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Re: E-85 fuel
[Re: 440Jim]
#1709630
12/14/14 01:48 AM
12/14/14 01:48 AM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 240
Plano, Texas
68cuda440
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 240
Plano, Texas
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440 w/ Ross forged flat top pistons, zero deck. 4.35" bore, 3.75" stroke, 6.76" Eagle rods. Aluminum Eddy RPM heads, 75cc chambers polished. With 0.039" head gasket it all calculates to about 11.25:1. Cam is Ultradyne flat tappet solid. Lash 0.016" hot. Cam card picture attached. I used a degree wheel and verified, cam is installed per the card. Intake is Mopar P3690982 converted to port EFI (Weiand six pack tunnel ram).
With iron heads, eddy RPM intake, and a carb at just over 10:1 I was able to run on 93 octane fuel.
Everything I have read so far says I will probably have to run higher octane now. My fuel system can easily handle the flow requirements for E-85, the only thing I would have to do is up the injector sizing.
The way I see it is I have these options:
1) Race gas / race gas blend / or some sort of octane boost
2) E-85
3) Bigger cam
4) Thicker head gasket
Anyone profess to know enough about this to know for sure that I can not run pump gas with this engine? There is a gas station 1 mile from my house that has E-85, but, if I drive any great distance it may be hard to always find it. Running cooler would be a nice benefit, it does get quite hot here in Texas in the summer. I am tempted to go a little bigger on the cam as it is, the springs installed are good to about 0.600". I would be interested in opinions regarding the correct cam sizing to match this intake. Car is manual transmission, so stall speed is not going to be an issue. Rear axle is 3.90 and the car is a '68 Barracuda.
-Michael
Last edited by 68cuda440; 12/14/14 01:55 AM.
Michael
1968 Barracuda Notchback Coupe
440 EFI 6-pack, T56 Magnum 6-spd
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Re: E-85 fuel
[Re: 68cuda440]
#1709631
12/14/14 01:49 AM
12/14/14 01:49 AM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 240
Plano, Texas
68cuda440
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 240
Plano, Texas
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Intake manifold...
-Michael
Michael
1968 Barracuda Notchback Coupe
440 EFI 6-pack, T56 Magnum 6-spd
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Re: E-85 fuel
[Re: 68cuda440]
#1709632
12/14/14 01:53 AM
12/14/14 01:53 AM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
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Your chambers are ALOT more efficient than the iron heads were for sure. But it will still be on the edge with pump IMO. ANother thing I found out in my old BB the detonation got worse when I went from auto to manual.
Last edited by 72Swinger; 12/14/14 01:55 AM.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: E-85 fuel
[Re: 68cuda440]
#1709635
12/14/14 02:08 AM
12/14/14 02:08 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
440 w/ Ross forged flat top pistons, zero deck. 4.35" bore, 3.75" stroke, 6.76" Eagle rods. Aluminum Eddy RPM heads, 75cc chambers polished. With 0.039" head gasket it all calculates to about 11.25:1. Cam is Ultradyne flat tappet solid. Lash 0.016" hot. Cam card picture attached. I used a degree wheel and verified, cam is installed per the card. Intake is Mopar P3690982 converted to port EFI (Weiand six pack tunnel ram).
With iron heads, eddy RPM intake, and a carb at just over 10:1 I was able to run on 93 octane fuel.
Everything I have read so far says I will probably have to run higher octane now. My fuel system can easily handle the flow requirements for E-85, the only thing I would have to do is up the injector sizing.
The way I see it is I have these options:
1) Race gas / race gas blend / or some sort of octane boost
2) E-85
3) Bigger cam
4) Thicker head gasket
Anyone profess to know enough about this to know for sure that I can not run pump gas with this engine? There is a gas station 1 mile from my house that has E-85, but, if I drive any great distance it may be hard to always find it. Running cooler would be a nice benefit, it does get quite hot here in Texas in the summer. I am tempted to go a little bigger on the cam as it is, the springs installed are good to about 0.600". I would be interested in opinions regarding the correct cam sizing to match this intake. Car is manual transmission, so stall speed is not going to be an issue. Rear axle is 3.90 and the car is a '68 Barracuda.
-Michael
I'm running higher compression than you are on my
SB with iron heads at the moment with a 260/270 @ 50
cam... on the street I run 87 octane.... mine is 10.4
EDIT
I see you say its 11.2... with 93 and alum heads
I'd run it... E-85 would do it easy but its only E-85
during the summer months
Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 12/14/14 02:21 AM.
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Re: E-85 fuel
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1709636
12/14/14 02:18 AM
12/14/14 02:18 AM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 240
Plano, Texas
68cuda440
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 240
Plano, Texas
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Quote:
I'm running higher compression than you are on my
SB with iron heads at the moment with a 260/270 @ 50
cam... on the street I run 87 octane.... mine is 10.4
Sorry boss, don't understand what you mean by 10.4?
With 260 @ 50 you definitely have a larger cam and your intake closes later than mine and bleeds off some pressure at the lower RPMs. I can't imagine driving the car in your signature on the street, that must be interesting.
