BB oiling mod confusion
#1721432
01/04/15 03:27 PM
01/04/15 03:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 35
Canada
Criterion
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Canada
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I am starting on the block for a 500 stroker that I am building and have some confusion over what the most accepted mod for the main oil feed passages is. -In AndyF's book it says to open them all up to 9/32 inch from the gallery down to the mains -Hughes advocate that #4 be the only one to go to 9/32 inch, and all the rest to 1/4 inch -And then I've seen members here say that you should only do passages #2-through-#4 to 1/4 inch, because #1 and #5 passages are responsible for oiling less. Can you shed some light on this for me? It's my first big block build (solid roller street engine) and I would like to get it right the first time. 
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Re: BB oiling mod confusion
[Re: Criterion]
#1721433
01/04/15 04:59 PM
01/04/15 04:59 PM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Remember that they are talking about the hole from the mains up to the lifter oil galley--NOTthe hole to cam bearings--the slanted hole is one you want
Do the number 4 and forget it or 2, 3, 4
a bit with correct flutes lessens chance of breaking bit I can't remember maybe 120 degree??? can't remember or...forget it and move on--should be fine--In a very hot drag or high HP big block #4 main takes a beating as oil for top end leaves from there --most street engines so what--most drag engines #4 will make it until seasons end or better and will just look a little scruffy at teardown--break a bit off in there and you will be one sick puppy so.....
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Re: BB oiling mod confusion
[Re: Criterion]
#1721435
01/04/15 07:55 PM
01/04/15 07:55 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,318
Prospect, PA
BSB67
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,318
Prospect, PA
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I don't think that it being stroked really changes much. It is everything else that you are doing that might cause one to reconsider the standard oiling system. I'd be surprised if you get less than 10 different opinions here. Here are two opinions: 1) if you cannot feed enough oil to all of the bearings with the existing oil passage, you have other problems, with #4 Main being the possible exception, and 2) I would not take anyone's opinion serious if you don't explain in great detail the balance of the oiling system, specifically the lifters, pushrods, rockers, style of rockers, and if the #4 cam journal is cut for continuous oiling....
Just my opinion.
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Re: BB oiling mod confusion
[Re: Criterion]
#1721436
01/04/15 09:02 PM
01/04/15 09:02 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,230
Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,230
Bend,OR USA
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I've never enlarged a oil passage on any BB or 426 Hemi blocks, I have blocked the left side lifter valley oil passage closed on a solid lifter and solid roller lifter motors  I do always use full groove main bearings (the narrow ones work really geat ) an any of those mptors that will be intentionlly revved past 5000 RPM  I've built and raced a bunch 300+, in the last twelve years of those type motor from stock stroke mild( 500 HP pump gas, to wild, 1000+ boosted on race gas) to higher HP stroker motors on both pump gas nad race gas  . These motors, B and non M.W. RB came with single groove main bearings and once Mopar put a stout enough cam and valve train in those motors so they would make power above 5000 RPM than started having oil starvation problems on the #3,4,5 and six rod bearings which would sieze from lack of oil and spin and kill the motors My message is to buy a set of Speed Pro, Federal Mogum or Seal Powered(what ever brand that there being sold as now  ) full narrow groove main bearings PT # M4095 for the RB and M4094 for the B motors and run at least .0028 or looser clearances on the rods and .0030 + on the main bearings to crank clearances One thing you need to check on solid roller lifters is the lifter body raising up high enough at max lift to expose the oil galleys That was the first reason I had to block the oil galley off on a 1966 Street Hemi motor that I put a roller cam in, the rght oil gally passge was okay, the left side lifter oil passage was high enough to allow the oil pressure to pulsate when running  Plugging it fixed it
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: BB oiling mod confusion
[Re: BSB67]
#1721437
01/04/15 09:08 PM
01/04/15 09:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 35
Canada
Criterion
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I'm using an MHV-63 pump that has been cleaned up, a 1/2" pickup tube and a 7-quart pan. The lifters I am using are solid rollers from MRL and feature pressure-fed oiling to the axle, as well as being able to lubricate through the pushrod, which I had planned to source from Trend with .030" restrictors, though I am not even sure if pushrod lubrication is really necessary. I am using a set of Hughes roller rockers, and have not modified the camshaft bearings for full-time oiling.
I honestly would never have even thought about modifying the oil passages if it weren't for the recommendation by Hughes and AndyF's book.
Last edited by Criterion; 01/04/15 09:12 PM.
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Re: BB oiling mod confusion
[Re: BSB67]
#1721438
01/04/15 09:15 PM
01/04/15 09:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540
Milwaukee WI
TRENDZ
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master
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Milwaukee WI
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This is not conventional(but that's the way I do things). I leave all the main drillings stock size. I rotate the #4 cam bearing to seal off the head feeds(making sure there is a hole for feeding that cam journal) To get oil to the heads, I drill straight thru the oil feed humps in the valley(right and left side) into the main galley. I drilled them to 1/8", then I drill and tap the valley hole to 1/16"npt. This keeps #4 main and 6&7 rod in good condition, while supplying a good amount of constant oil to the heads. I've used a few combinations of rockers(needle bearing, bushed and non-bushed) This always worked well. Works fine with both solid and roller cams, street and race apps. A lot of successful beatings!
