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Re: Air filters on race cars??
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1715126
12/26/14 11:04 PM
12/26/14 11:04 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,131
Thigh-Gap Junction
@#$%&*!
New user name, Same old jerk!
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New user name, Same old jerk!
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,131
Thigh-Gap Junction
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Quote:
Did you jet up or down after taking the air cleaner
off... without finding the A/F point that your engine
likes for max power you didnt do anything but change
the A/F ratio.. nothing is ever as easy as.. just
do this or that and this occurs
I have a friend who runs the 14x3 with pleated filter top. Based on results I've seen posted here in the past I got him to make a pass without it. The car lost more than a tenth but the AFR leaned out 2 points and was dead flat instead of the wacky variations it normally has. He insisted in putting it back on instead of jetting up a little so the test was incomplete. I have no doubt that the air cleaner is restrictive on this '70 Swinger with 410ci smallblock and a 350+lb driver that was sooo close to that 10.0et he desperately wanted. It most likely would have cracked a 9 if I was driving it just due to the weight reduction. Logging AFR will show a restrictive air filter as richening at higher engine speeds.
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Re: Air filters on race cars??
[Re: GTX MATT]
#1715127
12/26/14 11:39 PM
12/26/14 11:39 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,645
Phila. Pa.
Mattax
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,645
Phila. Pa.
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Quote:
How about running a bigger filter with a drop base? Is that really helping or is the drop base causing other issues worse than a smaller filter?
I agree with Mr P Body - it depends 
It depends on whether there is enough area to begin with, whether the top is too close to the bowl vents, and the shape of the base.
My observation from stuff I've bought is that some drop bases have a very steep slope just inside the aircleaner. Others are a lot smoother.
Same with the tops. I was using a K&N filter top, but internally it was pinching the gap to the drop base. Externally, it was placing the retaining rod and nut very close to the hood. I switched to a nicely shaped spun aluminum top and picked up room both inside the aircleaner and hood clearance. So now I can run a taller cleaner or add 1/2" more carb spacer if I need.
Someplace I've seen a rough calculation of filter area for cfm, I just can't recall where right now.
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Re: Air filters on race cars??
[Re: ademon]
#1715128
12/27/14 01:07 AM
12/27/14 01:07 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,127
Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,127
Bend,OR USA
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Quote:
i don't know what to do with this! seems to rev fast to 6,500. but it has to be restrictive LOL.
Dude, the distributor is on the wrong end of the motor for a six pak to work well on    All kidding aside the dual plane six pak intakes, both SB and BB limit the peak HP and torque RPM   My sixpak 512 C.I. low deck pump gas stroker made peak torque at 4500 RPM and peak HP at 5500 RPM, but that stupid car would run faster shifting it at or above 7000 RPM in 1st and 2nd gear and cross the finish line between 6300 and 7000 RPM depending on the track elevation, local weather and rear tire size I learned a long time ago to shift the car when it quit pulling hard in each gear 
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Air filters on race cars??
[Re: mopar65]
#1715129
12/27/14 01:13 AM
12/27/14 01:13 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,918
Akron, Ohio
ProSport
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,918
Akron, Ohio
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Quote:
I need to find a set up for my tunnel ram that will fit under a 7 inch tall hood scoop.
I used a couple 9" air cleaners on mine, but I think my scoop was a 9".
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Re: Air filters on race cars??
[Re: AndyF]
#1715131
12/27/14 07:58 PM
12/27/14 07:58 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,131
Thigh-Gap Junction
@#$%&*!
New user name, Same old jerk!
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New user name, Same old jerk!
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,131
Thigh-Gap Junction
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Quote:
A 410 inch engine at 7500 rpm would need a 14x4 air filter. A 500 inch engine at 7500 rpm needs a 14x5 filter. I've used 14x5 and 14x6 filters on the dyno with 500 inches and a 1250 Dominator and there is no restriction. But it is hard to fit that large of a filter under a hood unless you use an extra tall 6 pack style.
Well, I don't rev my 500 to 7500, at least not intentionally My Wix Racing 16x3.5 equates to a 14x4 and shows no restriction to 7000 but I expect the Wix racing media flows better than the K&N. Going to a 16" filter helps overcome some of the geometric difficulties of a close carb-to-hood space, especially with a Dominator. I'd been wanting to delete the scoop for years and finally got around to it last winter. Still have to paint the hood to match the rest of the car. No loss in performance shows tall isn't necessary, just the easiest route.
