Moparts
Air filters on race cars??
Posted By: DemonDust
Air filters on race cars?? - 12/25/14 01:20 AM
What are you guys using for air filters? I notice if I take mine off I can Rev above 9200 rpms. Is there a air cleaner that can handle high rpms and cfm?
Or do you just run without them?
Posted By: Bigcube
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/25/14 01:31 AM
I tested with and without the air cleaner and the car ran the same in the 1/8. Mine is a big filter, 16x3 I believe.
Posted By: AndyF
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/25/14 01:55 AM
I use a K&N 14x6 air cleaner on the dyno. No power loss at 900+ hp. So if you have room for a big air filter then you should run one. Not only does it keep junk out of the engine but it can also help improve the air flow to the carb. An open hood scoop can have a lot of airflow over the carb which can disturb how the air goes into the carb. The air filter element slows down the air and helps it make the turn into the carb.
Posted By: Crizila
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/25/14 02:12 AM
Simply put, if you wanna run an air filter, find the biggest one that will fit your application. If your car runs better with one, you have turbulence / A/F mixture issues or the carb is too big - all of which should be corrected by other means than installing an air filter. No matter how you cut it, an air filter is a restriction.
Posted By: Thumperdart
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/25/14 02:23 AM
I run a 3x14 but it`s a small loss in the 1/8 and it does richen up slightly at idle when tuned w/out it on............
Posted By: D-50
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/25/14 02:44 AM
Never run one...
Posted By: rebel
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/25/14 03:19 AM
our track unfortunately has some stones lifting off the seal on the return road & after seeing 1 racer get a stone flick up from their front wheel & lodge itself into carbs butterflies, i would never ever run without some kind of filtration on my carb. the car with the stone in the butterflies took off with front brakes locked on & plowed into another racecar before the owner could shut it off. not a happy day for 2 racers that day. i'm using Frams Airhogg air cleaner. it's pretty good, virtualy no difference with it on or off, but i now leave it on.
Posted By: Cab_Burge
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/25/14 03:42 AM
Quote:
What are you guys using for air filters? I notice if I take mine off I can Rev above 9200 rpms. Is there a air cleaner that can handle high rpms and cfm?
Or do you just run without them?
I think if you double the diameter on your size air cleaner it will triple the air flow abiltiys of that size air cleaner. Try contacting K&N tech or go on thier web site for the formula on how to figure the total square area of thier filters 
Years ago I dyno tested two different K&N Extreme filter tops on two different 14 inch diameter air cleaners on two different dynos, both times the motors loss right at 8 HP 
I did a similar test at the track A,B,A test on the one of the same lids on a 14 inch K&N aircleaner on a 1050 Holley Dominator carb and the stupid dang car went a little quicker ET (.03 to .04)and faster (.3 and .25MPH) with the lid on, two times So I ended up leaving it on. I have dyno tested other air cleaners on other motors also, as you have found out to little will cost you HP and some times torque, not so on two big 
IHTHs EDITED, I don't race without a decent filter now, especially as I get older and don't like reringing motors sooner than I could by using a decent air filter 
Posted By: SpareParts
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/25/14 03:56 AM
I don't use one
Posted By: sixpackgut
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/25/14 05:40 AM
Speaker grill
Posted By: gregsdart
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/25/14 05:48 AM
The K & N web site has the formula for square inches of filter to hp for no loss. If I recall it is 7 hp for each square inch of filter using the K&N type. I bought a 6 x 14 for next year. I learned the hard way it is impossible for the most part to aviod getting some dirt in the motor. When I saw the dirt film in the throttle body that did it for me.
Posted By: tubtar
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/25/14 07:31 AM
Yep......K&N makes some nice stuff and bigger is better here for sure.
Posted By: DemonDust
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/25/14 02:10 PM
Thanks for all the info guys!
Merry Christmas!
Posted By: Crizila
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/25/14 03:22 PM
Quote:
our track unfortunately has some stones lifting off the seal on the return road & after seeing 1 racer get a stone flick up from their front wheel & lodge itself into carbs butterflies, i would never ever run without some kind of filtration on my carb. the car with the stone in the butterflies took off with front brakes locked on & plowed into another racecar before the owner could shut it off. not a happy day for 2 racers that day. i'm using Frams Airhogg air cleaner. it's pretty good, virtualy no difference with it on or off, but i now leave it on.
and if you are going to use a "conventional" round style air filter, get one with a breathable top. Just that much more area that is seldom used.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/25/14 03:51 PM
Quote:
Quote:
our track unfortunately has some stones lifting off the seal on the return road & after seeing 1 racer get a stone flick up from their front wheel & lodge itself into carbs butterflies, i would never ever run without some kind of filtration on my carb. the car with the stone in the butterflies took off with front brakes locked on & plowed into another racecar before the owner could shut it off. not a happy day for 2 racers that day. i'm using Frams Airhogg air cleaner. it's pretty good, virtualy no difference with it on or off, but i now leave it on.
and if you are going to use a "conventional" round style air filter, get one with a breathable top. Just that much more area that is seldom used.
I found the top lid causes issues on flow... you get
2 different air paths that crash into each other
and in the end you get less into the carb... I also
see that its worse if you have a drop base because
the air is going up first then has to turn down to
get into the carb.. but the side air is plowing into
the lid air ... on the track I dont run a air cleaner
Posted By: camastomcat
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/25/14 04:41 PM
I wouldn't run without one. Rocks and sand are a killer. Big K&N under the scoop.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/25/14 04:47 PM
Quote:
I wouldn't run without one. Rocks and sand are a killer. Big K&N under the scoop.
I was gonna try to make a lite filter for the inlet
of my scoop but never got around to it.. I cant put
one in the scoop... but basically it would stop sticks
and rocks
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/25/14 05:04 PM
here's what I use on a dominator. its a moroso 16x3. I painted the lid and put a 4" in it.
Posted By: radar
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/25/14 05:15 PM
I remember a few years ago this came up and everybody was talking about how they use one of those filters that looks like a flat box with a wedge in the front all the air came in the top/front. Don't remember the name. I remember looking them up since I was looking for a better option under my 340 scoop. Too much $$ for my street effort.
Edit: looked it up on google image- 'UNI' filter
Posted By: sr4440
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/25/14 05:16 PM
Had a big block chevy on the dyno, tuned it for max power, THEN the owner mentions he runs an air cleaner and it’s in the truck. We put it on and the engine loss 26 HP, then lean the carb back down and gained 28 HP.
Joe
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/25/14 05:28 PM
When we were designing air filters and housing we
designed them for the max power... ALL filters are a
restriction but we had to use that to our benefit..
I prefer to have the filter element as a remote and
plumb the air in with a nice radiused inlet to the
carb or throttle body to straighten the air out
Posted By: Chris2581
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/25/14 05:28 PM
Quote:
I remember a few years ago this came up and everybody was talking about how they use one of those filters that looks like a flat box with a wedge in the front all the air came in the top/front. Don't remember the name. I remember looking them up since I was looking for a better option under my 340 scoop. Too much $$ for my street effort.
UNI air filter.
Posted By: ProSport
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/25/14 05:34 PM
Quote:
I remember a few years ago this came up and everybody was talking about how they use one of those filters that looks like a flat box with a wedge in the front all the air came in the top/front. Don't remember the name. I remember looking them up since I was looking for a better option under my 340 scoop. Too much $$ for my street effort.
Uni-Filter, they are expensive.....
http://www.hoffpro.com/category_s/95.htm
Posted By: ProSport
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/25/14 05:42 PM
If my car ever makes it to a track I will probably use a screen from Intensity, it will at least keep rocks and birds out. I can only fit a 10x2.75 air cleaner on my car and there's no way it will feed a 500" engine at WOT. Speaker covers work also, as Sixpackgut mentioned.
I had a 340 Scamp years ago that ran great with a 14x5 K&N but my big block cars have always slowed down with an air cleaner so I ran for many years without one.
http://intensityracingproducts.com/proseriesscreens.html
Posted By: J_BODY
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/25/14 05:43 PM
UNI filter worked well with our cowl hood on our W5 mill.... unfortunately this set up came in at .75" too high, so the 4150 carb is on for the time being. I never ran a filter on the Mirada. Dang top of the carb was up in the Dart Sport hood scoop I was running.... no room.
....and yes, these are basically "bug and rock" catchers imho, kind of like the K&N filters I see in so many diesel trucks.... with blowby.
Posted By: ProSport
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/25/14 05:47 PM
I believe this is ActionAnge's car?
He runs 10's with no problems, 11" air bell and 9" Xstream top.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/25/14 05:54 PM
Quote:
UNI filter worked well with our cowl hood on our W5 mill.... unfortunately this set up came in at .75" too high, so the 4150 carb is on for the time being. I never ran a filter on the Mirada. Dang top of the carb was up in the Dart Sport hood scoop I was running.... no room.
....and yes, these are basically "bug and rock" catchers imho, kind of like the K&N filters I see in so many diesel trucks.... with blowby.
