|
Re: Why do guys race small blocks?
[Re: 1320Dart]
#1692111
10/31/14 06:03 PM
10/31/14 06:03 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,491
Minnesota
Hemi_Joel
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,491
Minnesota
|
Quote:
Don't get me wrong. I'm a die hard BB guy. I'm hot well versed in the SB area. So I'm going to ask a dumb question here.....
So what is this W8 thing all about. I'm just curious 
Further, (revealing my ignorance of things that are not hemis) what is an r5p7? Is that a real small block mopar based engine, or a unique NASCAR creation? I looked at some pics online, and obviously the heads are not small block Mopar. How about the rest of it? 
[img]http://i.imgur.com/boeexFms.jpg[/img]31 Plymouth Coupe, 392 Hemi, T56 magnum RS23J71 RS27J77 RP23J71 RO23J71 WM21J8A I don't regret the things I've done. I only regret the things I didn't do. "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. ~ Plato"
|
|
|
Re: Why do guys race small blocks?
[Re: Duner]
#1692114
10/31/14 06:39 PM
10/31/14 06:39 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,058
bigfork mn
dragram440
super stock
|
super stock
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,058
bigfork mn
|
To me it just seems like to make a 3800 lb car run 10's was a lot cheaper and street friendly with big block. Can you really buy a new r5p7 engine for cheap? or we talking a used engine that could be shot to start with. Thats kinda a chance you take with used.
67' charger 499 RB
10.57 at 127
|
|
|
Re: Why do guys race small blocks?
[Re: Hemi_Joel]
#1692115
10/31/14 06:40 PM
10/31/14 06:40 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,578
sweden
1Fast340
master
|
master
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,578
sweden
|
Quote:
Quote:
Don't get me wrong. I'm a die hard BB guy. I'm hot well versed in the SB area. So I'm going to ask a dumb question here.....
So what is this W8 thing all about. I'm just curious
Further, (revealing my ignorance of things that are not hemis) what is an r5p7? Is that a real small block mopar based engine, or a unique NASCAR creation? I looked at some pics online, and obviously the heads are not small block Mopar. How about the rest of it?
ofcourse they are mopar,the p7 are just like the ancient poly heads found on the 318A engines. well kind of,almost.
|
|
|
Re: Why do guys race small blocks?
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#1692116
10/31/14 06:51 PM
10/31/14 06:51 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
madscientist
master
|
master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
|
Quote:
Simple answer to this question..........POWER is directly rated to air flow.......flow more air, make more power. Now the question to the question, is how much power you want to make.
If your goal is 700hp or less, either can easily do it, with the smallblock in this range only required to be slightly more exotic to achieve these numbers. And in a weight for weight car, the small motor should be quicker because of lighter engine.
If 800hp is what you want, both can still easily do it, but the big block gets more costly and the smallblock gets REALLY costly.
If 900 is your goal, this is big block land......... NOT saying a smallblock won't make 900, it will. But at that level the 900hp small motor will cost WAY more than the 900hp big block and be less reliable.
If you want a good bit over 900hp, this is big block land......PERIOD
Monte
Once again, Monte is proving why he is one of the sharpest guys around.
It really is this simple.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
|
|
|
Re: Why do guys race small blocks?
[Re: SpareParts]
#1692120
10/31/14 08:29 PM
10/31/14 08:29 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,846
MI, usa
dvw
master
|
master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,846
MI, usa
|
Used parts, deals and all that are just that, good deals. I'm one of the luckiest on the planet. Traded labor for the upper half, short block donated. Bought a few new parts. I saddled it down with stock eddy carbs and a cross ram. hat did I end up with? A 572 that has gone 9.12@147, 3340lbs, 10.5 tires for less than $3500. Is it a world beater? No way. Can I bracket race it with low maintenance, yes. Was I lucky to get it ,Yes Yes yes. It doesn't have.027" rings, how much are those? Headers are easy to make until the inner fenders are still there. Doug
|
|
|
Re: Why do guys race small blocks?