-Michael
Last edited by 68cuda440; 12/14/14 02:34 AM.
Michael
1968 Barracuda Notchback Coupe
440 EFI 6-pack, T56 Magnum 6-spd
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Re: E-85 fuel
[Re: 68cuda440]
#1709637
12/14/14 02:24 AM
12/14/14 02:24 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Quote:
I'm running higher compression than you are on my
SB with iron heads at the moment with a 260/270 @ 50
cam... on the street I run 87 octane.... mine is 10.4
Sorry boss, don't understand what you mean by 10.4?
With 260 @ 50 you definitely have a larger cam and you intake closes later than mine and bleeds off some pressure at the lower RPMs. I can't imagine driving the car in your signature on the street, that must be interesting.
-Michael
No not that car... my Rampage is 10.4 compression
with iron heads
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Re: E-85 fuel
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1709638
12/14/14 02:32 AM
12/14/14 02:32 AM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 240
Plano, Texas
68cuda440
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 240
Plano, Texas
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Quote:
No not that car... my Rampage is 10.4 compression
with iron heads
Wow, you had me going there... and in the back of my mind I was thinking "when did they ever make a W9 in iron, OK... don't know everything, maybe they did."
There is so much information and misinformation out there on this topic. I read one place where they say you can go up 1 full point when going from iron to alum w/ no drawback, then I read that DCR is the key, and it makes no difference if the head is iron or not. Then there are folks swearing they run higher than the "recommended" 8.3 DRC because they have better heads and flat top pistons with good quench. The number of opinions on the topic seems infinite. And then add in whose DCR calculation method is correct, and what number to actual use, and, then, of course if it is a solid lifter cam it is different and lash comes into play. Of course altitude here is 675 feet above sea level... that matters also. Just in case... car is painted dark green.
-Michael
Last edited by 68cuda440; 12/14/14 02:35 AM.
Michael
1968 Barracuda Notchback Coupe
440 EFI 6-pack, T56 Magnum 6-spd
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Re: E-85 fuel
[Re: 68cuda440]
#1709639
12/14/14 02:47 AM
12/14/14 02:47 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Quote:
No not that car... my Rampage is 10.4 compression
with iron heads
Wow, you had me going there... and in the back of my mind I was thinking "when did they ever make a W9 in iron, OK... don't know everything, maybe they did."
There is so much information and misinformation out there on this topic. I read one place where they say you can go up 1 full point when going from iron to alum w/ no drawback, then I read that DCR is the key, and it makes no difference if the head is iron or not. Then there are folks swearing they run higher than the "recommended" 8.3 DRC because they have better heads and flat top pistons with good quench. The number of opinions on the topic seems infinite. And then add in whose DCR calculation method is correct, and what number to actual use, and, then, of course if it is a solid lifter cam it is different and lash comes into play. Of course altitude here is 675 feet above sea level... that matters also. Just in case... car is painted dark green.
-Michael
Well I agree with the full point of comp with alum
heads.. also your altitude is low and one other thing..
if you keep the engine cooler it helps also... JMO
but 11.25 and alum head 625 altitude on 93.. I'd run it
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Re: E-85 fuel
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1709640
12/15/14 11:40 PM
12/15/14 11:40 PM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,267
North, Alabama
D-50
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,267
North, Alabama
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I have only run 93 octane in my small block and I have had no problems so far. It is 10.9 com. with aluminum heads. Cam is 255/266 @.050. Cranking cylinder pressure is 190-200.
1.33 60 ft,6.21 at 110.59 in the 1/8, pump gas small block,2950lbs,drag radials,mufflers and driven to track ...
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Re: E-85 fuel
[Re: Steve Reynolds]
#1709642
12/17/14 07:02 AM
12/17/14 07:02 AM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 208
Norrland, Sweden
Swedcharger67
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 208
Norrland, Sweden
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I run what I have with E85, and just keep an eye on things. Purchasing new parts I tend to choose those saying themselves to be E85-compatible. Smaller bits and pieces used in my home-built fuel system I drop one identical part in a glass jar with E85 and just leave it there for the next few years, to see if anything is affected. For getting the correct jetting I recommend you to have a look at the Innovate MTX-L or corresponding...you won't regret it. For shooting in the dark you can use +30% flow as guideline... 
Martin, 67 Charger, 512 cui, E85, MegaSquirt MS3X sequential ignition & injection
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Re: E-85 fuel
[Re: ajcasini]
#1709645
12/17/14 02:20 PM
12/17/14 02:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
Steve to make it happy on e85 you would need:
Boosters
Metering Blocks
Air Bleed Change
Needle and seat change
Squirter change
Possibly floats if has plastic or brass.
just make it easy and contact thie guy ^ 
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Re: E-85 fuel
[Re: Quicktree]
#1709646
12/17/14 02:25 PM
12/17/14 02:25 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Quote:
Steve to make it happy on e85 you would need:
Boosters
Metering Blocks
Air Bleed Change
Needle and seat change
Squirter change
Possibly floats if has plastic or brass.
just make it easy and contact thie guy ^
Steve.. just send your carb to AJ and let him fix it
up... it will save you a lot of time... and maybe a engine
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