The Uni you show here.. how tall is it... I have to
find something(or build) to fit under my cowl hood..
with a 4150 I can fit a 14 X 3" but with the new
throttle body it sits taller... plus I have to have
a spacer to clear the linkage
Posted By: J_BODY
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/25/14 05:57 PM
Posted By: dvw
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/25/14 06:03 PM
Quote:
http://shop.unifilter.com/c/automotive_racing-air-filters
measurements included....
The replacement filters are cheap. I can make my own pan.
Doug
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/25/14 06:06 PM
From the measurements it looks like I might be making
something... but I'll make my final measurements today
when I can close the hood(still working under there
so I have to clear some stuff out of the way)
Posted By: Thumperdart
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/25/14 06:26 PM
Quote:
UNI filter worked well with our cowl hood on our W5 mill.... unfortunately this set up came in at .75" too high, so the 4150 carb is on for the time being. I never ran a filter on the Mirada. Dang top of the carb was up in the Dart Sport hood scoop I was running.... no room.
....and yes, these are basically "bug and rock" catchers imho, kind of like the K&N filters I see in so many diesel trucks.... with blowby.
Wanna sell it by chance? If not cool and I really need to either make something like this or make one like Mike said that fits the entrance and leaves the carb open. I also wonder about the different shapes and locations and it`s affects on air flow w/these different designs(Uni)type being that there`s a wall if you will around the carb instead of air flowing over and through like the standard round types.............. 
Posted By: J_BODY
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/25/14 06:35 PM
not for sale.... I'll end up with a 4500 on this engine eventually. Just going to play with it with the 4150 for a bit. I actually have an intake that has been modded for a 4500 now on the other engine I picked up.
Posted By: Thumperdart
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/25/14 06:43 PM
No problem..................
Time to get my thinking cap on and see how I can improve my set up some.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/25/14 06:51 PM
Wanna sell it by chance? If not cool and I really need to either make something like this or make one like Mike said that fits the entrance and leaves the carb open.
I also wonder about the different shapes and locations and it`s affects on air flow w/these different designs(Uni)type being that there`s a wall if you will around the carb instead of air flowing over and through like the standard round types..............
IF these are like I think they are then the area
that they have with less filtering is equal to something
like a 14" X 4" round with the standard filter.. just
a guess on its filter micron
Posted By: Crizila
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/25/14 06:51 PM
Haven't tried running without it yet. Any debris in there could be expensive. I believe Procharger recommends a filter.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/25/14 07:08 PM
I think I'll do like Doug did and make a base for
the Uni... but I need to make a plate to seal in the
cowl so I'll see what I can come up with.. first I
need to get the injection running... see if I can
down load the basic program today if I get the chance
Posted By: WheelsUp73
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/25/14 09:43 PM
I run a 14 x 3 filter in a Ram Air Box. I picked up .2 in the qtr and 4 mph with this setup vs an open carb unfiltered with no hoodscoop.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/25/14 09:47 PM
Quote:
I run a 14 x 3 filter in a Ram Air Box. I picked up .2 in the qtr and 4 mph with this setup vs an open carb unfiltered with no hoodscoop.
It should since you were putting some pressure to the
intake with that set up
Posted By: A/MP
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/25/14 10:15 PM
The pro stockers run K&N filters in their scoops. It straightens out the air flow. That's the secret. Straighten out the air flow. It allows the carb to perform its simple task.
Posted By: Thumperdart
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/25/14 10:19 PM
Quote:
The pro stockers run K&N filters in their scoops. It straightens out the air flow. That's the secret. Straighten out the air flow. It allows the carb to perform its simple task.
Never seen one in there when I looked...........
Posted By: boatracer572
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/25/14 10:29 PM
scoop filter
Posted By: Thumperdart
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/25/14 10:56 PM
Quote:
scoop filter
I know the one your talking about just havn`t seen em in Pro-Stock but I am blind............. 
Posted By: markz528
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/25/14 11:04 PM
I use the K&N filter that mounts inside the harwood hood scoop. I really like it.
Posted By: @#$%&*!
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/26/14 02:10 AM
Quote:
What are you guys using for air filters? I notice if I take mine off I can Rev above 9200 rpms. Is there a air cleaner that can handle high rpms and cfm?
Or do you just run without them?
For a long time I used a K&N flat panel filter that fit inside my Harwood Mini-Aero scoop. I had to build the framework to mount it inside the scoop but it worked out well. The AFR tended to richen up gradually above 6500rpm but not enough to worry about. I think the Fram equivalent I used for a while actually flowed better. I never oiled the K&N element. The most recent engine is a 500ci B with Indy intake and 1150 Holley.
Posted By: @#$%&*!
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/26/14 02:22 AM
Now I use a Wix Racing 16"x3.5" filter in a homemade box, taking air from the grill area (no more hood scoop for me). AFR no longer richens up at the top end of the 1/4 mile, no speed or ET lost (ran 132.5mph at the recent bracket finals at woodburn.) It's a little different
Carburetor is IN the airbox, bottom of the box is sandwiched between the carb and intake. Underside of the hood IS the top of the air cleaner (about 2-1/2" clearance for carb top). This way the filter element is as high as possible. Airbox just lifts off once the hoses are disconnected.
One nice thing about running an air cleaner is that it shows you the items that WOULD have gone through the engine, all trapped outside the filter. To generate some pressure I fabbed two panels that closed off the areas above and below the grill, making it a closed space. Air coming into the grill has to go through the air cleaner or radiator.
Why would anyone run without an air filter? The speaker grill idea that has been mentioned in several posts will not keep anything out that matters. Grit will chew up the innards of an engine so fast. We have 5" tall 9" diameter K and N on the 452 in the RR as we have salt, road grit, tan-tan leaves, rocks, small children, Sahara dust etc all in the atmosphere here.
Posted By: vc360
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/26/14 12:58 PM
These guys make some different stuff.
http://www.universalspinners.com
Posted By: LSP
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/26/14 03:13 PM
Quote:
What are you guys using for air filters? I notice if I take mine off I can Rev above 9200 rpms. Is there a air cleaner that can handle high rpms and cfm?
Or do you just run without them?
The Wix Racing filter is what was used on your motor in NASCAR, no hp loss in the airbox, get the tallest one you can fit.
Posted By: DemonDust
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/26/14 05:19 PM
The uni filter looks like it would work great with a cowl scoop. Anyone have experience with the uni filter?
Doesn't the NASCAR air pan require duct work as well to make it efficient? The wix filters are fairly cheap if I remember correctly.
Posted By: LSP
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/26/14 07:00 PM
Quote:
Doesn't the NASCAR air pan require duct work as well to make it efficient? The wix filters are fairly cheap if I remember correctly.
Yes, the air pan goes to a duct in the cowl, I was just talking about using the Wix Racing element.
Posted By: BradH
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/26/14 07:52 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
our track unfortunately has some stones lifting off the seal on the return road & after seeing 1 racer get a stone flick up from their front wheel & lodge itself into carbs butterflies, i would never ever run without some kind of filtration on my carb. the car with the stone in the butterflies took off with front brakes locked on & plowed into another racecar before the owner could shut it off. not a happy day for 2 racers that day. i'm using Frams Airhogg air cleaner. it's pretty good, virtualy no difference with it on or off, but i now leave it on.
and if you are going to use a "conventional" round style air filter, get one with a breathable top. Just that much more area that is seldom used.
I found the top lid causes issues on flow... you get
2 different air paths that crash into each other
and in the end you get less into the carb... I also
see that its worse if you have a drop base because
the air is going up first then has to turn down to
get into the carb.. but the side air is plowing into
the lid air ... on the track I dont run a air cleaner
All I can add to this discussion is from my own on-track testing some years ago. I was using a 14" Moroso drop-base housing w/ a K&N 14" x 3" filter and the carb was dialed in for best MPH under the conditions. I swapped to a K&N X-Stream lid and back-to-back testing the car picked up .4-.5 MPH over the standard Moroso lid.
I have limited hood clearance and this was the only way to add filter area I could work out at the time. Although I've heard more than one person p!ss on the X-Stream lid, on my car it helped.
Posted By: mshred
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/26/14 08:08 PM
I run a 14x5" tall K&N reusable filter...My buddy harassed me to make a pass with it off because the car would pick up.
I removed it and lost a tenth...He couldn't believe it! LOL...FWIW I would rather run it and know that my engine is getting the cleanest air possible instead of take the chance of feeding it dust and other debris that could possibly damage or wear it out quicker. I have seen people do tests where they lost no power with the filter, so hopefully mine is the same way
Posted By: Mattax
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/26/14 09:38 PM
The trick seems to be to run enough filter surface area not to measurably restrict.
For example, Holley ran a test in 1971 of air flow through a carb.
No air cleaner 713 cfm
Chevy hi-perf open element cleaner 675 cfm
Same as above but with two filter elements stacked 713 cfm.
They didn't publish the hights, but the point is once they had enough area, the restriction was the carb. (Mike Urich and Bill Fisher
Holley Carburetors & Manifolds 1987 edition page 71)
Another thing to consider along the line of what Mr P was describing is the impact on the bowl vents. With Holley type carbs the vent could be placed into a pressure stream, or in a weird turbulent area and that can mess up the fuel curve. A ton of ideas on modifying
Bowl Vents shared at Racing Fuel Systems.