[Re: dvw]
#1692121
10/31/14 08:52 PM
10/31/14 08:52 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,207
Menomonee Falls
DemonDust
master
|
master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,207
Menomonee Falls
|
Quote:
Used parts, deals and all that are just that, good deals. I'm one of the luckiest on the planet. Traded labor for the upper half, short block donated. Bought a few new parts. I saddled it down with stock eddy carbs and a cross ram. hat did I end up with? A 572 that has gone [Email]9.12@147[/Email], 3340lbs, 10.5 tires for less than $3500. Is it a world beater? No way. Can I bracket race it with low maintenance, yes. Was I lucky to get it ,Yes Yes yes. It doesn't have.027" rings, how much are those? Headers are easy to make until the inner fenders are still there.
Doug
I've got several brand new sets with .043 rings and .927 pins. Cheap cheap cheap... Also two cranks with Chevy journals. This engine will last me a lifetime unless the block splits in half.
Let this be our little secret... Cut the flanges off w2 headers and and tweak the tubes just a touch, P7 flanges will weld right on. Don't tell any one. OK? 
|
|
|
Re: Why do guys race small blocks?
[Re: DemonDust]
#1692122
10/31/14 09:13 PM
10/31/14 09:13 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,846
MI, usa
dvw
master
|
master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,846
MI, usa
|
Quote:
Quote:
Used parts, deals and all that are just that, good deals. I'm one of the luckiest on the planet. Traded labor for the upper half, short block donated. Bought a few new parts. I saddled it down with stock eddy carbs and a cross ram. hat did I end up with? A 572 that has gone [Email]9.12@147[/Email], 3340lbs, 10.5 tires for less than $3500. Is it a world beater? No way. Can I bracket race it with low maintenance, yes. Was I lucky to get it ,Yes Yes yes. It doesn't have.027" rings, how much are those? Headers are easy to make until the inner fenders are still there.
Doug
I've got several brand new sets with .043 rings and .927 pins. Cheap cheap cheap... Also two cranks with Chevy journals. This engine will last me a lifetime unless the block splits in half.
Let this be our little secret... Cut the flanges off w2 headers and and tweak the tubes just a touch, P7 flanges will weld right on. Don't tell any one. OK?
How does a .043" ring fit a .027" groove? No way they run at 7000 and make power. I believe your video it looks like 8500+, am I correct? What if you want to change the cam? Nothing against the old NASCAR stuff. But I question the work required raises the costs. Also not everyone has fab skills necessary. I'm assuming dry sump, was that extra $? Oil lines? Tank? Accessory drive? How about the bell housing and converter stuff? Personally if I wasn't running a specific class ( N/SS) I would definitely consider a P-7. That being said fabrication doesn't scare me at all. How about a "total cost" to get it in the car? How many MPH has your
car run and at what weight, just curious as I know your still working on ET.
Doug
|
|
|
Re: Why do guys race small blocks?
[Re: dvw]
#1692124
10/31/14 10:07 PM
10/31/14 10:07 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,207
Menomonee Falls
DemonDust
master
|
master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,207
Menomonee Falls
|
Quote:
How does a .043" ring fit a .027" groove? No way they run at 7000 and make power. I believe your video it looks like 8500+, am I correct? What if you want to change the cam? Nothing against the old NASCAR stuff. But I question the work required raises the costs. Also not everyone has fab skills necessary. I'm assuming dry sump, was that extra $? Oil lines? Tank? Accessory drive? How about the bell housing and converter stuff? Personally if I wasn't running a specific class ( N/SS) I would definitely consider a P-7. That being said fabrication doesn't scare me at all. How about a "total cost" to get it in the car? How many MPH has your
car run and at what weight, just curious as I know your still working on ET.