For anyone who wants to browse the Wix Racing catalog: http://www.wixfilters.com/Speciality/Racing.aspx?1
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Re: Air filters on race cars??
[Re: AndyF]
#1715132
12/27/14 08:08 PM
12/27/14 08:08 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
A 410 inch engine at 7500 rpm would need a 14x4 air filter. A 500 inch engine at 7500 rpm needs a 14x5 filter. I've used 14x5 and 14x6 filters on the dyno with 500 inches and a 1250 Dominator and there is no restriction. But it is hard to fit that large of a filter under a hood unless you use an extra tall 6 pack style.
What air temps did you test at... as the temps go up
the flow goes down... but what you show is good to know
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Re: Air filters on race cars??
[Re: Thumperdart]
#1715134
12/27/14 08:21 PM
12/27/14 08:21 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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I'm not real happy with the filter I will have to run on my Rampage.. I checked it today and I'm gonna have to drop to a 2 3/4" filter.. might get a 3" in there.. I might take it off for racing
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Re: Air filters on race cars??
[Re: rebel]
#1715137
12/27/14 09:29 PM
12/27/14 09:29 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
next test was to just place my drop base over the duct & redo the test. straight away the peak value jumped up. so sorry to say Mr P. drop bases actually straighten the air & improve airflow.
I/m glad to see your testing.. but that wasnt what
I seen on the filter flow bench at work... but its
good to see your testing... by the way I tested with
a lid on it with a filter... what your pulling is
direct and the inner radius helps flow as you see... thats
why I run a stack or as its called.. a ideal entry
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Re: Air filters on race cars??
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1715138
12/27/14 10:24 PM
12/27/14 10:24 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,531
Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,531
Fulton County, PA
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I used an 11"x5" K&N assembly with the velocity stack style base. Fit inside my Harwood snorkel with an isolator plate. My scoop is mounted on the engine and stays on the car when the hood is removed. Made a difference in the looks of the cylinder walls at the end of the year. And I don't worry about rocks and junk getting thrown into the scoop. Wouldn't be with out it now.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: Air filters on race cars??
[Re: Thumperdart]
#1715139
12/28/14 12:07 AM
12/28/14 12:07 AM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,131
Thigh-Gap Junction
@#$%&*!
New user name, Same old jerk!
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New user name, Same old jerk!
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,131
Thigh-Gap Junction
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Quote:
Are you saying you run your air cleaner pokin through the hood? I`ve seen some 8-second cars w/no more than the air filter up in the wind.............
No scoop, no hole, 'glass copy of the factory '68 Barracuda hood with the pot metal inserts as well. Picture and description in my second post above somewhere...
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Re: Air filters on race cars??
[Re: @#$%&*!]
#1715140
12/28/14 02:01 AM
12/28/14 02:01 AM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 197
Milwaukee, WI
moparjimbo
member
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member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 197
Milwaukee, WI
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What I really really want is someone to make a drop dominator base that would use the Mopar oval lid, K&N makes a I think 3" tall I would have to check I cant recall Mopar oval air filter. I have that filter and a brand new "572 Hemi" factory style decaled lid sitting on a shelf waiting for such a magical base or for me to have one fabricated....
Anyone know of such a thing?
1996 Viper GTS - UGR Twin Turbo 1500RWHP, 9.02 @ 167 on pump gas and DOT tire 1973 Challenger - 572 Indy Hemi 860HP 1975 Trailduster Convertible, 440 1967 Plymouth Fury Police Pursuit 2DR 505 Stroker 2004 Neon SRT4 modded www.milwaukeemopar.com
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Re: Air filters on race cars??
[Re: moparjimbo]
#1715141
12/29/14 02:25 AM
12/29/14 02:25 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,647
aotearoa
rebel
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,647
aotearoa
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i had a couple of PM's asking me if i did a test with the filter in place, i hadn't but i have now. so this test is with my Fram Air Hogg filter, freshly cleaned with an el cheapo chrome lid, as the test showed, it's still better than no filter plate at all.
Last edited by rebel; 12/29/14 02:28 AM.
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Re: Air filters on race cars??
[Re: rebel]
#1715144
12/29/14 03:05 AM
12/29/14 03:05 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
i had a couple of PM's asking me if i did a test with the filter in place, i hadn't but i have now. so this test is with my Fram Air Hogg filter, freshly cleaned with an el cheapo chrome lid, as the test showed, it's still better than no filter plate at all.
I like your numbers... how tall is your test filter...
also I tested the K&N but your filter looks much nicer
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