Posted By: Thumperdart
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/26/14 09:43 PM
Quote:
The trick seems to be to run enough filter surface area not to measurably restrict.
For example, Holley ran a test in 1971 of air flow through a carb.
No air cleaner 713 cfm
Chevy hi-perf open element cleaner 675 cfm
Same as above but with two filter elements stacked 713 cfm.
They didn't publish the hights, but the point is once they had enough area, the restriction was the carb. (Mike Urich and Bill Fisher Holley Carburetors & Manifolds 1987 edition page 71)
Another thing to consider along the line of what Mr P was describing is the impact on the bowl vents. With Holley type carbs the vent could be placed into a pressure stream, or in a weird turbulent area and that can mess up the fuel curve. A ton of ideas on modifying Bowl Vents shared at Racing Fuel Systems.
Been installing an 11/32 brass sleeve over the bowl vents and I drill 4 holes in em and they work. No more pulling fuel up the tubes and the top of the carb`s cleaner. They work for those situations like mine were the lid touches the scoop or is real close.........
Posted By: GTX MATT
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/26/14 09:51 PM
How about running a bigger filter with a drop base? Is that really helping or is the drop base causing other issues worse than a smaller filter?
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/26/14 10:01 PM
Quote:
How about running a bigger filter with a drop base? Is that really helping or is the drop base causing other issues worse than a smaller filter?
From the testing I did the drop base causes the air
to go up then turn down into the carb... it can cause
disturbance with the direction changes.. but is it
greater or lesser than the small height air cleaner..
I'm sure that at some point its a wash.. but if you
can go to a larger diameter that should help so the air
has a longer area to make the turn
Posted By: Crizila
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/26/14 10:03 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
our track unfortunately has some stones lifting off the seal on the return road & after seeing 1 racer get a stone flick up from their front wheel & lodge itself into carbs butterflies, i would never ever run without some kind of filtration on my carb. the car with the stone in the butterflies took off with front brakes locked on & plowed into another racecar before the owner could shut it off. not a happy day for 2 racers that day. i'm using Frams Airhogg air cleaner. it's pretty good, virtualy no difference with it on or off, but i now leave it on.
and if you are going to use a "conventional" round style air filter, get one with a breathable top. Just that much more area that is seldom used.
I found the top lid causes issues on flow... you get
2 different air paths that crash into each other
and in the end you get less into the carb... I also
see that its worse if you have a drop base because
the air is going up first then has to turn down to
get into the carb.. but the side air is plowing into
the lid air ... on the track I dont run a air cleaner
All I can add to this discussion is from my own on-track testing some years ago. I was using a 14" Moroso drop-base housing w/ a K&N 14" x 3" filter and the carb was dialed in for best MPH under the conditions. I swapped to a K&N X-Stream lid and back-to-back testing the car picked up .4-.5 MPH over the standard Moroso lid.
I have limited hood clearance and this was the only way to add filter area I could work out at the time. Although I've heard more than one person p!ss on the X-Stream lid, on my car it helped.
Helped on mine also. I have some issues with it disrupting air flow in to the carb, especially since it covers a lot more area than the inlet area of the carb it is sitting on. If there is an air flow disruption, I would think a lot depends on the distance of the top to the carb inlet. I still think the more filter area you have, the better.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/26/14 10:07 PM
Quote:
I run a 14x5" tall K&N reusable filter...My buddy harassed me to make a pass with it off because the car would pick up.
I removed it and lost a tenth...He couldn't believe it! LOL...FWIW I would rather run it and know that my engine is getting the cleanest air possible instead of take the chance of feeding it dust and other debris that could possibly damage or wear it out quicker. I have seen people do tests where they lost no power with the filter, so hopefully mine is the same way
Did you jet up or down after taking the air cleaner
off... without finding the A/F point that your engine
likes for max power you didnt do anything but change
the A/F ratio.. nothing is ever as easy as.. just
do this or that and this occurs
Posted By: mopar65
Re: Air filters on race cars?? *DELETED* - 12/26/14 10:10 PM
Post deleted by mopar65
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/26/14 10:17 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
our track unfortunately has some stones lifting off the seal on the return road & after seeing 1 racer get a stone flick up from their front wheel & lodge itself into carbs butterflies, i would never ever run without some kind of filtration on my carb. the car with the stone in the butterflies took off with front brakes locked on & plowed into another racecar before the owner could shut it off. not a happy day for 2 racers that day. i'm using Frams Airhogg air cleaner. it's pretty good, virtualy no difference with it on or off, but i now leave it on.
and if you are going to use a "conventional" round style air filter, get one with a breathable top. Just that much more area that is seldom used.
I found the top lid causes issues on flow... you get
2 different air paths that crash into each other
and in the end you get less into the carb... I also
see that its worse if you have a drop base because
the air is going up first then has to turn down to
get into the carb.. but the side air is plowing into
the lid air ... on the track I dont run a air cleaner
All I can add to this discussion is from my own on-track testing some years ago. I was using a 14" Moroso drop-base housing w/ a K&N 14" x 3" filter and the carb was dialed in for best MPH under the conditions. I swapped to a K&N X-Stream lid and back-to-back testing the car picked up .4-.5 MPH over the standard Moroso lid.
I have limited hood clearance and this was the only way to add filter area I could work out at the time. Although I've heard more than one person p!ss on the X-Stream lid, on my car it helped.
Helped on mine also. I have some issues with it disrupting air flow in to the carb, especially since it covers a lot more area than the inlet area of the carb it is sitting on. If there is an air flow disruption, I would think a lot depends on the distance of the top to the carb inlet. I still think the more filter area you have, the better.
More air is better... I'm sure that if you run a taller
filter the lid has less effect on it than a shorter
filter.. but air coming in from 2 different directions
and 90* from another does have effect... and the
closer they are the worse things get
Posted By: ademon
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/27/14 02:31 AM
i don't know what to do with this! seems to rev fast to 6,500. but it has to be restrictive LOL.
.jpg "8374602-demon009(1280x960).jpg")
Posted By: @#$%&*!
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/27/14 03:04 AM
Quote:
Did you jet up or down after taking the air cleaner
off... without finding the A/F point that your engine
likes for max power you didnt do anything but change
the A/F ratio.. nothing is ever as easy as.. just
do this or that and this occurs
I have a friend who runs the 14x3 with pleated filter top. Based on results I've seen posted here in the past I got him to make a pass without it. The car lost more than a tenth but the AFR leaned out 2 points and was dead flat instead of the wacky variations it normally has. He insisted in putting it back on instead of jetting up a little so the test was incomplete. I have no doubt that the air cleaner is restrictive on this '70 Swinger with 410ci smallblock and a 350+lb driver that was sooo close to that 10.0et he desperately wanted. It most likely would have cracked a 9 if I was driving it just due to the weight reduction. Logging AFR will show a restrictive air filter as richening at higher engine speeds.
Posted By: Mattax
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/27/14 03:39 AM
Quote:
How about running a bigger filter with a drop base? Is that really helping or is the drop base causing other issues worse than a smaller filter?
I agree with Mr P Body - it depends 
It depends on whether there is enough area to begin with, whether the top is too close to the bowl vents, and the shape of the base.
My observation from stuff I've bought is that some drop bases have a very steep slope just inside the aircleaner. Others are a lot smoother.
Same with the tops. I was using a K&N filter top, but internally it was pinching the gap to the drop base. Externally, it was placing the retaining rod and nut very close to the hood. I switched to a nicely shaped spun aluminum top and picked up room both inside the aircleaner and hood clearance. So now I can run a taller cleaner or add 1/2" more carb spacer if I need.
Someplace I've seen a rough calculation of filter area for cfm, I just can't recall where right now.
Posted By: Cab_Burge
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/27/14 05:07 AM
Quote:
i don't know what to do with this! seems to rev fast to 6,500. but it has to be restrictive LOL.
Dude, the distributor is on the wrong end of the motor for a six pak to work well on 
All kidding aside the dual plane six pak intakes, both SB and BB limit the peak HP and torque RPM My sixpak 512 C.I. low deck pump gas stroker made peak torque at 4500 RPM and peak HP at 5500 RPM, but that stupid car would run faster shifting it at or above 7000 RPM in 1st and 2nd gear and cross the finish line between 6300 and 7000 RPM depending on the track elevation, local weather and rear tire size I learned a long time ago to shift the car when it quit pulling hard in each gear
Posted By: ProSport
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/27/14 05:13 AM
Quote:
I need to find a set up for my tunnel ram that will fit under a 7 inch tall hood scoop.
I used a couple 9" air cleaners on mine, but I think my scoop was a 9".
Posted By: AndyF
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/27/14 05:17 AM
A 410 inch engine at 7500 rpm would need a 14x4 air filter. A 500 inch engine at 7500 rpm needs a 14x5 filter. I've used 14x5 and 14x6 filters on the dyno with 500 inches and a 1250 Dominator and there is no restriction. But it is hard to fit that large of a filter under a hood unless you use an extra tall 6 pack style.
Posted By: @#$%&*!
