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SB towing engine thoughts... CARB HELP #1730768 01/15/15 06:16 PM 01/15/15 06:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,419 Kalispell Mt. H HotRodDave OP I Live Here
HotRodDave OP I Live Here H Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,419 Kalispell Mt.	Got a customer who had to sell his cummins and wants a motor in his 85 to perform similar and here is what I got coming to gether, what do you guys think? 340 block 4.070 4 inch stroke .512 lift [Email]230@.050[/Email] single pattern lunati hydro flat tappet R/T magnum heads, lightly ported Eddy RPM intake 650 Thunderseries Eddy 1 /5/8 summit brand headers Mahle pistons (really nice light weight, hard anodized teflon skirts!) Stock worked rods with ARP bolts 9.3 compression .040 quench but it is a smaller area than I like. Anything I am missing or doing wrong? Stock 12V cummins is what 190 HP 400 TQ? I am hoping to make 300HP and 500TQ at a low RPM range. Truck has 3.55s and 727 4x4. Last edited by HotRodDave; 02/14/15 02:37 PM. I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!

Re: SB towing engine thoughts... [Re: HotRodDave] #1730769 01/15/15 06:19 PM 01/15/15 06:19 PM
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 855 ontario canada kingston aspenrt360 super stock
aspenrt360 super stock Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 855 ontario canada kingston	sounds like a torque beast to me. 2013 Chrysler 300 touring 1974 Dodge Charger SE. 360-727-8.75-3.23 sure grip 1972 Dodge Dart Swinger 1995 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4

Re: SB towing engine thoughts... [Re: HotRodDave] #1730770 01/15/15 06:26 PM 01/15/15 06:26 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Quote: Got a customer who had to sell his cummins and wants a motor in his 85 to perform similar and here is what I got coming to gether, what do you guys think? 340 block 4.070 4 inch stroke .512 lift [Email]230@.050[/Email] single pattern lunati hydro flat tappet R/T magnum heads, lightly ported Eddy RPM intake 650 Thunderseries Eddy 1 /5/8 summit brand headers Mahle pistons (really nice light weight, hard anodized teflon skirts!) Stock worked rods with ARP bolts 9.3 compression .040 quench but it is a smaller area than I like. Anything I am missing or doing wrong? Stock 12V cummins is what 190 HP 400 TQ? I am hoping to make 300HP and 500TQ at a low RPM range. Truck has 3.55s and 727 4x4. You cant compare the torque of the Cummins with that of the gas burner... the one is doing it at about 1000 rpms vs we will say 3800... will the gas burner fit the bill... it might DEPENDING on the load and if the conv is right

Re: SB towing engine thoughts... [Re: HotRodDave] #1730771 01/15/15 06:30 PM 01/15/15 06:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 4,255 Canada WO23Coronet master
WO23Coronet master Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 4,255 Canada	That sounds more like 400+HP to me, wouldn't 230@.050 be a little big for a towing engine? Other than that it looks good to me

Re: SB towing engine thoughts... [Re: WO23Coronet] #1730772 01/15/15 06:34 PM 01/15/15 06:34 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Quote: That sounds more like 400+HP to me, wouldn't [Email]230@.050[/Email] be a little big for a towing engine? Other than that it looks good to me Not really.. the stroker will eat up some of that duration

Re: SB towing engine thoughts... [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1730773 01/15/15 06:41 PM 01/15/15 06:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,419 Kalispell Mt. H HotRodDave OP I Live Here
HotRodDave OP I Live Here H Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,419 Kalispell Mt.	Not too late to go one size smaller on the cam if it would be better I don;t think it would have too much cylinder pressure. I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!

Re: SB towing engine thoughts... [Re: HotRodDave] #1730774 01/15/15 06:49 PM 01/15/15 06:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,875 Weddington, N.C. Streetwize master
Streetwize master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,875 Weddington, N.C.	For towing I might think something around 224 @.050 with that head should work well. Keep it a fat mild ramp with a relatively mild spring and let the crank arm do the work. I still like a fairly tight centerline so the torque comes on hard for inclines, etc. Something like the old Isky or Lunati 4x4 grinds would work well. Lunati used to have a 228/235 Truck cam that was pretty stout for a 360 but would be about as aggressive as I would go for that combo, it's got to be able to pull a tight converter out of the basement. WIZE World's Quickest Diahatsu Rocky (??) 414" Stroker Small block Mopar Powered. 10.84 @ 123...and gettin' quicker! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mWzLma3YGI In Car: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjXcf95e6v0

Re: SB towing engine thoughts... [Re: HotRodDave] #1730775 01/15/15 07:10 PM 01/15/15 07:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,419 Kalispell Mt. H HotRodDave OP I Live Here
HotRodDave OP I Live Here H Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,419 Kalispell Mt.	I also have a 218@.050 .488 single pattern cam I could use. I can't find the Dunnuck 440 towing build, wanted to read that again, anyone save it? I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!

