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Re: Valve weight tech, stainless to titanium difference [Re: Street Monkies] #1728215 01/13/15 11:35 PM 01/13/15 11:35 PM
Joined: Dec 2012 Posts: 41 PA R R5P7 Bantam member
R5P7 Bantam member R Joined: Dec 2012 Posts: 41 PA	Quote: The best way to figure out what you need is to put a engine on a spintron. Very expensive and some engine builders have access to them. With this you can find out what valve springs pressures you can run, lifter bounce, how stable the valve train is at high rpm, ect. Spintron is the way to go.....but first you need to optimize the valve train geometry or you will play 52 pickup with little metal parts. The ideal methodology behind the spintron is to exceed the desired rpm and test for longevity (granted the valve train geometry is fixed / optimized). Then when the desired rpm is utilized, you can feel confident in 2x,3x, etc the extended life of valve train parts. It's kinda simple to make your own spintron. electric motor and rheostat directly coupled to the camshaft. Hook up the valve train and get an adjustable strobe light (timing light). Once optimized, its just an endurance test.

Re: Valve weight tech, stainless to titanium difference [Re: R5P7 Bantam] #1728216 01/13/15 11:55 PM 01/13/15 11:55 PM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 20,195 PA. pittsburghracer OP "Little"John
pittsburghracer OP "Little"John Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 20,195 PA.	Its WAY over my head as I'm a simple country boy but do you see sizable advantages using titanium valves in a combo like mine? 572 Keith Black 4.500 bore 4.500 stroke B1 head 800 plus lift roller 7000-7500 shift RPM (est) Nitrous 1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27 Livin and lovin life one day at a time

Re: Valve weight tech, stainless to titanium difference [Re: pittsburghracer] #1728217 01/14/15 12:09 AM 01/14/15 12:09 AM
Joined: Dec 2012 Posts: 41 PA R R5P7 Bantam member
R5P7 Bantam member R Joined: Dec 2012 Posts: 41 PA	Quote: Its WAY over my head as I'm a simple country boy but do you see sizable advantages using titanium valves in a combo like mine? 572 Keith Black 4.500 bore 4.500 stroke B1 head 800 plus lift roller 7000-7500 shift RPM (est) Nitrous Sizeable?....define as $ invested per run or $ invested per .01 et gain? Not sure what it means to you. Here's my assessment: If you're going Ti, go to a 8mm or 7mm stem. Knock out the guides and install new tapered ended bronze guides. They're all over ebay cheap....real cheap, just get the right ones. Then look for proper length valves and do a valve job (most have a different seat angle than you're use to seeing). Lighter components yield longer life on the reciprocating parts. If you're looking for lots of runs, then good move. If you think you'll be grenading it sooner, then don't invest the time or money. Since you're juicing it, stick with what you have. If you optimize the combo and chassis and you need more, then make the investment. Good luck either way. Hope this helps?

Re: Valve weight tech, stainless to titanium difference [Re: R5P7 Bantam] #1728218 01/14/15 12:42 AM 01/14/15 12:42 AM
Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,646 Plymouth Meeting, PA bigtimeauto Trophy Winner
bigtimeauto Trophy Winner Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,646 Plymouth Meeting, PA	If you guys want valvetrain stability stop playing with standard size cam cores BB, TT5,Procharged 3300lb Street Car 4.79/154

Re: Valve weight tech, stainless to titanium difference [Re: R5P7 Bantam] #1728219 01/14/15 01:07 AM 01/14/15 01:07 AM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 20,195 PA. pittsburghracer OP "Little"John
pittsburghracer OP "Little"John Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 20,195 PA.	Quote: Quote: Its WAY over my head as I'm a simple country boy but do you see sizable advantages using titanium valves in a combo like mine? 572 Keith Black 4.500 bore 4.500 stroke B1 head 800 plus lift roller 7000-7500 shift RPM (est) Nitrous Sizeable?....define as $ invested per run or $ invested per .01 et gain? Not sure what it means to you. Here's my assessment: If you're going Ti, go to a 8mm or 7mm stem. Knock out the guides and install new tapered ended bronze guides. They're all over ebay cheap....real cheap, just get the right ones. Then look for proper length valves and do a valve job (most have a different seat angle than you're use to seeing). Lighter components yield longer life on the reciprocating parts. If you're looking for lots of runs, then good move. If you think you'll be grenading it sooner, then don't invest the time or money. Since you're juicing it, stick with what you have. If you optimize the combo and chassis and you need more, then make the investment. Good luck either way. Hope this helps? I already have the titanium valves that are 11/32 and re-buying another set and reworking the heads is way out of my budget. This is for a heads-up type build but it has to be within reason. I'm now retired and also have a 9 second bracket car that I race weekly. I want to have FUN but it can't be a "ball out' type of operation. 1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27 Livin and lovin life one day at a time