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/27/14 11:58 PM
Quote:
A 410 inch engine at 7500 rpm would need a 14x4 air filter. A 500 inch engine at 7500 rpm needs a 14x5 filter. I've used 14x5 and 14x6 filters on the dyno with 500 inches and a 1250 Dominator and there is no restriction. But it is hard to fit that large of a filter under a hood unless you use an extra tall 6 pack style.
Well, I don't rev my 500 to 7500, at least not intentionally My Wix Racing 16x3.5 equates to a 14x4 and shows no restriction to 7000 but I expect the Wix racing media flows better than the K&N. Going to a 16" filter helps overcome some of the geometric difficulties of a close carb-to-hood space, especially with a Dominator. I'd been wanting to delete the scoop for years and finally got around to it last winter. Still have to paint the hood to match the rest of the car. No loss in performance shows tall isn't necessary, just the easiest route.
For anyone who wants to browse the Wix Racing catalog: http://www.wixfilters.com/Speciality/Racing.aspx?1
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/28/14 12:08 AM
Quote:
A 410 inch engine at 7500 rpm would need a 14x4 air filter. A 500 inch engine at 7500 rpm needs a 14x5 filter. I've used 14x5 and 14x6 filters on the dyno with 500 inches and a 1250 Dominator and there is no restriction. But it is hard to fit that large of a filter under a hood unless you use an extra tall 6 pack style.
What air temps did you test at... as the temps go up
the flow goes down... but what you show is good to know
Posted By: Thumperdart
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/28/14 12:11 AM
Quote:
Quote:
A 410 inch engine at 7500 rpm would need a 14x4 air filter. A 500 inch engine at 7500 rpm needs a 14x5 filter. I've used 14x5 and 14x6 filters on the dyno with 500 inches and a 1250 Dominator and there is no restriction. But it is hard to fit that large of a filter under a hood unless you use an extra tall 6 pack style.
Well, I don't rev my 500 to 7500, at least not intentionally My Wix Racing 16x3.5 equates to a 14x4 and shows no restriction to 7000 but I expect the Wix racing media flows better than the K&N. Going to a 16" filter helps overcome some of the geometric difficulties of a close carb-to-hood space, especially with a Dominator. I'd been wanting to delete the scoop for years and finally got around to it last winter. Still have to paint the hood to match the rest of the car. No loss in performance shows tall isn't necessary, just the easiest route.
For anyone who wants to browse the Wix Racing catalog: http://www.wixfilters.com/Speciality/Racing.aspx?1
Are you saying you run your air cleaner pokin through the hood? I`ve seen some 8-second cars w/no more than the air filter up in the wind.............
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/28/14 12:21 AM
I'm not real happy with the filter I will have to
run on my Rampage.. I checked it today and I'm gonna
have to drop to a 2 3/4" filter.. might get a 3" in
there.. I might take it off for racing
Posted By: rebel
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/28/14 01:14 AM
Quote:
From the testing I did the drop base causes the air
to go up then turn down into the carb... it can cause
disturbance with the direction changes.. but is it
greater or lesser than the small height air cleaner..
I'm sure that at some point its a wash.. but if you
can go to a larger diameter that should help so the air
has a longer area to make the turn
being in the airflow industry i kinda disagree with Mr P logic. so since the beer frig was empty & with nothing else to do i thought i'd do a lil test to see if he was right. i set up a test with a fan sucking down a piece of 6 inch ducting. i set my airflow meter up so i could get readings from the same location for both tests. only having 2 hands i had to do the test, get the peak value, press the hold button, take my hand off the fan switch which only worked when pressed & then take my photo. as you can see with just a free flow & no shrouding i got 117 ft/min peak reading.
Posted By: rebel
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/28/14 01:18 AM
next test was to just place my drop base over the duct & redo the test. straight away the peak value jumped up. so sorry to say Mr P. drop bases actually straighten the air & improve airflow.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/28/14 01:29 AM
Quote:
next test was to just place my drop base over the duct & redo the test. straight away the peak value jumped up. so sorry to say Mr P. drop bases actually straighten the air & improve airflow.
I/m glad to see your testing.. but that wasnt what
I seen on the filter flow bench at work... but its
good to see your testing... by the way I tested with
a lid on it with a filter... what your pulling is
direct and the inner radius helps flow as you see... thats
why I run a stack or as its called.. a ideal entry
Posted By: CMcAllister
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/28/14 02:24 AM
I used an 11"x5" K&N assembly with the velocity stack style base. Fit inside my Harwood snorkel with an isolator plate. My scoop is mounted on the engine and stays on the car when the hood is removed. Made a difference in the looks of the cylinder walls at the end of the year. And I don't worry about rocks and junk getting thrown into the scoop. Wouldn't be with out it now.
Posted By: @#$%&*!
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/28/14 04:07 AM
Quote:
Are you saying you run your air cleaner pokin through the hood? I`ve seen some 8-second cars w/no more than the air filter up in the wind.............
No scoop, no hole, 'glass copy of the factory '68 Barracuda hood with the pot metal inserts as well. Picture and description in my second post above somewhere...
Posted By: moparjimbo
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/28/14 06:01 AM
What I really really want is someone to make a drop dominator base that would use the Mopar oval lid, K&N makes a I think 3" tall I would have to check I cant recall Mopar oval air filter. I have that filter and a brand new "572 Hemi" factory style decaled lid sitting on a shelf waiting for such a magical base or for me to have one fabricated....
Anyone know of such a thing?
Posted By: rebel
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/29/14 06:25 AM
i had a couple of PM's asking me if i did a test with the filter in place, i hadn't but i have now. so this test is with my Fram Air Hogg filter, freshly cleaned with an el cheapo chrome lid, as the test showed, it's still better than no filter plate at all.
Posted By: rebel
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/29/14 06:30 AM
and the last test with the filtered lid. still not as good as just the drop base but definately better than the el cheapo lid
Posted By: Dragula
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/29/14 06:45 AM
Learned this many years ago with my old 340 car....It used to print time slips, but one day we messed with drop bases and air filters vs. none....
Same conclusion, drop bases work. Adding a filter is a restriction, but the right filter should net nearly zero as compared to wide open we lost 1/10th without the drop base and filter...
I like your test method, numbers don't lie....
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/29/14 07:05 AM
Quote:
i had a couple of PM's asking me if i did a test with the filter in place, i hadn't but i have now. so this test is with my Fram Air Hogg filter, freshly cleaned with an el cheapo chrome lid, as the test showed, it's still better than no filter plate at all.
I like your numbers... how tall is your test filter...
also I tested the K&N but your filter looks much nicer
Posted By: rebel
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/29/14 07:42 AM
it's a 4" Mr P. i have a 3" K&N but it's MIA in the garage somewhere. i wanted to give that a clean too & compare but i only have (had?) the round element part.
Posted By: Thumperdart
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/29/14 07:55 AM
I know just putting the 3" filter and lid on my car, it gets rich and the idle drops just a tad so what`s it doin past 7000 r`s? I`d be curious on that test............
Posted By: slammedR/T
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/29/14 08:05 AM
I'm leaning towards the uni filter as it's shape will be perfect for my hood. I always ran with out a filter because i felt a difference in my 93 dakota when racing with filter on or off. Also the truck pulled more rpm than it would with the filter on. But I'm pretty sure the stock hood played a major role in that the filter was most likely against the hood reducing air flow.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/29/14 03:36 PM
Quote:
it's a 4" Mr P. i have a 3" K&N but it's MIA in the garage somewhere. i wanted to give that a clean too & compare but i only have (had?) the round element part.
Yeah I ran a 3" K&N... I was curious why you got different
number.. I also forgot what flow I did this at but I
believe it was a fair bit higher... wish I still had
my paper work
Posted By: gregsdart
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/30/14 04:43 PM
Quote:
I need to find a set up for my tunnel ram that will fit under a 7 inch tall hood scoop.
If you go to K&Ns web site they have many different shapes of filters. You may have to get creative to build the base, but lids are easy to make out of aluminum plate should you need every last bit of room. For my race motor with a Dominater flange I used a drop base attached to an air pan combined with a 14x6 and a flat lid to get it under my scoop.
Posted By: 1320Dart
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/30/14 04:51 PM
Quote:
Quote:
I need to find a set up for my tunnel ram that will fit under a 7 inch tall hood scoop.
If you go to K&Ns web site they have many different shapes of filters. You may have to get creative to build the base, but lids are easy to make out of aluminum plate should you need every last bit of room. For my race motor with a Dominater flange I used a drop base attached to an air pan combined with a 14x6 and a flat lid to get it under my scoop.
Is there a better shape of filter to strive for? I've read many many many articles on this. Just curious to here my Moparts guys on this....
Posted By: Thumperdart
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/30/14 05:33 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I need to find a set up for my tunnel ram that will fit under a 7 inch tall hood scoop.
If you go to K&Ns web site they have many different shapes of filters. You may have to get creative to build the base, but lids are easy to make out of aluminum plate should you need every last bit of room. For my race motor with a Dominater flange I used a drop base attached to an air pan combined with a 14x6 and a flat lid to get it under my scoop.
Is there a better shape of filter to strive for? I've read many many many articles on this. Just curious to here my Moparts guys on this....
