Re: Main studs or bolts
[Re: gss]
#1738057
01/27/15 12:28 PM
01/27/15 12:28 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506 Az
Crizila
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
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Bottom line - If you are going to change hardware / torque specs, you should measure. Not that big of a deal.
Fastest 300
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Re: Main studs or bolts
[Re: Crizila]
#1738059
01/27/15 12:59 PM
01/27/15 12:59 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,570 Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick
Still wishing...
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Still wishing...
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,570
Downtown Roebuck Ont
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I thought E'berg cleared this up eons ago. The stock bolt shank is smaller than the hole in the cap so it doesn't make contact with the bolt bore when it is torqued. An ARP stud is uniform diameter (larger) and on a lot of stock caps, will make contact. This is what causes the distortion on the main bores. In his article he opened up the bolt bores slightly so the studs had more clearance and the distortion vanished. My ? If you have the tools and the talent, install the caps with studs, torque them with the ARP lube and measure them. If the bores are still within the acceptable +/- .00000X, marvelous. If you find one that isn't that was OK with bolts, open up the bolt bores so the studs have clearance and it should then be marvelous too. Kevin
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Re: Main studs or bolts
[Re: Twostick]
#1738060
01/27/15 02:37 PM
01/27/15 02:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,121 State, country, etc.
gss
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,121
State, country, etc.
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Quote:
I thought E'berg cleared this up eons ago.
The stock bolt shank is smaller than the hole in the cap so it doesn't make contact with the bolt bore when it is torqued.
An ARP stud is uniform diameter (larger) and on a lot of stock caps, will make contact. This is what causes the distortion on the main bores. In his article he opened up the bolt bores slightly so the studs had more clearance and the distortion vanished.
My ? If you have the tools and the talent, install the caps with studs, torque them with the ARP lube and measure them. If the bores are still within the acceptable +/- .00000X, marvelous.
If you find one that isn't that was OK with bolts, open up the bolt bores so the studs have clearance and it should then be marvelous too.
Kevin
That is very interesting. Upon further inspection, there was NO align honing done at all with bolts or studs. I will be taking it to a different machine shop for align honing with the studs. Should I be concerned about the cylinders getting out of round?
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Re: Main studs or bolts
[Re: Twostick]
#1738062
01/27/15 09:33 PM
01/27/15 09:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591 Canton, Ohio
Sport440
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
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Quote:
I thought E'berg cleared this up eons ago.
The stock bolt shank is smaller than the hole in the cap so it doesn't make contact with the bolt bore when it is torqued.
An ARP stud is uniform diameter (larger) and on a lot of stock caps, will make contact. This is what causes the distortion on the main bores. In his article he opened up the bolt bores slightly so the studs had more clearance and the distortion vanished.
My ? If you have the tools and the talent, install the caps with studs, torque them with the ARP lube and measure them. If the bores are still within the acceptable +/- .00000X, marvelous.
If you find one that isn't that was OK with bolts, open up the bolt bores so the studs have clearance and it should then be marvelous too.
Kevin
Yep. I stated this Eons ago in this thread. my Caps had plenty of contact too with the new Wider shank studs. I redrilled my caps as well, but thsat wasn't enough. The higher torque value distorted them as well. Had to have the line hone, crank wouldn't spin without it.
So the Wider shanks of the studs and the higher torque value both play a roll with the altered tolerences.
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Re: Main studs or bolts
[Re: roadhazard]
#1738063
01/29/15 07:01 PM
01/29/15 07:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,095 A Banana Republic near you.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,095
A Banana Republic near you.
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Quote:
I will also add, check your cylinder bores.
Really no reason to run studs IMO
When torque specs are changed everything distorts differently ...
unless you are a flat rate mechanic ...
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Re: Main studs or bolts
[Re: dogdays]
#1738066
02/09/15 08:46 PM
02/09/15 08:46 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,272 Northern Calyfornua
Sxrxrnr
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,272
Northern Calyfornua
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Something to be aware that happened with my 512 stroker with ARP studs and Road Race Pan.
Cinching down nuts on the oil pan studs at rear main retainer I felt the torque wrench suddenly loosen as though I had stripped either the nut or the stud that was screwed into the Mancini aluminum retainer.
Pulling the pan off, I found this. The number 5 rear main stud had barely caught the oil pan and what I had felt was the pan that had been caught, suddenly slid a bit as torque was applied thereby given me that quick release that I had felt.
Yes this main stud appeared to be properly bottomed in it block hole (I pulled it out to ensure nothing else was in the hole,,,all was well).
A bit of surgery with a Dremel rounded of a bit of the nut side of the stud and all is well.
To this day not certain if was a stud problem or Road Race pan issue. Only one gasket on pan,,,no windage,,, perhaps this had something to do with it,,,places pan closer to block,,,but doubt it.
Last edited by Sxrxrnr; 02/09/15 09:27 PM.
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Re: Main studs or bolts
[Re: Sxrxrnr]
#1738067
02/09/15 11:00 PM
02/09/15 11:00 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,308 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,308
Bend,OR USA
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Quote:
Something to be aware that happened with my 512 stroker with ARP studs and Road Race Pan.
Cinching down nuts on the oil pan studs at rear main retainer I felt the torque wrench suddenly loosen as though I had stripped either the nut or the stud that was screwed into the Mancini aluminum retainer.
Pulling the pan off, I found this. The number 5 rear main stud had barely caught the oil pan and what I had felt was the pan that had been caught, suddenly slid a bit as torque was applied thereby given me that quick release that I had felt.
Yes this main stud appeared to be properly bottomed in it block hole (I pulled it out to ensure nothing else was in the hole,,,all was well).
A bit of surgery with a Dremel rounded of a bit of the nut side of the stud and all is well.
To this day not certain if was a stud problem or Road Race pan issue. Only one gasket on pan,,,no windage,,, perhaps this had something to do with it,,,places pan closer to block,,,but doubt it.
Some, not all , of ARP Mopar main stud kits come with two shorter studs in them, those two go in the back on # 5 main cap I make my own crankshaft scrapers that get glued to the block on the passenger and the half of one oil pan gasket gets glue onto the remaining oil pan surfaces and then go from there I use the scraper and stock windage trays with two more oil pan gaskets, lots of clearances between the block and oil pan with all that mess
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Main studs or bolts
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1738070
02/25/15 11:30 PM
02/25/15 11:30 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Main thing to remember with studs since the studs are bigger and can be right up against the cap--it can screw up the thrust situation--the fix is the same --enlarge the hole in the cap--allowing you to move the center main cap enough to line up the thrust like you need to
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Re: Main studs or bolts
[Re: gss]
#1738072
02/26/15 01:57 AM
02/26/15 01:57 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Final update. Got the block back from the machine shop. They checked everything and all is good. Even the mains didn't need align honing after installing the studs.
When you get to installing the crank and mains.. make sure you SET the end play.. with the mains just snug give the crank a whack back and forth with a dead blow type hammer to set the thrust bearing then torque it down
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