"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
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Re: BB oiling mod confusion
[Re: Criterion]
#1721439
01/04/15 09:23 PM
01/04/15 09:23 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,230
Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,230
Bend,OR USA
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Quote:
I'm using an MHV-63 pump that has been cleaned up, a 1/2" pickup tube and a 7-quart pan. The lifters I am using are solid rollers from MRL and feature pressure-fed oiling to the axle, as well as being able to lubricate through the pushrod, which I had planned to source from Trend with .030" restrictors, though I am not even sure if pushrod lubrication is really necessary. I am using a set of Hughes roller rockers, and have not modified the camshaft bearings for full-time oiling.
I honestly would never have even thought about modifying the oil passages if it weren't for the recommendation by Hughes and AndyF's book.
I forgot to mention that I have the #4 cam journal grooved, if it isn't already, on all my solid roller cams to oil the rockers and valve springs full time. The one exception is on motors with Indy heads or those using paired shaft rockers that don't oil through the rocker shafts I have a set of Indy 440-1 heads that came with Jesel paired shaft rockers and I haven't decided which way to oil those rockers yet  , I'll probally error on the cautous side and use both pushrod and spray bar oiling on it to be safe 
Look real closely at your lifter bodys to see where the pressure oil is being fed from, if they are straight bodies with no ring in the center you still need to check them at max lift for exposing the oil galleys by the roller wheel cutouts If they have the oiling band cut into the main bodys they need to be check also to make sure they don't expose the oil band in them at the top to the lifter galley letting pressured oil spray up and out of those bands at max lift
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: BB oiling mod confusion
[Re: TRENDZ]
#1721440
01/04/15 09:34 PM
01/04/15 09:34 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
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I agree that is is not needed--the main thing is the number 4 if you are planning on anything--most times the 9/32 in just "cleans " up the existing passage--more to ensure it is clear than anything
I have seen many a block ruined by folks doing Un- needed mods for oiling--you have to remember when Herb was doing it they were leaving off the wood and shifting a 4 speed at max daddy RPM with very heavy parts
90% of folks should run a brush through it and forget it IMO
The only real issue that many folks ever see is a #4 main that never looks quite as good as the rest in an engine that has had the heck run out of it --you see one hurt every once in a blue moon but that does not mean that drilling that hole stops it from ever happening--you have to remember SOME folks can break an anvil--most guys race a lifetime and never hurt an engine at all so...
Its not the oil getting there --it is the bleeding it off to the top that is the threat--stock stamped rockers and Harland Sharps with the needle bearings bleed like stuck pigs--others it is usually Never an issue
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Re: BB oiling mod confusion
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1721441
01/04/15 09:58 PM
01/04/15 09:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 35
Canada
Criterion
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So just to recap  Using a good main bearing such as the M4094 with adequate clearance should be my first priority. Likewise with the rod bearings -- is there any "preferred" bearing for a 2.2" journal? Then clean and inspect the main feed passages really well and make sure there are no restrictions; no need to go ahead and open them up. Triple check that the solid roller lifters in no-way expose their oil port/band at maximum lift. I have a set of Durabond PDP-17T cam bearings here, and I've already got the Hughes shafts and rockers, so supposing that I use these parts in conjunction with pushrods that oil and have .030" restrictors, would that be a good setup for the street? Or is it recommended to go further and do a grooved #4 cam bearing and the full-time valvetrain lubrication? I really appreciate the input, and I agree that keeping it simple is best.
Last edited by Criterion; 01/04/15 09:59 PM.
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Re: BB oiling mod confusion
[Re: TRENDZ]
#1721443
01/04/15 11:30 PM
01/04/15 11:30 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,882
Ontario, Canada
Stanton
Don't question me!
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Don't question me!
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,882
Ontario, Canada
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I like oiling through the pushrods to save the cups and balls.
The issue with the #4 feed is that it is used to feed the main bearing, rod bearings, cam AND the valvetrain, whereas the others only feed the mains, rods and cam.
If you groove the #4 cam bearing or cam and do nothing else then it ends up starving for oil more than ever. If you want full time oiling to the top end then do it by tapping into the galleys as shown in the photo above and block it from the cam. Now there will be enough oil at the #4 to lube the main, rods and cam.
As previously stated, you'll get a lot of opinions. Good luck making a decision !!!
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Re: BB oiling mod confusion
[Re: TRENDZ]
#1721444
01/05/15 03:26 PM
01/05/15 03:26 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
moper
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
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Quote:
This is not conventional(but that's the way I do things).
I leave all the main drillings stock size. I rotate the #4 cam bearing to seal off the head feeds(making sure there is a hole for feeding that cam journal)
To get oil to the heads, I drill straight thru the oil feed humps in the valley(right and left side) into the main galley. I drilled them to 1/8", then I drill and tap the valley hole to 1/16"npt.
This keeps #4 main and 6&7 rod in good condition, while supplying a good amount of constant oil to the heads. I've used a few combinations of rockers(needle bearing, bushed and non-bushed) This always worked well. Works fine with both solid and roller cams, street and race apps. A lot of successful beatings!
That there's pretty cool... 
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
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