DO TELL.................... 
Posted By: Thumperdart
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/30/14 05:50 PM
After reading the Wix flow #`s compared to the K&N`s, I think for now I`ll lower my sealed base and run a 4" w/no lid squeezed againtsed the scoop till I figure out the scoop deal. The K&N I run they say flows in the 700`s where the Wix racing is 1000+ so I`ll start there..........
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/30/14 06:06 PM
I have to use a spacer for the air cleaner to clear
the linkage and yesterday I seen that the front of
the 14" dia filter hits the hood and holds it up a
little... I'm gonna try angle cutting the spacer to
see if that will clear... I dont want to go any shorter
than the 3" filter that I am using... this is on my
throttle body.. but it was about the same on the 850
carb.. but that was a bit lower(no spacer)
EDIT
Plus I'm dumping the K&N that was a gift to me..
but I need the flow
Posted By: Thumperdart
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/30/14 06:18 PM
I`m in the same boat Mike so I`ll adjust that too. You really should look into the Wix racing filters.........
Posted By: StealthWedge67
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/30/14 06:39 PM
I had been running a cheap 14x3 auto parts store filter for the past few years..... Just installed a new WIX Racing filter. My setup is a RamAirBox breathing through the grille. Wish I could fit a taller filter, but 3" with a drop base has me right against the hood.
Posted By: Thumperdart
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/30/14 06:41 PM
So can you see/feel a difference? Do u have a wide-band?
Posted By: StealthWedge67
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/30/14 06:47 PM
Litrally just recieved it from Summit yesterday and istalled in last night. Doubt I'll FEEL any difference, but I'll be watching the timeslip! No, I don't have a wideband. It's on my priority list, though; Might even get one this winter (???).
Posted By: Thumperdart
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/30/14 07:20 PM
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/30/14 07:30 PM
Quote:
I had been running a cheap 14x3 auto parts store filter for the past few years..... Just installed a new WIX Racing filter. My setup is a RamAirBox breathing through the grille. Wish I could fit a taller filter, but 3" with a drop base has me right against the hood.
I really like those Ram type boxes with the hoses..
I'm trying to set something up like that with my cowl
hood
Posted By: mopar65
Re: Air filters on race cars?? *DELETED* - 12/30/14 08:29 PM
Post deleted by mopar65
Posted By: Moparmal
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/31/14 04:22 AM
My RW dyno results with a single carb on the
Modman
Carb was a 800cfm AVS THUNDER
KN 14x3 with Xtreme lid - 318 RWHP
MOROSO 16x3 - same day - 333 RWHP
No air cleaner - 277 RWHP
KN Hemi dual quad 2" high - twin AFB 500s - 358 RWHP
Two lessons Ive learned over time...
1 - Carters hate being run without an air bell or cleaner.
2 - Xtreme lids rob HP compared to a decent size normal filter element. Joe Sherman has made similar findings on Speed Torque.
Posted By: Moparmal
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/31/14 04:37 AM
FWIW - using the KN formula..the following applies...
A 408 spinning to 6500rpm requires 127sq" of filter surace area.
The formula is (rpmxcui) / 20,839.
Using a circle calculator - circumferance x height.
the following cam be calculated....
Your 14x3 cleaner without xtreme lid offers 131.94 sq" of surface area
A 9x5 offers 141.35 sq"
and an 8x9 provides 226 sq" of filter area.
Posted By: Moparmal
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/31/14 04:51 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I need to find a set up for my tunnel ram that will fit under a 7 inch tall hood scoop.
If you go to K&Ns web site they have many different shapes of filters. You may have to get creative to build the base, but lids are easy to make out of aluminum plate should you need every last bit of room. For my race motor with a Dominater flange I used a drop base attached to an air pan combined with a 14x6 and a flat lid to get it under my scoop.
thanks for the info. I was thinking about trying to use a air filter that is used with the six pack set up? think it would flow more air than 2 9 inch air filters? I have 2 K&N 9 inch air filters but they are 8 inches tall by them self. if i had a shop etc i8 would just run the carbs through the hood with the 8 inch tall filters.
No way no how..
A 2" high oval 6 pack filter had 121sq" of filter area. (60.75 citcumference x 2" height.)
Two 9x8s = 226.16sq" x 2 = 452sq" !!!!
Posted By: Thumperdart
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/31/14 06:42 AM
Quote:
My RW dyno results with a single carb on the
Modman
Carb was a 800cfm AVS THUNDER
KN 14x3 with Xtreme lid - 318 RWHP
MOROSO 16x3 - same day - 333 RWHP
No air cleaner - 277 RWHP
KN Hemi dual quad 2" high - twin AFB 500s - 358 RWHP
Two lessons Ive learned over time...
1 - Carters hate being run without an air bell or cleaner.
2 - Xtreme lids rob HP compared to a decent size normal filter element. Joe Sherman has made similar findings on Speed Torque.
Good info thankxxx.............So my 14x3 has been killin me from day one and the K&N site sez the 14x3 flows under 700 cfm and the Wix racing 4" flows 1000+ so that`s my next purchace. My s$%^z gonna fly next time out.......... 
Posted By: Moparmal
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/31/14 08:29 AM
What cubes and peak rpm do you run?
Posted By: tex013
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/31/14 01:37 PM
Mal , good to see you still plugging away
FWIW i have dynoed my 440 and have found less than 5 rwhp difference aircleaner to no air cleaner ., but i have seen 20/25 rwhp gain with my air box . With a six pack scoop i would never run filter free , see a few motors eat something they shouldnt on drag strips .
I run a 14x3 k&n with filter top , with drop base attached to the air box which is heat resistant fibreglass sheet . Maybe a taller filter may help
Nearly time for a new season to start
Tex
Posted By: Thumperdart
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/31/14 05:26 PM
Quote:
What cubes and peak rpm do you run?
470 BB 7500 max.............
Posted By: jcc
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/31/14 06:28 PM
Quote:
My RW dyno results with a single carb on the
Modman
Carb was a 800cfm AVS THUNDER
KN 14x3 with Xtreme lid - 318 RWHP
MOROSO 16x3 - same day - 333 RWHP
No air cleaner - 277 RWHP
KN Hemi dual quad 2" high - twin AFB 500s - 358 RWHP
Two lessons Ive learned over time...
1 - Carters hate being run without an air bell or cleaner.
2 - Xtreme lids rob HP compared to a decent size normal filter element. Joe Sherman has made similar findings on Speed Torque.
Your conclusion maybe correct, or there just might a significant difference in the restriction of a K&N vs a Moroso element besides basic area, or the amount of oiling, etc.
I believe most agree on the basic facts, its the conclusions from those facts where we differ.
Posted By: Hemi Allstate
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/31/14 07:20 PM
Good info thankxxx.............So my 14x3 has been killin me from day one and the K&N site sez the 14x3 flows under 700 cfm and the Wix racing 4" flows 1000+ so that`s my next purchace. My s$%^z gonna fly next time out..........
This is good info. I had to switch to a 3" K&N from a 4" (both 14" dia. with K&N Extreme lid) when I changed carbs to a Dominator. It looks like I likely was choking the carb/engine.
The Wix racing site shows their 14" X 3.01" to flow 1000 + CFM and they offer them in 1/4" taller increments too!
Thanks,
Mark
Posted By: Cab_Burge
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 12/31/14 08:51 PM
Moparmal, don't forget we race cars with motors, not motors on dynos
The reason I'm pointing this out is I saw 8 HP loss on two different motors on two different engines dynos at two different altitudes testing the K&N Extreme filter lids and eventually ended doing a at the track test back to back to back, A,B,A, in less than twenty minutes between each run and saw a .020 to .030 ET reduction(quicker) and .3 MPH increase on a 3x14 filter using the lid
This was on a 440 powered Duster with a sixpak type scoop molded on it, the air cleaner lid was close to the top of the scoop, less than a fingers width at the rear
It was not sealed to the scoop either
some of this hot rodding and race stuff doesn't always make since, HUH
Test, test and test some more to learn whar does work
Posted By: Moparmal
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/01/15 09:02 AM
Quote:
470 BB 7500 max.............
You need appx 164 sq" of filtering area.
A 14x3 wont do it
A 16x3 wont do it (150.75sq")
A 14 x 4" WILL work.....179 sq"r
A 14 x 3 with extreme lid will work also.... = 221 sq" of filtering area.
On the issue of filter tops...I agree people do their own trialling..
BUT... theres no point doing a back to back if the filter without the lid wont support the required flow..........
Posted By: Chris2581
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/01/15 04:59 PM
This is all good info.I'm putting my car back on the street and I'll need to use a air cleaner. Just bought some 14x3 Fram Air Hog filters at Rock Auto for less than $5.00 a filter.
Posted By: ProSport
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/01/15 05:50 PM
Here's my 10x2.75 filter on my 500" engine, if I ever make it to a track the filter will be coming off lol. I run an A-body dual snorkel factory scoop.
Posted By: BradH
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/01/15 06:44 PM
I WANT to run a filter even at the track, but the better intake manifold I'd like to use is taller than the one that I can actually fit under my T/A hood scoop and won't allow for an adequately sized filter.