Re: Valve weight tech, stainless to titanium difference [Re: bigtimeauto] #1728220 01/14/15 12:55 PM 01/14/15 12:55 PM
Joined: Aug 2009 Posts: 1,318 Ohio J jlatessa pro stock
jlatessa pro stock J Joined: Aug 2009 Posts: 1,318 Ohio	Bigtime, give us some info on cam core size and how it affects valve train performance...thanks, Joe

Re: Valve weight tech, stainless to titanium difference [Re: jlatessa] #1728221 01/14/15 09:06 PM 01/14/15 09:06 PM
Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,890 North Alabama M Monte_Smith master
Monte_Smith master M Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,890 North Alabama	I didn't read all this, but NEGATIVE on lower spring pressure for Ti valves. That is not the purpose at all. Yes, the lighter valve is easier to move, but the main advantage is to KEEP IT SHUT. Heavy valves bounce on the seat, Ti valves not so much. Mostly a weight and momentum thing. SS/AH motors likely have 450lb on the seat, WITH Ti valves Big cam cores DON'T flex with big spring pressures.......it's that simple Monte

Re: Valve weight tech, stainless to titanium difference [Re: Monte_Smith] #1728222 01/14/15 09:11 PM 01/14/15 09:11 PM
Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,646 Plymouth Meeting, PA bigtimeauto Trophy Winner
bigtimeauto Trophy Winner Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,646 Plymouth Meeting, PA	Quote: SS/AH motors likely have 450lb on the seat, WITH Ti valves Big cam cores DON'T flex with big spring pressures.......it's that simple Monte If you are running a ss/ah with ti valve's your cheating. They are not allowed. BB, TT5,Procharged 3300lb Street Car 4.79/154

Re: Valve weight tech, stainless to titanium difference [Re: bigtimeauto] #1728223 01/14/15 09:16 PM 01/14/15 09:16 PM
Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,890 North Alabama M Monte_Smith master
Monte_Smith master M Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,890 North Alabama	And something like that NEVERS happens........LOL!! OK, so change the statement to PS HEMI.......makes no damn difference. The point is, Ti valves do NOT mean you run LESS spring pressure Monte

Re: Valve weight tech, stainless to titanium difference [Re: jlatessa] #1728224 01/14/15 09:17 PM 01/14/15 09:17 PM
Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,646 Plymouth Meeting, PA bigtimeauto Trophy Winner
bigtimeauto Trophy Winner Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,646 Plymouth Meeting, PA	Quote: Bigtime, give us some info on cam core size and how it affects valve train performance...thanks, Joe the short version is 2 fold. The obvious one is there is no twisting from the valve springs. Second is you get to run a bigger lobe so you can control the opening and closing of the valve better with less rocker arm ratio. BB, TT5,Procharged 3300lb Street Car 4.79/154

Re: Valve weight tech, stainless to titanium difference [Re: Monte_Smith] #1728225 01/14/15 09:18 PM 01/14/15 09:18 PM
Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,646 Plymouth Meeting, PA bigtimeauto Trophy Winner
bigtimeauto Trophy Winner Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,646 Plymouth Meeting, PA	Quote: And something like that NEVERS happens........LOL!! OK, so change the statement to PS HEMI.......makes no damn difference. The point is, Ti valves do NOT mean you run LESS spring pressure Monte lol i know i run them in street cars. now a big cam core you can run less pressure..... BB, TT5,Procharged 3300lb Street Car 4.79/154

Re: Valve weight tech, stainless to titanium difference [Re: bigtimeauto] #1728226 01/14/15 09:34 PM 01/14/15 09:34 PM
Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,890 North Alabama M Monte_Smith master
Monte_Smith master M Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,890 North Alabama	Also, one of the largest determining factors of spring pressure is cam PROFILE. Lift and how much of it you have, is of little concern if the cam has a super aggressive lobe. You can make a 1" lift cam relatively smooth and easy on valve train parts and you can make a 600 lift cam toss out parts faster than you can replace them. All about how violently and aggressively you snap the valve open and let it slam shut. Lift is NOT what kills springs. Because think about it guys.....a PROPERLY set up valve spring should be compressed within .040-.050 of coil bind, regardless of lift. So just because you have a smaller cam, does NOT automatically make it easier on springs. We have some Drag Week cars with 1" and MORE lift cams.......they make it just fine Monte

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