re: torredcuda]
#1757543
03/08/15 07:50 PM
03/08/15 07:50 PM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,422
Pittsburgh PA
Eric
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,422
Pittsburgh PA
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Moral of this whole story....take it to the track and don't pretend you are doing otherwise on TV.
5.53 @ 125 1/8th on the launch control..more left in her!
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Re: nhra to pull street outlaw license if dont stop.....
[Re: Duner]
#1757545
03/09/15 12:08 PM
03/09/15 12:08 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,953
Houston, Texas
TheOtherDodge
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,953
Houston, Texas
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Quote:
Why would legal vs illegal make any difference to some ambulance chaser when it comes to looking for deep pockets for a payday?
I certainly realize that laws are written and enforced to attempt to keep people in line and for the safety of others, but bad stuff happens all the time. Both the racers and spectators showed up to a known illegal activity. The drivers chose poorly by racing in those conditions. The dead spectators chose poorly by placing themselves in a spot where somebody else's mistake would cost them. All involved share guilt and blame.
Except attorneys will state that those that are guilty of watching do not deserve the death penalty. There are plenty of cases similar... people cutting across private property falling into a well suing and winning, etc.
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Re: nhra to pull street outlaw license if dont stop.....
[Re: TheOtherDodge]
#1757546
03/09/15 12:17 PM
03/09/15 12:17 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,180
PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,180
PA.
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I know one thing, its Monday night and I am going to miss watching Street Outlaws as their season has ended. And no, watching it did not turn me into a street racer again even though in my younger years I was addicted to street racing. Breaking Bad did turn me into a dope dealer, Have Gun Will Travel didn't turn me into a bounty hunter and Matlock didn't turn me into a lawyer. 
1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: nhra to pull street outlaw license if dont stop.....
[Re: Eric]
#1757549
03/09/15 06:13 PM
03/09/15 06:13 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,353
Aurora, Oh.
max_maniac
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,353
Aurora, Oh.
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Quote:
Hey John...I'm running a little low...can you hook a brother up?....  
Now I see how he can afford to go 10.5 racing 
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Re: nhra to pull street outlaw license if dont stop.....
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#1757551
03/09/15 06:18 PM
03/09/15 06:18 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,180
PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,180
PA.
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I was wondering why the helicopters were flying over my house all day.  John must need more sleep.
1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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