Not sure if running a smaller (more restrictive) filter setup on the street, and switching out to something more of a "bird and rock catcher" screen only at the track, is a viable approach... or if that's simply fooling myself.
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/01/15 07:12 PM
didn't know the wix was that good. I guess i'll keep mine on there. I had planed on replacing it with a K&N,but i'll save my money. thanks Dom.
Posted By: Jeremiah
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/02/15 04:24 AM
http://www.r2cperformance.com/I like the idea behind these filters but I need to call them and ask about the base not having an "ideal entry" even though they sell a sub stack like product.
Great information in this thread. I guess I'll save my velocity stacks for looks when the car is in the shop.
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/02/15 06:12 AM
I have their air cleaner for 4150. looks like the bass has a very good entry the way it fits the venturi's. they also claim a better flowing filter than a K&N. nice people.
Posted By: Thumperdart
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/02/15 06:17 AM
Quote:
didn't know the wix was that good. I guess i'll keep mine on there. I had planed on replacing it with a K&N,but i'll save my money. thanks Dom.
It just makes sense to me............If I drop the Wix on my car and the idle doesn`t change then we might be on to something.
Posted By: Hemi Allstate
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/02/15 02:52 PM
Quote:
http://www.r2cperformance.com/
They claim 1600+ cfm for their 14" filters.
No prices that I could find though?
http://www.r2cperformance.com/14-inch-high-performance-street-air-filters.aspx
EDIT
I see that Summit has them.
Quite a spread on purpose and price!
http://www.summitracing.com/compare
Mark
Posted By: Crizila
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/02/15 04:25 PM
Quote:
Quote:
http://www.r2cperformance.com/
They claim 1600+ cfm for their 14" filters.
No prices that I could find though?
http://www.r2cperformance.com/14-inch-high-performance-street-air-filters.aspx
EDIT
I see that Summit has them.
Quite a spread on purpose and price!
http://www.summitracing.com/compare
Mark
on the R2C sight.
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/02/15 04:35 PM
it worth a try. I found my wix air filter on ebay for next to nothing.
Posted By: Crizila
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/02/15 04:46 PM
Lots of good info, except on the particulate size these different filter Mfg's are trying to keep out of your engine. Any of them can give you some awesome flow numbers if they are just trying to keep out - marbles.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/02/15 04:53 PM
Quote:
Lots of good info, except on the particulate size these different filter Mfg's are trying to keep out of your engine. Any of them can give you some awesome flow numbers if they are just trying to keep out - marbles.
Thats what all this is about... what micron is the filter
Posted By: Crizila
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/02/15 06:12 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Lots of good info, except on the particulate size these different filter Mfg's are trying to keep out of your engine. Any of them can give you some awesome flow numbers if they are just trying to keep out - marbles.
Thats what all this is about... what micron is the filter
"It's a secret, only 3 women know".
Posted By: Jeremiah
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/02/15 06:20 PM
Quote:
I have their air cleaner for 4150. looks like the bass has a very good entry the way it fits the venturi's. they also claim a better flowing filter than a K&N. nice people.
Dave if you have a chance can you snap a few pictures of your setup? I like their filters however the clear poly stuff is a little too "Spectre-esque" for my taste. If I could swing it I'd run a sprint car style air box on my tunnel ram under the scoop.
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/02/15 06:26 PM
I have a dominator on it right now. what do you need a pic of? when using the 850 I use their black lid.
Posted By: Jeremiah
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/02/15 06:35 PM
I was curious to see what the black lid looks like as well as a better picture of the base plate at the carb entry. No big deal if you don't have it handy. They are the only game in town for my setup anyway.
Posted By: DemonDust
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/02/15 08:16 PM
Wow this thread really blew up! Lots of great info, thanks guys
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/02/15 11:25 PM
i'll be workin on the car tomorrow. i'll see what I can do. might find pics on their site or ebay.
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/03/15 06:57 AM
found some pics on ebay. same as what I have.
4 hole base also offered.
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/03/15 06:59 AM
here's the base I have.
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/03/15 07:00 AM
here's the 4 hole base.
Posted By: Tig
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/03/15 02:56 PM
Sorry to hijack, but does anyone have pics of motors using filters on tunnel rams and dominator carbs?
Posted By: quickd100
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/03/15 04:30 PM
Last summer I had a close to stock 440 mag on the dyno, 8.9-1 compression. I asked the owner to bring some 91 octane and later found out the fuel he brought was 102-103 octane so the numbers were down from what they would have been. With no aircleaner or filter it made 386.3hp, with the factory dual snorkel in place it made 362.9hp. Just flipping the aircleaner lid upside down netted 380.9hp.
On my truck I run a home made ram air system drawing air from the headlite sockets. I have a K&N filter in it ahead of the baseplate. I installed an electric manometer to take pressure readings above and in front of the carbs. Tooling around town at about 25-30mph produced a negative number of -.313psi, at 130mph on my semi-private test facility it generated a number of +.378psi. I'll keep the filter in place on the street and on the track.Dave
Posted By: jcc
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/03/15 09:45 PM
That is interesting, and with numbers
, any pics of the ram air system?
Posted By: 1964superstock
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/03/15 09:54 PM
Quote:
here's the base I have.
Where can you but this air filter base? Manufacture name, part number?
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/04/15 01:04 AM
R2C Performance products or ebay. they also offer oval air cleaners. they cater to circle track, but have some drag race products.
Posted By: mopar65
Re: Air filters on race cars?? *DELETED* - 01/04/15 01:29 AM
Post deleted by mopar65
Posted By: Thumperdart
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/04/15 01:35 AM
Quote:
R2C Performance products or ebay. they also offer oval air cleaners. they cater to circle track, but have some drag race products.
In my warped mind that seems like a crazy transition up to the carb...........almost a wall. My Wix came in at Napa and I asked my buddy if it was the race version and he said "Must be because you can see right through it............
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/04/15 02:33 AM
yes, they recommend the bubble top lid with that base.
Posted By: Thumperdart
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/04/15 06:01 PM
Gotcha...........makes sense that the lid would need to be profiled for continuous/clean flow.
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/04/15 06:56 PM
moroso bubble lid also works well. its what I have on the dominator.
Posted By: RATPATROL
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/04/15 07:24 PM
heres what I have on my dual carb setup, edelbrock modified base
Posted By: mopar65
Re: Air filters on race cars?? *DELETED* - 01/04/15 10:22 PM
Post deleted by mopar65
Posted By: mopar65
Re: Air filters on race cars?? *DELETED* - 01/04/15 10:47 PM
Post deleted by mopar65
Posted By: RATPATROL
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/04/15 11:16 PM
edelbrock air cleaner comes with k&n filter, not sure on filter size cars in storage sorry.
Posted By: Thumperdart
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/05/15 03:29 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The trick seems to be to run enough filter surface area not to measurably restrict.
For example, Holley ran a test in 1971 of air flow through a carb.
No air cleaner 713 cfm
Chevy hi-perf open element cleaner 675 cfm
Same as above but with two filter elements stacked 713 cfm.
They didn't publish the hights, but the point is once they had enough area, the restriction was the carb. (Mike Urich and Bill Fisher Holley Carburetors & Manifolds 1987 edition page 71)
Another thing to consider along the line of what Mr P was describing is the impact on the bowl vents. With Holley type carbs the vent could be placed into a pressure stream, or in a weird turbulent area and that can mess up the fuel curve. A ton of ideas on modifying Bowl Vents shared at Racing Fuel Systems.
Been installing an 11/32 brass sleeve over the bowl vents and I drill 4 holes in em and they work. No more pulling fuel up the tubes and the top of the carb`s cleaner. They work for those situations like mine were the lid touches the scoop or is real close.........
hey Dom don't know if you would be interested in this air filter. i found it while doing research on some air filters for my tunnel ram. it says you don't need a base or air filter lid with this one. its said its for people that don't have a lot of under hood room.
http://www.r2cperformance.com/holley-dominator-air-filters.aspx
Thankxxx man and cool stuff............. I got a Wix racing 3 1/2" air filter and after a few tweeks, the hood fits tight w/no lid just the rubber on the filter against scoop so we`ll see how it runs and how/if the WB see a difference good or bad.
Posted By: WadeMetzinger
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/05/15 06:04 AM
Here my new UNI.
Posted By: joes68340s
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/05/15 06:15 PM
I just ran a tnt this sat at Sac. I don't normally run an air cleaner but the one I have and do run is just a Moroso 14 inch with a K/N 4 inch filter. I threw it on and mph went up almost .8 mph I need more fuel and the motor was still pulling through the traps. I plan to find out how much more fuel I can throw at it and run the filter.
Posted By: BradH
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/05/15 07:02 PM
Quote:
Not sure if running a smaller (more restrictive) filter setup on the street, and switching out to something more of a "bird and rock catcher" screen only at the track, is a viable approach... or if that's simply fooling myself.
1. 
... 'cuz I was hoping for a comment or two in response to my last paragraph.
2. Where can flow test results for the Wix racing filters found? All I've noticed is the parts listings on Summit, et al, simply say "flow 1000+ CFM"... but it's the same "spec" regardless of size. 