Re: SB towing engine thoughts... [Re: HotRodDave] #1730776 01/15/15 07:17 PM 01/15/15 07:17 PM
Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 6,003 Salem Grizzly Moparts Proctologist
Grizzly Moparts Proctologist Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 6,003 Salem	Quote: Anything I am missing or doing wrong? A T3 turbo. Mo' Farts Moderated by "tbagger".

Re: SB towing engine thoughts... [Re: HotRodDave] #1730777 01/15/15 07:18 PM 01/15/15 07:18 PM
Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 3,300 Northern Indiana Dunnuck Racing master
Dunnuck Racing master Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 3,300 Northern Indiana	Dave, that 440 used a Lunati Street master can, 225/225 @ ,050 477/477 lift on a 108 lsa Should work well with a 4" stroke small block too. Keith www.dunnuckracing.com

Re: SB towing engine thoughts... [Re: Dunnuck Racing] #1730778 01/15/15 07:25 PM 01/15/15 07:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,419 Kalispell Mt. H HotRodDave OP I Live Here
HotRodDave OP I Live Here H Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,419 Kalispell Mt.	Do you have the dyno sheet or a link to the other thread? I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!

Re: SB towing engine thoughts... [Re: Dunnuck Racing] #1730779 01/15/15 07:29 PM 01/15/15 07:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,376 D dogdays I Live Here
dogdays I Live Here D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,376	My : Magnum heads, use a single pattern cam. For low end torque, a tight LSA helps, especially if one chooses shorter durations. I think your cam choice is one or two steps too big. But looking at some dyno tests muddied the water. You may be at exactly the right place. Diesel torque curves have a different shape. Peak torque may be equal, but at lower rpm the Diesel should be way ahead. For example, this link gives you an idea. The 12-valve manual trans engine of the '90s had 320 lb-ft of torque at 500 rpm. http://dodgeram.org/tech/dsl/Facts/96specs.html R. Last edited by dogdays; 01/15/15 07:56 PM.

Re: SB towing engine thoughts... [Re: dogdays] #1730780 01/16/15 01:57 PM 01/16/15 01:57 PM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada DaytonaTurbo Too Many Posts
DaytonaTurbo Too Many Posts Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 21,318 Manitoba, Canada	Too much cam and that intake has too much runner volume for a dedicated tow rig IMO.

Re: SB towing engine thoughts... [Re: HotRodDave] #1730781 01/16/15 02:17 PM 01/16/15 02:17 PM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 28,312 Cincinnati, Ohio Challenger 1 Too Many Posts
Challenger 1 Too Many Posts Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 28,312 Cincinnati, Ohio	Quote: Got a customer who had to sell his cummins and wants a motor in his 85 to perform similar and here is what I got coming to gether, what do you guys think? 340 block 4.070 4 inch stroke .512 lift [Email]230@.050[/Email] single pattern lunati hydro flat tappet R/T magnum heads, lightly ported Eddy RPM intake 650 Thunderseries Eddy 1 /5/8 summit brand headers Mahle pistons (really nice light weight, hard anodized teflon skirts!) Stock worked rods with ARP bolts 9.3 compression .040 quench but it is a smaller area than I like. Anything I am missing or doing wrong? Stock 12V cummins is what 190 HP 400 TQ? I am hoping to make 300HP and 500TQ at a low RPM range. Truck has 3.55s and 727 4x4. I don't think a sb anything is going to proform similar to a diesel. No way no how and I wouldn't consider any sb for towing. My I burned up a 360 motor(burnt 3 valves) towing a 26' enclosed trailer through the wimpy smokey mountains back in 1990. That was the last time I towed with a sb.

