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Re: Engine build Dilema... Which way to go????
[Re: DemonDust]
#1753401
02/13/15 12:58 AM
02/13/15 12:58 AM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,499
San Antonio,TX
440W8 Duster
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,499
San Antonio,TX
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Jesse give Diamond a call to. You can send them the old piston get the bore honed to clean it up and order a set with the .043x.043x3mm ring package.
70 Duster W8 motor.
1.29 60ft 5.79 1/8 at 120 mph
glide with 1.80 gear
@3170 lbs.
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Re: Engine build Dilema... Which way to go????
[Re: DemonDust]
#1753402
02/13/15 02:11 AM
02/13/15 02:11 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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Quote:
Pardon my ignorance, but wouldn't you have to bore the cylinders to get them straight? Or can a hone do that too?
Also if I go to whatever bore cleans up straight, is there a on the shelf ring size close to this bore that won't cost an arm and leg?
I'm not trying to be cheap, I have a lot of upgrades planned this winter and don't want to fall on unexpected costs.
You obviously don't bore to final size..........you hone it, so YES, a hone will fix your problem. Too many people think that when a motor gets worn, you must "bore" it to .010, .020, .030, whatever over. NOT true. You hone the motor to the minimum size that gets all the cylinders to SAME size and straight. THEN you order pistons to whatever that bore size is. So lets say your block is clean and straight at 4.186, that's the size you order pistons for and the piston maker will set the clearance in the piston. So what about rings for an odd bore? No problem there either. Rings are "file fit", so you simply order a set of 4.185 bore rings, just like you did before, only you file them less. Its really THAT simple. Again, many are under the assumption that rings are specific for EVERY bore size made. No sir......a ring set of a certain size can be used in MANY bore sizes
Monte
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Re: Engine build Dilema... Which way to go????
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1753403
02/13/15 02:20 AM
02/13/15 02:20 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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Quote:
Quote:
Well $1000 for rings is not anything new. In fact twice that is nothing new. These new tiny little rings get real expensive especially in big bores. I paid $1900 for the rings in the 99 Hemi I ran. Pistons were another $2600 but this is 4.700 bore stuff.
I'm glad for you Al... not me.. I wont spend that kind
of money for a set of rings... OR a set of pistons..
and I have bought plenty of custom pistons.... a race
set of rings is .043... I dont need the odd ball stuff
Its not so much the size of the ring, as the material. We run .043 top and second rings and a standard 3/16 oil ring. The top ring we use is a $100 a hole and the seconds are $50 a hole, so yep, that's $1200 for the two upper rings, then the oil rings are about $50 for all. Super hi tech N/A stuff can be twice that, regardless of land size.
And we re-ring it about every 50 runs
Monte
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Re: Engine build Dilema... Which way to go????
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#1753404
02/13/15 02:29 AM
02/13/15 02:29 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Well $1000 for rings is not anything new. In fact twice that is nothing new. These new tiny little rings get real expensive especially in big bores. I paid $1900 for the rings in the 99 Hemi I ran. Pistons were another $2600 but this is 4.700 bore stuff.
I'm glad for you Al... not me.. I wont spend that kind
of money for a set of rings... OR a set of pistons..
and I have bought plenty of custom pistons.... a race
set of rings is .043... I dont need the odd ball stuff
Its not so much the size of the ring, as the material. We run .043 top and second rings and a standard 3/16 oil ring. The top ring we use is a $100 a hole and the seconds are $50 a hole, so yep, that's $1200 for the two upper rings, then the oil rings are about $50 for all. Super hi tech N/A stuff can be twice that, regardless of land size.
And we re-ring it about every 50 runs
Monte
Monte.. like I said to Al.. I wont spend that kind
of money... no need to for the junk I run... and 95%
of the guys on here are the same
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Re: Engine build Dilema... Which way to go????