Posted By: BradH
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/05/15 08:27 PM
Quote:
2. Where can flow test results for the Wix racing filters found? All I've noticed is the parts listings on Summit, et al, simply say "flow 1000+ CFM"... but it's the same "spec" regardless of size.
Just came across this thread on another forum: http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=15773
Even though it's from 2003, the data is still valid IMO and the preface by the poster on the test methodology is also interesting.
Posted By: 68 HEMI GTS
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/05/15 09:54 PM
i run the K&N extreem's on my dart. Runs exactly the same ET with or without them so there always on. i clean the tops about 3x more often then the round element. you can defiantly tell it pulls all the air from the top.
Posted By: jcc
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/05/15 11:49 PM
So this chart is only measuring air thru a filter only no other in line restrictions? I would have not guessed a 25% increase in filter area (14x3 to 14x4) would only gain a much less percentage of air flow. Actually i would have guessed more, thinking the media mounting ends would disrupt air flow, and a taller filter would have less turbulence.
Posted By: Thumperdart
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/06/15 12:09 AM
Quote:
Quote:
2. Where can flow test results for the Wix racing filters found? All I've noticed is the parts listings on Summit, et al, simply say "flow 1000+ CFM"... but it's the same "spec" regardless of size.
Just came across this thread on another forum: http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=15773
Even though it's from 2003, the data is still valid IMO and the preface by the poster on the test methodology is also interesting.
First off, THIS is the reason I joined Moparts and a select few sites because of valuable info like this post is getting not squabbling bs like grade school kids in the sand box..............I agree about the 1000+ cfm in different sizes and would like closer more accurate data than that. Think I`ll call em............. 
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/06/15 12:18 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
2. Where can flow test results for the Wix racing filters found? All I've noticed is the parts listings on Summit, et al, simply say "flow 1000+ CFM"... but it's the same "spec" regardless of size.
Just came across this thread on another forum: http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=15773
Even though it's from 2003, the data is still valid IMO and the preface by the poster on the test methodology is also interesting.
First off, THIS is the reason I joined Moparts and a select few sites because of valuable info like this post is getting not squabbling bs like grade school kids in the sand box..............I agree about the 1000+ cfm in different sizes and would like closer more accurate data than that. Think I`ll call em.............
I think if you call them your gonna get some bogus
number.. IF they even know... you would be talking
to a salesman... I agree.. I would have figured a
larger difference from a 3" to 4"... something just
doesnt sound right
Posted By: AndyF
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/06/15 02:37 AM
That is a good chart, I haven't seen it before.
I've always used a 14x4 as the minimum air cleaner size for a performance engine. I use the 14x6 K&N for dyno testing. The 14x6 should flow about 1600 cfm on that guys test setup since it is double the area of the 14x3.
Posted By: Moparmal
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/06/15 04:01 AM
14x3 = 131.94sq" filtering area
14x4 = 175.92sq"
The 14x3 has 3/4. (75%) of the surface area of the 14x4
Unless its made out of a different material, or is thicker...I cant see how the 14x4 only flows 5.4 %. more!
907/860 x 100/1 = 105.4%.
Posted By: AndyF
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/06/15 04:32 AM
Yes, it calls into question the test method and/or the filters used. The airflow should increase roughly the same as the area so one of those numbers is wrong.
Posted By: jcc
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/06/15 04:35 AM
What if the measurement/test was thru say 1000cfm carb or something else that gave an upper limit to the flow?
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/06/15 04:44 AM
Quote:
What if the measurement/test was thru say 1000cfm carb or something else that gave an upper limit to the flow?
If thats the case then a lot of the data might be invalid ..
who is to say that choke point didnt hold back flow
on some of the 3" stuff
Posted By: Moparmal
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/06/15 09:01 AM
If people want to use the K&N formula - then this s how u calculate the surface area of a round filter.
Its circumference x height - Plug in the diameter into this calculator and itll tell you the circ.
Then x by height -
http://www.csgnetwork.com/circle_sphere_area_calculator.html
Posted By: BradH
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/06/15 03:49 PM
Quote:
If people want to use the K&N formula - then this s how u calculate the surface area of a round filter.
Its circumference x height - Plug in the diameter into this calculator and itll tell you the circ.
Then x by height -
http://www.csgnetwork.com/circle_sphere_area_calculator.html
David Vizard says you need to adjust the height of the filter to account for the top & bottom molding and edge effects. So, your 3" filter calc really should be more like 2-3/4" (or whatever a particular filter measures) when you're trying to come up w/ effective surface area.
Also, for those who question the data I found and posted from tests performed elsewhere, no problem. But if you feel the need to pi$$ on the results, you should probably dig up your own data or -- even better -- conduct your own tests to (in)validate it.
At least I took the time to try and find something more than just a bunch of opinions on the subject.
Posted By: Thumperdart
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/06/15 05:34 PM
Quote:
Quote:
If people want to use the K&N formula - then this s how u calculate the surface area of a round filter.
Its circumference x height - Plug in the diameter into this calculator and itll tell you the circ.
Then x by height -
http://www.csgnetwork.com/circle_sphere_area_calculator.html
David Vizard says you need to adjust the height of the filter to account for the top & bottom molding and edge effects. So, your 3" filter calc really should be more like 2-3/4" (or whatever a particular filter measures) when you're trying to come up w/ effective surface area.
Also, for those who question the data I found and posted from tests performed elsewhere, no problem. But if you feel the need to pi$$ on the results, you should probably dig up your own data or -- even better -- conduct your own tests to (in)validate it.
At least I took the time to try and find something more than just a bunch of opinions on the subject.
Hey Brad........."what" you really need to eat a Snickers........"why" because you`re not yourself when you don`t........ and, I used to wake up EVERY single day pissed off and ready to kill but I found internal peace and my Chi is looken better also. CHILL..........you have great info and I APPRECIATE IT BRAD................. 
Posted By: BradH
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/06/15 06:24 PM
Quote:
..."what" you really need to eat a Snickers........"why" because you`re not yourself when you don`t........
I'll have to settle for a blueberry muffin and a large hot chocolate. It's a little snowy here today and the forecast for the rest of the week isn't showing much break in the temp, either.
Posted By: Thumperdart
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/06/15 06:34 PM
I`m eating oatmeal in a tee shirt on the patio...........
Posted By: AndyF
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/06/15 08:14 PM
Air filters are super expensive to test since it requires a giant flow bench. A 14x6 K&N probably flows 2000 cfm at a reasonable depression so it would require a monster flow bench to test. Not too many people have access to that type of equipment.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/06/15 08:53 PM
Quote:
Air filters are super expensive to test since it requires a giant flow bench. A 14x6 K&N probably flows 2000 cfm at a reasonable depression so it would require a monster flow bench to test. Not too many people have access to that type of equipment.
Thats the thing... when I was working I used a bench
that had either a 20hp or it might have been a 35hp
electric motor to drive the bench... I have no idea
what it could move at max(air flow) but it sure did
get noisy... it was either a 6" or 8" throat that
we would mount the filter housing on(different fixtures)
for all the different shapes and sizes
Posted By: Moparmal
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/07/15 12:01 PM
Quote:
Quote:
If people want to use the K&N formula - then this s how u calculate the surface area of a round filter.
Its circumference x height - Plug in the diameter into this calculator and itll tell you the circ.
Then x by height -
http://www.csgnetwork.com/circle_sphere_area_calculator.html
David Vizard says you need to adjust the height of the filter to account for the top & bottom molding and edge effects. So, your 3" filter calc really should be more like 2-3/4" (or whatever a particular filter measures) when you're trying to come up w/ effective surface area.
Also, for those who question the data I found and posted from tests performed elsewhere, no problem. But if you feel the need to pi$$ on the results, you should probably dig up your own data or -- even better -- conduct your own tests to (in)validate it.
At least I took the time to try and find something more than just a bunch of opinions on the subject.
Yes...the K&N site also says that some compensation for the lid and base lips along with the filter band needs to be taken into account - but the figures I provided are not too far off to be of use.
As far as pissing on your tables.....I'll be happy to refrain from plagueing this thread with basic Math any further......feel free to keep burning any books you dont agree with........
Posted By: BradH
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/07/15 05:22 PM
The "basic math" is knowing what the CFM capability of a given area of filter material is at a specified test pressure.
Then you get to factor in all of the other constraints (choke points, capacity limitations, etc.) for the test equipment used when comparing the same amount of filter area across different brands / types.
Questioning the results when inconsistencies between what you'd expect to see vs. actual results is reasonable and understood. Calling someone else's test data bogus when you yourself have nothing to show that proves otherwise is just pissin' on it.
I don't burn books, but I put a lot less value in unverified opinions over quantifiable test data, even if the methodology may not be ideal. At least that's a starting point for refining the test approach, especially when those inconsistencies show up.
G'day mate... and don't let the salties get ya'!
Posted By: Moparmal
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/07/15 09:06 PM
So now Im just struggling to see where I called your data bogus?
Posted By: BradH
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/07/15 09:25 PM
Quote:
So now Im just struggling to see where I called your data bogus?
