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Re: Updates on the Edelbrock Victor Installed Height Saga
[Re: GTX MATT]
#1753573
02/13/15 10:15 PM
02/13/15 10:15 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,100
Rogue River, OR
Jeremiah
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,100
Rogue River, OR
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Quote:
Not trying to troll you here but I don't think you would have had the clearance issue if you were running Harland Sharp rockers. They don't have a gentle radius like the Hughes pieces. They cost literally 2X + as much though
Not trolling at all. I was going to go T&D or Jesel on one of my identical 511" short blocks so that will be next. I was also going to do another set of Victors but am pretty interested in either -1's or something comparable. I'd like to see some detail shots of the HS offset rockers for the Victors if anyone has any. I was not super impressed with the fit and finish of the Hughes rockers but figured I'd see how they work out. I am also going to replace the adjusters with some Smith Brothers stuff. Should have just bought the T&D's at this point. We shall see how it works out. 
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Re: Updates on the Edelbrock Victor Installed Height Saga
[Re: dvw]
#1753574
02/13/15 10:17 PM
02/13/15 10:17 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,100
Rogue River, OR
Jeremiah
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,100
Rogue River, OR
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Quote:
Wouldn't take a free pair of Victors. I can't believe in this day and age that a major company could not only design but build a part that is so screwed up. Guess they never heard of CAD
Doug
Thank you! I keep saying that this "race oriented" cylinder head has really got one over on me and people make excuses for Edelbrock. I'm not excusing anyone. If I turned stuff like that out at work my customers would burn me at the stake lol.
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Re: Updates on the Edelbrock Victor Installed Height Saga
[Re: 451Mopar]
#1753575
02/13/15 10:20 PM
02/13/15 10:20 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,100
Rogue River, OR
Jeremiah
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,100
Rogue River, OR
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Quote:
This weekend I am going to cut up an old set of valves, drill and tap the head portion and weld a 1/4"x20 tpi bolt to the stem to make some adjustable length mockup valves for my Victor heads, so I could mockup the rocker arm height for the max wedge rocker arm blocks. I just need to check if my old valves (from my B1 B/S heads) are 11/32" or 3/8"?
Be careful using the rocker arm shims. I'm not sure if that is why I split the center rocker stand on my old set of victor heads.
I will say this new set looks like a better casting quality than the old set.
Please let us know what you find. I was looking up valves and the intake was a shelf part but finding a long enough exhaust valve would be tough. I don't understand why they don't make the exhaust valve a little longer than the intake to make up for the wider margin to face distance on the exhaust. Am I missing something here?
I know this seems overboard to some of you but I'm trying to drive this thing as well as track time so getting it right the first time is very necessary in order to have fun at this.
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Re: Updates on the Edelbrock Victor Installed Height Saga
[Re: Jeremiah]
#1753576
02/13/15 10:43 PM
02/13/15 10:43 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,008
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,008
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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Quote:
Quote:
This weekend I am going to cut up an old set of valves, drill and tap the head portion and weld a 1/4"x20 tpi bolt to the stem to make some adjustable length mockup valves for my Victor heads, so I could mockup the rocker arm height for the max wedge rocker arm blocks. I just need to check if my old valves (from my B1 B/S heads) are 11/32" or 3/8"?
Be careful using the rocker arm shims. I'm not sure if that is why I split the center rocker stand on my old set of victor heads.
I will say this new set looks like a better casting quality than the old set.
Please let us know what you find. I was looking up valves and the intake was a shelf part but finding a long enough exhaust valve would be tough. I don't understand why they don't make the exhaust valve a little longer than the intake to make up for the wider margin to face distance on the exhaust. Am I missing something here?
I know this seems overboard to some of you but I'm trying to drive this thing as well as track time so getting it right the first time is very necessary in order to have fun at this.
I would never shim rocker shafts just on what little I know about the stresses they create. simply put, in order to not put all the load on the outer edge of the rocker stand, the shims would have to be thinner at the edges than the center. To see this, all you need to do is cut a piece of tubing length wise into 1/3s and stack them. The problem shims create will become obvious.
I would think that in most cases where a fairly high lift roller is going to be used, lowering the rocker stands might be needed rather than shimming anyway?
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: Updates on the Edelbrock Victor Installed Height Saga
[Re: gregsdart]
#1753578
02/14/15 12:31 AM
02/14/15 12:31 AM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 561
USA
B3RE
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 561
USA
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
This weekend I am going to cut up an old set of valves, drill and tap the head portion and weld a 1/4"x20 tpi bolt to the stem to make some adjustable length mockup valves for my Victor heads, so I could mockup the rocker arm height for the max wedge rocker arm blocks. I just need to check if my old valves (from my B1 B/S heads) are 11/32" or 3/8"?
Be careful using the rocker arm shims. I'm not sure if that is why I split the center rocker stand on my old set of victor heads.
I will say this new set looks like a better casting quality than the old set.
Please let us know what you find. I was looking up valves and the intake was a shelf part but finding a long enough exhaust valve would be tough. I don't understand why they don't make the exhaust valve a little longer than the intake to make up for the wider margin to face distance on the exhaust. Am I missing something here?
I know this seems overboard to some of you but I'm trying to drive this thing as well as track time so getting it right the first time is very necessary in order to have fun at this.
I would never shim rocker shafts just on what little I know about the stresses they create. simply put, in order to not put all the load on the outer edge of the rocker stand, the shims would have to be thinner at the edges than the center. To see this, all you need to do is cut a piece of tubing length wise into 1/3s and stack them. The problem shims create will become obvious.