Re: SB towing engine thoughts... [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #1730782 01/16/15 02:35 PM 01/16/15 02:35 PM
Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 925 north carolina D d100dragracer super stock
d100dragracer super stock D Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 925 north carolina	I think the cam is pretty close myself with a 4 inch crank I would not use that 218 duration if it and the 230 were my two choices much smaller it will be out of breath before it reaches much rpm I realize its being built to tow with but it wont be towing all the time more than likely plus it will still have plenty of torque to get going not like a Cummins does but when its rolling good I would think it would give a older Cummins all it wanted as far as passing someone rolling at say 55-60 mph. I have owned a older Cummins good tow rig plenty on the bottom but not a speed demon when it was rolling good that 4 inch crank makes a huge difference in a small block. You should have over 400HP I would think and close to 500 ft lbs on the torque maybe a little short of that but I would say close. A 4 inch stroke small block tows just fine in my opinion hell it has more stroke than a stock big block 440 has and they use to be the rave supposedly for towing before all the diesels came along I think we have got a little spoiled with the power the diesels are making now but it sure doesn't mean that a 4 inch small block cant still get the job done I assure you it will if it has a good cooling system.

Re: SB towing engine thoughts... [Re: d100dragracer] #1730783 01/16/15 05:41 PM 01/16/15 05:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,419 Kalispell Mt. H HotRodDave OP I Live Here
HotRodDave OP I Live Here H Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,419 Kalispell Mt.	He pretty much ALWAYS has a 16 ft trailer with a small bob cat hooked up to it. A 12 valve cummins is $3500 just for the motor not to mention the cost of the conversion (trans, exhaust, fuel system...)or the fuel that is almost %50 more $ now so we are just trying to do the best we can with what we have. If the intake is a real question I do have a regular performer butt I was figuring with converter slipage that any more TQ below 2000 will never be used. He has mentioned that down the road he may get some 1.7 roller rockers to replace the stock 1.6 magnums we are going to use so he may get a little more lift out of it yet. The motor he was running the last two years in it was a JY 5.9 with a ring job, a couple cylinders had a little excesive taper, slightly ported factory magnum heads, air gap, same carb, exhaust, under 9.0 compression, no quench, the cam in it was a 222@.050 .540 lift roller but every couple months it would poke a hole through a stock rocker. Him and his buddy built it and it is ready to get rebuilt again. It was barely adequate. I would have tried pushing a 440 on him but then he still has to change a bunch of crap and push the cost up too high and a 340 stroker will hold more re-sale value if he can ever get back to a cummins truck. I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!

Re: SB towing engine thoughts... [Re: HotRodDave] #1730784 01/17/15 03:36 PM 01/17/15 03:36 PM
Joined: Apr 2003 Posts: 3,510 Tulsa, Oklahoma 340Cuda master
340Cuda master Joined: Apr 2003 Posts: 3,510 Tulsa, Oklahoma	I towed with a 1980 Dodge 1 ton that I had purchased new for many years. It had a tow package with a HD 360 which included exhaust valve rotaters etc. It was still very hard on exhaust valves so I would keep that in mind when doing the heads and not skimp in that area. Bill

Re: SB towing engine thoughts... [Re: Grizzly] #1730785 01/30/15 03:21 PM 01/30/15 03:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,419 Kalispell Mt. H HotRodDave OP I Live Here
HotRodDave OP I Live Here H Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,419 Kalispell Mt.	Quote: Quote: Anything I am missing or doing wrong? A T3 turbo. But that would not be the way the factory did it I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!

Re: SB towing engine thoughts... [Re: HotRodDave] #1730786 01/30/15 08:40 PM 01/30/15 08:40 PM
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,506 Az Crizila master
Crizila master Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,506 Az	Maybe a smidgeon less duration. Otherwise, I like it. If he is towing under 10K gcw, should be just fine. Fastest 300

Re: SB towing engine thoughts... [Re: HotRodDave] #1730787 01/30/15 08:46 PM 01/30/15 08:46 PM
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 9,835 MI, usa dvw master
dvw master Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 9,835 MI, usa	My old 360 1/2 ton had a stock intake, t-quad, and a Summit 214@.050 cam,3.23 it was pretty decent. The next 1/2 ton I replaced the 318 with a stock 5.9 Magnum with a Mopar Performance dual plane in place of the EFI,600 Holley, headers, and a 3.91 gear. It was very good except stopping. Doug

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