You specifically may not have, but your response triggered a defensive reaction by me where I felt the need to make a general comment about the way some others reacted to my posting of data.
Eh...
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/07/15 09:38 PM
Quote:
So now Im just struggling to see where I called your data bogus?
He is referring to what I wrote..." COULD BE bogus"
based on what you mentioned .. but since we dont know
how the test was performed its just a speculation
Posted By: Moparmal
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/07/15 11:14 PM
Quote:
Quote:
So now Im just struggling to see where I called your data bogus?
You specifically may not have, but your response triggered a defensive reaction by me where I felt the need to make a general comment about the way some others reacted to my posting of data.
Eh...
Next time aim straight.......or eat two snickers......:p
Fwiw. I'm not making a call on that data table one way or the other.....too many unknowns.
Posted By: AndyF
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/08/15 02:08 AM
I appreciate the fact that you took the time to find some data and post it. That is cool and it is way more than a lot of people do in these threads. However, I will say that the 4" data doesn't make much sense when compared to the 3" data. The 4" flow rates should be 33% greater than the 3" flow rates. More than 33% if you take into account the edge effect.
Based on other numbers I've seen I think the 4" data in the table is wrong. A 14x4 filter should flow around 1200 cfm. Of course, flow depends on pressure drop so to be precise someone needs to say what pressure drop they are willing to live with and then measure flow at that drop. I don't know what K&N uses as a std pressure drop for filter testing but it is probably fairly low.
Posted By: BradH
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/08/15 02:56 AM
Andy - I don't disagree. That data I referenced didn't include all the necessary background to fully understand (as I phrased it above) "... all of the other constraints (choke points, capacity limitations, etc.) for the test equipment used when comparing the same amount of filter area across different brands / types."
For example, what if all those tests were based on how much air someone could pull through a 1.56" v x 1.75" throttle race-type 4150 that might dry-flow 925 CFM at the same test pressure? Then it wouldn't be a test of the max flow capabilities for each 3" vs. 4" filter element, and, instead, how many CFM each filter reduced the carb's peak flow capabilities.
Assuming EVERY filter is going to result in at least some amount of restriction, then the smaller delta between the 3" and 4" versions of the same filter types might be explained because the 4" filters aren't being tested to their limits, whereas some of the 3" might be getting right up to their full flow capabilities.
Regardless, my intent was simply to add more data, unfortunately w/o being able to explain the whole test setup.
Posted By: BradH
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/08/15 02:59 AM
Quote:
Next time aim straight.......or eat two snickers......:p
Sawed-off 12-gauge shotguns aren't exactly known for pinpoint accuracy.
TWO Snickers??? Gawd, my blood sugar level would go into 
; besides, I like Milky Ways better.
Posted By: Thumperdart
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/08/15 03:03 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Next time aim straight.......or eat two snickers......:p
Sawed-off 12-gauge shotguns aren't exactly known for pinpoint accuracy.
TWO Snickers??? Gawd, my blood sugar level would go into ; besides, I like Milky Ways better.
Go play your drums damit. I`m off now to go , , , 
and trust me, it helps a LOT in the aggression dept. after 4 hours of bashin although we play a few ballads......
Posted By: Moparmal
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/08/15 03:29 AM
Quote:
Sawed-off 12-gauge shotguns aren't exactly known for pinpoint accuracy. :
Yeah...but they talk louder to a crowd......
Posted By: roadhazard
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/08/15 03:36 AM
I've been sitting back and following this thread. Really don't have much to add other than my set up.
Y'all talkin over my head with the flow stuff
Never did make a pass without the filter. Don't know why, just figured there were other area's of the car that needed more attention
It is on the "To Do" list if I can ever get back out
14 x 5 K&N with the Extreme top snuggled in an Aero scoop.
I figured it should flow enough and send less turbulent air to the carb
Posted By: roadhazard
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/08/15 03:39 AM
Home made base seals to bottom of hood....
Posted By: roadhazard
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/08/15 03:41 AM
K&N Stub Stack holds the base to the carb
Posted By: dodge340dart
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/08/15 03:48 AM
Here are some results I have found on a slant six (I know not a race engine) but they are interesting. All tests were on a Mustang Chassis Dyno.
With the 1-bbl (1920 Holley) carburetor:
factory OEM filter in factory air cleaner housing
Max Torque : 132.558lb-ft
Max Horsepower: 83.177hp
Avg Torque : 122.779lb-ft
Avg Horsepower: 76.279hp
K&N filter in factory air cleaner housing
Max Torque : 134.171lb-ft
Max Horsepower: 83.767hp
Avg Torque : 122.590lb-ft
Avg Horsepower: 79.365hp
Improvement over baseline
Max Torque: 1.583lb-ft
Max Horsepower: 0.590hp
Avg Torque: (-0.189)lb-ft
Avg Horsepower: 3.086hp
Baseplate only (no filter)
Max Torque : 132.827lb-ft
Max Horsepower: 84.484hp
Avg Torque : 122.213lb-ft
Avg Horsepower: 79.088hp
Improvement over baseline
Max Torque: 0.269b-ft
Max Horsepower: 1.307hp
Avg Torque: (-0.566)lb-ft
Avg Horsepower: 2.809hp
I will get the data together for the 2-bbl and the 4-bbl carbs/filters and post it as well.
Chris
Posted By: dodge340dart
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/08/15 03:56 AM
Here are the results from the slant six on the Mustang Chassis Dyno.
These results are with a 2-bbl (Carter BBD)
factory air filter and Super-Six air cleaner housing
Max Torque : 140.414lb-ft
Max Horsepower: 93.337hp
Avg Torque : 131.983lb-ft
Avg Horsepower: 88.101hp
K&N air filter and Super-Six air cleaner housing
Max Torque : 142.708lb-ft
Max Horsepower: 95.763hp
Avg Torque : 135.147lb-ft
Avg Horsepower: 90.406hp
Baseplate only
Max Torque : 150.937lb-ft
Max Horsepower: 103.493hp
Avg Torque : 143.384lb-ft
Avg Horsepower: 96.418hp
Let me find the 4bbl data on the same slant.
Chris
Posted By: dodge340dart
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/08/15 04:05 AM
The slant six with a 390 Holley 4-bbl.
14"x2" open element filter/housing (WIX)
Max Torque : 155.596lb-ft
Max Horsepower: 113.730hp
Avg Torque : 150.006lb-ft
Avg Horsepower: 103.531hp
14"x3" open element filter/housing (WIX)
Max Torque : 156.068lb-ft
Max Horsepower: 113.584hp
Avg Torque : 150.271lb-ft
Avg Horsepower: 103.686hp
14"x3" open element filter/housing (K&N)
Max Torque : 154.269lb-ft
Max Horsepower: 112.463hp
Avg Torque : 148.416lb-ft
Avg Horsepower: 102.434hp
14" baseplate only
Max Torque : 158.393lb-ft
Max Horsepower: 115.839hp
Avg Torque : 152.777lb-ft
Avg Horsepower: 105.826hp
A run from the above test:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlkXawoGFLoChris
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/08/15 04:21 AM
On all 3 engine set ups it was just the filter change,
no jet work.. am I correct.. were you running a A/F
meter
Posted By: jcc
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/08/15 04:27 AM
The heck with the filters, I'm getting a 390 Holley for my slant six
Thanks for the info
Back to the confusing chart, I think it was made with a carb or other restriction (only logical explanation with the data we have), and that in some cases makes some sense, because for instance, whats the point of doubling(?) a filter's area, if the gain is very small because of the limits of the carb? Besides everyone pretty much agrees we already know doubling a filters area (same), will double airflow.
Posted By: dodge340dart
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/08/15 04:31 AM
You are correct, there were no changes other than changing the air filter element. I don't have the A/F numbers with me, they are at the office, but they were monitored on each run. I remember that the numbers leaned out just a little from the first test of each series to the baseplate only runs. If I remember the runs ranged from about 12.3:1 to 12.85:1 as the runs progressed. I will have to see if I can dig up the numbers tomorrow.
Chris
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/08/15 04:50 AM
Quote:
You are correct, there were no changes other than changing the air filter element. I don't have the A/F numbers with me, they are at the office, but they were monitored on each run. I remember that the numbers leaned out just a little from the first test of each series to the baseplate only runs. If I remember the runs ranged from about 12.3:1 to 12.85:1 as the runs progressed. I will have to see if I can dig up the numbers tomorrow.
Chris
The A/F numbers are as I would expect
Posted By: Crizila
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/08/15 05:06 AM
Quote:
K&N Stub Stack holds the base to the carb
Really nice set up.
Posted By: Thumperdart
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/08/15 05:07 PM
Quote:
K&N Stub Stack holds the base to the carb
I`d bet you`d be faster w/out the stub stack............or not, hard to say but something to try. Did you get blocks yet? If not just order the QF billet ones and be done w/it.
Posted By: roadhazard
Re: Air filters on race cars?? - 01/08/15 06:45 PM
Quote:
Quote:
K&N Stub Stack holds the base to the carb
Really nice set up.
Thanks
I have some 4779-2 blocks but it's sooooo cold here I'm afraid to pick up a wrench