[Re: DemonDust]
#1753406
02/13/15 09:43 AM
02/13/15 09:43 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,313
Charlotte, NC
LSP
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,313
Charlotte, NC
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Quote:
I looked at JE and diamonds website. They both say they can turn out custom pistons in about 2 weeks. That's pretty impressive, I figured it would be months that's why I didn't entertain the idea of making new ones. Thanks for the info Monte! I'm sure prices will probably be comparable. JE built the pistons originally so it would be no problem for them. Is diamond a pretty good company? I haven't heard a lot about them.
PM Sent
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Re: Engine build Dilema... Which way to go????
[Re: DemonDust]
#1753408
02/13/15 02:17 PM
02/13/15 02:17 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
I looked at JE and diamonds website. They both say they can turn out custom pistons in about 2 weeks. That's pretty impressive, I figured it would be months that's why I didn't entertain the idea of making new ones. Thanks for the info Monte! I'm sure prices will probably be comparable. JE built the pistons originally so it would be no problem for them. Is diamond a pretty good company? I haven't heard a lot about them.
Yes Diamond is a good company... and they can get them
out in ABOUT 2 weeks... I had them build a set of
pistons with 2 changes to a shelf piston and I picked
them up 3 days later.. the place isnt small and they
have plenty of equipment and the people to run them..
plus they were a bit cheaper on prices
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Re: Engine build Dilema... Which way to go????
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#1753409
02/14/15 02:33 PM
02/14/15 02:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
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So Monte and Al maybe you could share with us how much power a $2000 set of rings can give over a $500 set in a typical bracket engine and in an ex-NASCAR engine and a heads up Hemi 99
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: Engine build Dilema... Which way to go????
[Re: HotRodDave]
#1753411
02/14/15 06:53 PM
02/14/15 06:53 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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Quote:
So Monte and Al maybe you could share with us how much power a $2000 set of rings can give over a $500 set in a typical bracket engine and in an ex-NASCAR engine and a heads up Hemi 99
For the rings we use, the answer is don't know and don't care. We are not concerned about if they make more power. We are concerned about maintaining ring seal in the extremely harsh environment WE use them in, which is a HEAVY nitrous load. You do NOT ring a nitrous motor for max power, you ring it to LIVE. In a motor such as ours, I may use as heavy as a 30lb oil package. Its all about ring seal and materials that can stand the abuse. So what makes our rings expensive is the materials used. We use the "M2" material on the top. While many use a "napier" cut second ring, most are cast. We use a special alloy on our second rings with a "napier" cut
But to answer your question, I will say the $2000 ring set will benefit the average bracket motor NONE. Because frankly, seldom is enough precision and attention to detail, in both parts and techniques, put in that type motor for the rings to be of any benefit. In a Pro-Stock, Comp, or class "record attempt" motor.....yes..........in the average bracket motor.....NO.
Monte
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Re: Engine build Dilema... Which way to go????
[Re: cesar perez]
#1753415
02/17/15 05:22 AM
02/17/15 05:22 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,207
Menomonee Falls
DemonDust
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,207
Menomonee Falls
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Quote:
its cheaper to buy a new wildcat and have monte put some nitrous
What's a wild cat? 
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Re: Engine build Dilema... Which way to go????
[Re: DemonDust]
#1753416
02/20/15 03:13 AM
02/20/15 03:13 AM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,560
Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick
Still wishing...
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Still wishing...
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,560
Downtown Roebuck Ont
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Quote:
Quote:
its cheaper to buy a new wildcat and have monte put some nitrous
What's a wild cat?
It's a Buick. They beat Hemis all the time.  
Kevin
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Re: Engine build Dilema... Which way to go????
[Re: DemonDust]
#1753417
02/20/15 04:11 AM
02/20/15 04:11 AM
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 345
Nebraska
451Cuda
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 345
Nebraska
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Quote:
Quote:
its cheaper to buy a new wildcat and have monte put some nitrous
What's a wild cat?
A hellcat that hasn't earned it's horns yet?
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