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Re: How Fast before Frame Connectors are needed ?
[Re: domingo]
#1695750
11/30/14 08:33 AM
11/30/14 08:33 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,081
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,081
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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Another thought on when they are needed. Look at the math for a basically modified street car on stickys that hooks, even running 14.0s.
3.91 gears, 3,000 stall converter, mild 440 ,450 ft lbs torque at stall speed, no spin.
Torque x converter torque multiplication, times trans ratio times rear gear for the torque at the hit.
450 x 2 = 900 x 2.45 first ratio =2205 ft lbs x 3.91 rear gear = 8621 ft lbs of torque working to hurt your chassis! Now take the spring front segment length to figure force on the spring hangers.
8621 divided by 20 inch times 12 inch = 5173 ft lbs load, divided by two hangers, or 2586 lbs of force on each hanger.
It may only last the first two feet, but that is where max torque to the tires will be.
8.582, 160.18 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: How Fast before Frame Connectors are needed ?
[Re: ProSport]
#1695752
11/30/14 01:12 PM
11/30/14 01:12 PM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 959
france
jose jones
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 959
france
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Quote:
After reading this thread I'm starting to realize my Mopar Performance bolt-in frame connectors are useless. 
Would they be ok if I have a friend weld them in, or do they really need to come up through the floor?
The Mopar Performance frame connectors work just fine, throw away the bolts and weld them in place they will stiffen the frame
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Re: How Fast before Frame Connectors are needed ?
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#1695753
11/30/14 09:53 PM
11/30/14 09:53 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
StealthWedge67
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
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Quote:
Quote:
Ok sounds good, I will get them welded on each end.
I've been saying all along that this particular car will not have a cage in it but I'm starting to think a 6 point bar might from turning into a pretzel as the motor will be easily capable of running 10's if I ever take it to a track. But the rear seat needs to be accessible.....decisions decisions.
On a street car, to have rear seat access with a roll bar, at least from the pass side, run a diagonal bar from high on the pass side to low on the driver side, then install a bar behind the drivers seat from main hoop to diagonal bar. This supports the hoop side to side, gives a seat bar and a place to mount harness and also leaves a large opening on pass side to get in back seat..........just watch your head......LOL!!! I have also gone from the middle of hoop straight down to top of trans tunnel and then added seat bar behind driver. This leaves the whole pass side area open to get in back
Monte
These are great ideas for street guys, Monte. I recently saw a bar in a chevelle that had the standard cross-bar behind the seats, but had a swing out section in it. was hinged mid-span, and swung forward, locking out a few inches inside the main hoop on the passenger side. I asked the guy if it passes NHRA, and he said "probobly not, but I've had never had it questioned at tech before".
????
LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready - 11.07 @ 120
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Re: How Fast before Frame Connectors are needed ?
[Re: B G Racing]
#1695754
12/01/14 01:27 AM
12/01/14 01:27 AM
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 68
USA MO
cdoublejj
member
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member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 68
USA MO
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Quote:
They can be installed in a variety of ways as not to cut,weld or modify the floor pan. 
So qualms/issues with US Car Tool product then? So far I have been reading good things about them.
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Re: How Fast before Frame Connectors are needed ?
[Re: ]
#1695756
12/01/14 02:37 AM
12/01/14 02:37 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,114
Massillon, Ohio
cudatom
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,114
Massillon, Ohio
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Raced my Cuda regularly back in the early 80's. Wasnt real fast ran 12.80's. Drove it to the track and back. I majorly twisted the car running even that slow. Buckled one 1/4, up into the roof. I'm w/everyone else here. Put them on. It will save the car.
Ok
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Re: How Fast before Frame Connectors are needed ?
[Re: cdoublejj]
#1695765
12/05/14 03:54 AM
12/05/14 03:54 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,668
Mi,U.S.A.
mike s
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,668
Mi,U.S.A.
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Every semi serious (12 sec) street car should have connectors and all the support items you can add. I didn't see anyone mentioning the 8-10 inch fold that appears above the rear wheels in the middle of the quarter when you don't.
Leave the gun.......take the Cannoli's....Mike
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Re: How Fast before Frame Connectors are needed ?
[Re: mike s]
#1695766
12/05/14 03:22 PM
12/05/14 03:22 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,271
Vista, California
67Satty
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,271
Vista, California
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My mid-12 second car must be an underachiever because after 80 or so runs on slicks with no subframe connectors and 1.68-1.70 60 foot times, I haven't seen any signs of tweaking or damage yet.  But I do want to add them to see if they will improve my 60 foot times or ETs. Anyone have any before and after data regarding that? Do the F.A.S.T. cars run subframe connectors?
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Re: How Fast before Frame Connectors are needed ?
[Re: gregsdart]
#1695769
12/05/14 05:55 PM
12/05/14 05:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,699
Newport, Mi
Evil Spirit
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,699
Newport, Mi
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Quote:
Another thought on when they are needed. Look at the math for a basically modified street car on stickys that hooks, even running 14.0s.
3.91 gears, 3,000 stall converter, mild 440 ,450 ft lbs torque at stall speed, no spin.
Torque x converter torque multiplication, times trans ratio times rear gear for the torque at the hit.
450 x 2 = 900 x 2.45 first ratio =2205 ft lbs x 3.91 rear gear = 8621 ft lbs of torque working to hurt your chassis! Now take the spring front segment length to figure force on the spring hangers.
8621 divided by 20 inch times 12 inch = 5173 ft lbs load, divided by two hangers, or 2586 lbs of force on each hanger.
It may only last the first two feet, but that is where max torque to the tires will be.
Pretty safe bet that if you could measure the loads at the front spring hangers your numbers would be way off - the right side would be much higher than the left due to torque trying to rotate the housing and pick the right tire up.
--------------------------------------------------
And food for thought - if frame connectors are so effective, why didn't the factory use them instead of torque boxes that tie the sub-frames to the rocker boxes? You see a lot of factory installed (on all makes) torque boxes on high H/P cars and convertibles, but rarely (if ever) do you see factory installed sub-frame connectors. Personally I don't bother with sub-frame connectors unless I also tie the rockers in too. 
Free advice and worth every penny...
Factory trained Slinky rewinder.........
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