I would think that in most cases where a fairly high lift roller is going to be used, lowering the rocker stands might be needed rather than shimming anyway?
Well, I did the math today for the OP's kit, and no, the shafts do not have to go down. They still need to go up, and there should be no clearance issues with any of the retainers.
Also, I don't make shims. Shims are flat stock. I make shaft spacers from billet bar stock with proper radii. They aren't stressing anything.
This saga is going to have a happy ending, as far as the rocker geometry is concerned.
Mike Beachel
I didn't write the rules of math nor create the laws of physics, I am just bound by them.
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Re: Updates on the Edelbrock Victor Installed Height Saga
[Re: BradH]
#1753579
02/14/15 02:54 AM
02/14/15 02:54 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
Taking time off to work on my car
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Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Quote:
Quote:
Now to my question...why?
Uhhhh... 'cuz somebody effed up?
I'll check my Hughes offset intakes & standard exhausts and see if there is a similar issue, but I don't recall noticing anything wrong when they've been mocked up on a head before.
Just spent some time giving my Hughes rockers (1.6 offset int, 1.5 offset int, 1.5 std exh) a close  and mine are all consistent w/ respect to roller pivot location. They all look basically like your offset intake, not your exhaust (which appears to have had the roller pin installed too low in the body).
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Re: Updates on the Edelbrock Victor Installed Height Saga
[Re: BradH]
#1753581
02/14/15 12:46 PM
02/14/15 12:46 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,317
Ohio
jlatessa
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,317
Ohio
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I see on Hughs' installation instructions, they address the shim problem with instructions to trim the ends to avoid undue side stress on the rocker pedestals. Shims to my feelings are problematic because of the way we're introducing something into the original design that is possibly degrading it. My  Joe
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Re: Updates on the Edelbrock Victor Installed Height Saga
[Re: Jeremiah]
#1753582
02/14/15 01:38 PM
02/14/15 01:38 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 485
Central California
MoParFish
mopar
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mopar
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 485
Central California
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Quote:
I'd like to see some detail shots of the HS offset rockers for the Victors if anyone has any. I was not super impressed with the fit and finish of the Hughes rockers but figured I'd see how they work out. I am also going to replace the adjusters with some Smith Brothers stuff. Should have just bought the T&D's at this point. We shall see how it works out.
Here's a couple
Also, here's a link to a past thread with some pics.  https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...part=1&vc=1
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Re: Updates on the Edelbrock Victor Installed Height Saga
[Re: 451Mopar]
#1753588
02/14/15 02:42 PM
02/14/15 02:42 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 485
Central California
MoParFish
mopar
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mopar
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 485
Central California
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Quote:
What is the offset on the H&S rockers? I think the ones for the INDY heads are 0.800"?
My T&D rockers for the MW Victors are 0.725" offset, and I think the standard port Victors are a 0.600" offset?
HS Intake offset for the standard or MW Victors is .650" I am running MW. I'm also using Comp 87019-16 lifters with .210 PR seat offset on intake. I hindsight I should have used the standard 829-16 solid body lifters and just done a little more clearencing for pusrods.
http://www.harlandsharp.com/mopar_vr_indy.htm
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Re: Updates on the Edelbrock Victor Installed Height Saga
[Re: MoParFish]
#1753590
02/15/15 06:17 PM
02/15/15 06:17 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
master
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master
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
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Quote:
Quote:
What is the offset on the H&S rockers? I think the ones for the INDY heads are 0.800"?
My T&D rockers for the MW Victors are 0.725" offset, and I think the standard port Victors are a 0.600" offset?
HS Intake offset for the standard or MW Victors is .650" I am running MW. I'm also using Comp 87019-16 lifters with .210 PR seat offset on intake. I hindsight I should have used the standard 829-16 solid body lifters and just done a little more clearencing for pusrods.
http://www.harlandsharp.com/mopar_vr_indy.htm
what is wrong with the offset lifters?
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Re: Updates on the Edelbrock Victor Installed Height Saga
[Re: 451Mopar]
#1753591
02/15/15 07:21 PM
02/15/15 07:21 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 485
Central California
MoParFish
mopar
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mopar
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 485
Central California
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
What is the offset on the H&S rockers? I think the ones for the INDY heads are 0.800"?
My T&D rockers for the MW Victors are 0.725" offset, and I think the standard port Victors are a 0.600" offset?
HS Intake offset for the standard or MW Victors is .650" I am running MW. I'm also using Comp 87019-16 lifters with .210 PR seat offset on intake. I hindsight I should have used the standard 829-16 solid body lifters and just done a little more clearencing for pusrods.
http://www.harlandsharp.com/mopar_vr_indy.htm
what is wrong with the offset lifters?
The 87019s have an oil band and, I beleive, have a bit shorter body than the 829s. Once together and running, I wasn't likng the oil pressure when warm(about 10psi at idle in gear after a pass). When I put it all together, the top of the band was pretty close to the top of the lifter bore at full lift in an un-bushed stock block. I figured it was losing oil volume past lifters. I ended up dropping a steel dowel down the passenger side sending unit hole at back of block to limit oil to drivers side lifters. This brought oil pressure back to a comfortable range. FWIW Here's a link to another members thread with similar issues and posted some pics of what I did.
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...rue#Post8241605
Also, for what it's worth, the 87019s are Not pushrod oiling but do have the small edm? hole at bottom of the band.
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