Doug
I have several sets of pistons with .043 ring lands is what I meant. I never said that 7000 was what it made power at. $7000 is what I have in the engine itself complete. I bought all the accessories and motorplate for $1200 from EEI. I bought a complete engine in NEW parts for $3800 from John Nizamoff (PS Arrow). I bought the oil tank for $450 from Peterson. I bought a Lot of AN lines/fittings from a shop in SC for $200 (enough lines and fittings to plumb about 5 engines). Cut apart a 2 sets of damaged inconel headers (free) and made one set to fit my duster. Bought pin oilers for $75 around $300 in gaskets, $100 for aluminum freeze plug kit, $65 for one wire alt. $115 for 20AN kevlar upper radiator hose, $190 for a radiator. Had to buy some misc bolts for intake, water manifold, headers, and a dizzy hold down.
If you are willing to search around you can find awesome deals. If you want one tomorrow you may pay a little more.
I built the engine myself so, I only had $180 in finish machining on the block.
Yes, your eyes are correct 9400 rpms. All the fab was done by myself or at my buddies machine shop by me. But I thought we were just talking the price of the engine? Either way when making power you have to build a trans and buy a good converter so that point is mute.
To date the car has been 141 mph. Et is erratic due to traction/suspension issues as is the 60'.
|
|
|
Re: Why do guys race small blocks?
[Re: DemonDust]
#1692127
11/01/14 12:43 AM
11/01/14 12:43 AM
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,846
MI, usa
dvw
master
|
master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,846
MI, usa
|
Quote:
Quote:
How does a .043" ring fit a .027" groove? No way they run at 7000 and make power. I believe your video it looks like 8500+, am I correct? What if you want to change the cam? Nothing against the old NASCAR stuff. But I question the work required raises the costs. Also not everyone has fab skills necessary. I'm assuming dry sump, was that extra $? Oil lines? Tank? Accessory drive? How about the bell housing and converter stuff? Personally if I wasn't running a specific class ( N/SS) I would definitely consider a P-7. That being said fabrication doesn't scare me at all. How about a "total cost" to get it in the car? How many MPH has your
car run and at what weight, just curious as I know your still working on ET.
Doug
I have several sets of pistons with .043 ring lands is what I meant. I never said that 7000 was what it made power at. $7000 is what I have in the engine itself complete. I bought all the accessories and motorplate for $1200 from EEI. I bought a complete engine in NEW parts for $3800 from John Nizamoff (PS Arrow). I bought the oil tank for $450 from Peterson. I bought a Lot of AN lines/fittings from a shop in SC for $200 (enough lines and fittings to plumb about 5 engines). Cut apart a 2 sets of damaged inconel headers (free) and made one set to fit my duster. Bought pin oilers for $75 around $300 in gaskets, $100 for aluminum freeze plug kit, $65 for one wire alt. $115 for 20AN kevlar upper radiator hose, $190 for a radiator. Had to buy some misc bolts for intake, water manifold, headers, and a dizzy hold down.
If you are willing to search around you can find awesome deals. If you want one tomorrow you may pay a little more.
I built the engine myself so, I only had $180 in finish machining on the block.
Yes, your eyes are correct 9400 rpms. All the fab was done by myself or at my buddies machine shop by me. But I thought we were just talking the price of the engine? Either way when making power you have to build a trans and buy a good converter so that point is mute.
To date the car has been 141 mph. Et is erratic due to traction/suspension issues as is the 60'.
You did pretty decent on the accessory costs. I knew you didn't run it at 7000. Just pointing out that the RPM range on one of these motors is pretty high. The transmission question was, what special parts are required to bolt it up? I guess my point is you can't pull out a 340/360 and bolt one of these in in a weekend for 5-7K total. I love listening to it though. I'm sure you'll get the chassis hooking as well.
Doug
|
|
|
Re: Why do guys race small blocks?
