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440 warranty block question
#171855
12/20/08 07:41 PM
12/20/08 07:41 PM
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 265
Rapid City, South Dakota
six-pack-mopar
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 265
Rapid City, South Dakota
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I have a friend that has a warranty block dated 2-1969 with NO VIN number on the lower pad where they stamp the serial number. On the upper pad it gives the assembly date as 3-69 and WT for the water test. It does not have the HP stamp in this same area. My question is: would this still be a correct factory warranty replacement block for A12 cars or should it also have the HP stamp to be absolutely correct? Thoughts and what might it be worth? Thanks, Buddy ebelzer@aol.com
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Re: 440 warranty block question
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#171859
12/21/08 03:25 AM
12/21/08 03:25 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,507
N.E. OHIO, USA
A12
Too Many Posts
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,507
N.E. OHIO, USA
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Quote:
Does the block have a tag rivoted to the side near one of the frost plug holes? Is there an "S" stamped into the upper pad anywhere?
Did warranty work that way back then? I mean I thought parts for a possible warranty job were ordered, the work done, the warranty request documentation submitted, the work either approved or denied and nothing on any of the parts (i.e., block) ever really reads WARRANTY? The blue tag just reads "FACTORY BUILT SHORT ENGINE" and I don't think a bare block even gets a tag?
WARRANTY ENGINE or WARRANTY BLOCK is a misnomer; unless a warranty policy covers and pays for something it is not a warrnaty part. If you miss a shift, forget to put the oil drain plug back in tight or you forgot to put anti-freeze in and freeze crack a block or you just want to buy a Factory Built short or long block and you pay for it then it's not a warranty. I know, I know it's like calling a tissue Kleenex or a photo copy a Xerox (dating myself) everyone calls an un-stamped block a "Warranty Block" but if it was a warranty block it should have been built and put in the car that needed it replaced under warranty back then. They are just NOS parts at this point at best.
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Re: 440 warranty block question
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#171861
12/21/08 04:38 AM
12/21/08 04:38 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,507
N.E. OHIO, USA
A12
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,507
N.E. OHIO, USA
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Quote:
A block stamped with an assembly date would not have been sold as a bare block.
True, but shouldn't it read E440 3 28 or something like that and not a month and year? What would 3 69 mean that's a 31 day spread? 
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Re: 440 warranty block question
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#171864
12/21/08 05:22 AM
12/21/08 05:22 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,507
N.E. OHIO, USA
A12
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,507
N.E. OHIO, USA
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Quote:
The letter was the model year series indicator, it would not have been stamped into a warranty or service assembly because the model year car it would eventually be used in would not be known in advance.
3 = month
6 = day
9 = could have been the sequence built that shift (9th engine, etc.)
*A picture of the pad would be easier to decode.
Scott that makes sense but I can't recall ever seeing a '69 block done like that? Here's one I saw on ebay a while back. The casting date was 11 15 68 but I can't see how 1 2 8 could work out to Jan 2 68? I see the "S" 440 the W ater T est, the "A". I totally agree with your "*A picture of the pad would be easier to decode." 
MikeR
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Re: 440 warranty block question
[Re: A12]
#171866
12/21/08 12:27 PM
12/21/08 12:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
ScottSmith_Harms
Mr Wizzard
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Mr Wizzard
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
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Quote:
Scott that makes sense but I can't recall ever seeing a '69 block done like that? Here's one I saw on ebay a while back. The casting date was 11 15 68 but I can't see how 1 2 8 could work out to Jan 2 68? I see the "S" 440 the W ater T est, the "A". I totally agree with your "*A picture of the pad would be easier to decode."
MikeR
I would decode the block pad you posted as follows:
S= Service replacement
440= Cubic inches
1= January
28= 28th
2= Assembled 2nd shift
WT= Water Tested block (not typical on a production line installed 440, but typical of service replacements)
A= Possibly .020 oversize cyl. bores but not limited to that, could have also been some type of assembly inspection stamp.
What would remain a mystery would be the year it was actually assembled, the information on the (not shown) rivoted on tag could answer that question.
Block casting 11/15/68 = Hey, day before my 4th birthday! 
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Re: 440 warranty block question
[Re: 69superbee383]
#171869
12/21/08 06:03 PM
12/21/08 06:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
ScottSmith_Harms
Mr Wizzard
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Mr Wizzard
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714
Spokane Washington
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Quote:
My 69 bee has a block casting date of 11/17/68 and the stamping E 383 and then 12 2. I always assumed the 12 2 was December 2nd since the car build date was C 10 or 12/10/68. Wouldnt the 12 8 actually be 12/8/68 ?
I have never seen any documentation that would support the "8" as representing the year of the build, it's either the day of the month (or one digit of it), or the sequence in which it was built that shift.
So IMO the possibilities for the 12 8 would have been either December 8th (quite possibly as you suggested), January 28th, or January 2nd, 8th engine assembled. There's wiggle room on this due to stamping variables.
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Re: 440 warranty block question
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#171870
12/22/08 04:39 PM
12/22/08 04:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,791
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
Too Many Posts
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Rio Linda, CA
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The close proximity of the 1 and the 2 make me think it is 12 8 (December 8) build date which coincides with the casting date.
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: 440 warranty block question
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#171872
12/22/08 08:01 PM
12/22/08 08:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,507
N.E. OHIO, USA
A12
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
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N.E. OHIO, USA
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How did "S" (Service Replacement) engine programs work. Were these engines built up at the engine assembly plant and stock piled? Did they rebuild an owner's engine then stamp it? Were they built to order? Are the Engine Assembly Date (EAD) pads remachined and then stamped with that info? It seems to me that most of the "S" engines have the "W" "T" and the EAD pad surface looks different than an original engine's EAD pad or is that just me? On the 3 28 EAD engine I have (photo above) the pad looks just like a lot of original pads that I have photos of with distinct machine lines running at the same angle across the pad. The engine almost seems as if it was built to go into an assembly line car but that didn't happen. It just seems as if the "S" engines were assembly line quality problems that were pulled and then rebuilt, re-tested, then stamped and stored or shipped to parts for.......well for Service Replacements  Who knows how they were built or rebuilt? To order or........ MikeR
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Re: 440 warranty block question
[Re: 8_Barrel]
#171873
12/22/08 08:31 PM
12/22/08 08:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,507
N.E. OHIO, USA
A12
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,507
N.E. OHIO, USA
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Quote:
Quote:
Here's an over the counter factory HP long block:
Way COOOOOOOOOL!!! Or is it from a factory car that didn't get a vin stamp???
Just curious as to whether that particular modur was one that you had or ..... ....... Any chance that you were able to disassemble that modur??? The reason I ask is because I/we likewise had one and upon disassembly a few nice peculiarities were noted.
 
Arlo, I haven't taken it apart other than the valve covers and oil pan and took some photos (who me took photos....  ) It does have a windage tray, 402 oil pan and 906 heads and some markings on the pan gasket surface and a part number on the fuel pump.......your engine didn't happen to have a "strange" I.D. tag held on with small nail-rivets on the bellhousing area by chance?
MikeR
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Re: 440 warranty block question
[Re: A12]
#171874
12/22/08 08:43 PM
12/22/08 08:43 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,850
Central Coast, Calif.
Snoopy
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,850
Central Coast, Calif.
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Some additional info from the 70-71 Factory Parts Book. Quote:
EIGHT CYLINDER ENGINES
NOTE: The following symbols are used in connection with engine numbers:
ENGINE numbers without symbols indicate "Standard Cylinders and Crankshaft Bearings". The Letter "A" immediately following the engine number indicates Bore ,020" (.508 MM.) Larger than Standard.
The Letter "B" immediately following the engine identification number indicates Main and Connecting Rod Bearings ,010'' (.245 MM.) Smaller than Standard.
The Letters "AB" immediately following the engine identification number indicates Cylinder Bore ,020" (.508 MM.) Larger than Standard. Main and Connecting Rod Bearings .010" (.245 MM.) Smaller than Standard.
The Letters in the circular pads at either end of the engine number are for the use of factory inspectors only and should not be connected with the engine number. Always mention Serial Numbers when ordering major assemblies.
NOTE 1: Short Engine Assemblies Consist of the Cylinder Block with Pistons and Rings, Crankshaft and Bearings, Connecting Rods and Bearings.
NOTE 2: A 383 Cubic inch engine with a two barrel carburetor may be built with a cast or forged crankshaft. The cast crankshaft type is identified by a stamped letter "E" located on a pad on the upper right side of the front of the cylinder block. The vibration damper has on elliptical weight in front of the main member also a cut slot in the weight.
Identification must be confirmed before ordering a replacement SHORT ENGINE, CRANKSHAFT, DAMPER or TORQUE CONVERTER.
IMPORTANT
Parts Division replacement engines are supplied with blank engine number bosses only. Dealers are governed by state law on the application of engine numbers. In states where license fees are based on displacement or taxable horsepower, it will be necessary to change vehicle registration if the new replacement engine differs from the one it replaces.
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without paper work and documentation it's just another 440 block.