[Re: dvw]
#1692128
11/01/14 12:50 AM
11/01/14 12:50 AM
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
1967dartgt
master
|
master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
How does a .043" ring fit a .027" groove? No way they run at 7000 and make power. I believe your video it looks like 8500+, am I correct? What if you want to change the cam? Nothing against the old NASCAR stuff. But I question the work required raises the costs. Also not everyone has fab skills necessary. I'm assuming dry sump, was that extra $? Oil lines? Tank? Accessory drive? How about the bell housing and converter stuff? Personally if I wasn't running a specific class ( N/SS) I would definitely consider a P-7. That being said fabrication doesn't scare me at all. How about a "total cost" to get it in the car? How many MPH has your
car run and at what weight, just curious as I know your still working on ET.
Doug
I have several sets of pistons with .043 ring lands is what I meant. I never said that 7000 was what it made power at. $7000 is what I have in the engine itself complete. I bought all the accessories and motorplate for $1200 from EEI. I bought a complete engine in NEW parts for $3800 from John Nizamoff (PS Arrow). I bought the oil tank for $450 from Peterson. I bought a Lot of AN lines/fittings from a shop in SC for $200 (enough lines and fittings to plumb about 5 engines). Cut apart a 2 sets of damaged inconel headers (free) and made one set to fit my duster. Bought pin oilers for $75 around $300 in gaskets, $100 for aluminum freeze plug kit, $65 for one wire alt. $115 for 20AN kevlar upper radiator hose, $190 for a radiator. Had to buy some misc bolts for intake, water manifold, headers, and a dizzy hold down.
If you are willing to search around you can find awesome deals. If you want one tomorrow you may pay a little more.
I built the engine myself so, I only had $180 in finish machining on the block.
Yes, your eyes are correct 9400 rpms. All the fab was done by myself or at my buddies machine shop by me. But I thought we were just talking the price of the engine? Either way when making power you have to build a trans and buy a good converter so that point is mute.
To date the car has been 141 mph. Et is erratic due to traction/suspension issues as is the 60'.
You did pretty decent on the accessory costs. I knew you didn't run it at 7000. Just pointing out that the RPM range on one of these motors is pretty high. The transmission question was, what special parts are required to bolt it up? I guess my point is you can't pull out a 340/360 and bolt one of these in in a weekend for 5-7K total. I love listening to it though. I'm sure you'll get the chassis hooking as well.
Doug
If you add up what he has yes you can, you just need the adaptor plate that goes it a 727/904 trans and your done. I would assume sine you had a 340/360 you would already have Trans.
Brett Miller W9 cnc'd heads
STR Chassis fabraction
|
|
|
Re: Why do guys race small blocks?
[Re: 1967dartgt]
#1692129
11/01/14 12:56 AM
11/01/14 12:56 AM
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
|
master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
|
Quote:
Quote:
Simple answer to this question..........POWER is directly rated to air flow.......flow more air, make more power. Now the question to the question, is how much power you want to make.
If your goal is 700hp or less, either can easily do it, with the smallblock in this range only required to be slightly more exotic to achieve these numbers. And in a weight for weight car, the small motor should be quicker because of lighter engine.
If 800hp is what you want, both can still easily do it, but the big block gets more costly and the smallblock gets REALLY costly.
If 900 is your goal, this is big block land......... NOT saying a smallblock won't make 900, it will. But at that level the 900hp small motor will cost WAY more than the 900hp big block and be less reliable.
If you want a good bit over 900hp, this is big block land......PERIOD
Monte
Is this for na motors? Or would you consider this for power adder motors too.
Doesn't matter, air flow is KING..........You are familiar with this heads up small tire stuff. Keith Berrys small block corvette, runs 4.0s with about the baddest small block twin turbo motor that can be built. He weighs 2600lbs........Dewayne Mills and several others go 4.0s with twin turbo BIG blocks. They weigh 3250lbs. Now why would that be.........because they make a TON more power, that's why
Monte
|
|
|
|
|
Still waiting. Where'd the 7K 8 second 273 guys go?
