Re: B body and E body K member steering box mounting.
[Re: Sxrxrnr]
#1688804
10/23/14 07:28 AM
10/23/14 07:28 AM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302 Nebraska
72Swinger
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
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My coupler is off only a smidge. My alignment guy paralleled the pitman and idler then aligned the car. I later popped off the coupler and centered the wheel to my liking. The box is on center but the flat is still at 11. This to me is a matter of how the adapter is welded.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: B body and E body K member steering box mounting.
[Re: 72Swinger]
#1688805
10/23/14 09:58 PM
10/23/14 09:58 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,491 Lethbridge, AB, Canada
dangina
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,491
Lethbridge, AB, Canada
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Quote:
Seems all the small shaft boxes have good spline and thread engagement but the large spline have most all had issues. Could it be that the large spline have a different amount of taper from the factory and Borgeson is not compensating or aware of this? Just grabbing at straws here.
there is a long post on this on here we started awhile back. This issues is not just limited to the bigger splines. Borgeson does not think this is a problem.
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Re: B body and E body K member steering box mounting.
[Re: dangina]
#1688806
10/25/14 05:05 AM
10/25/14 05:05 AM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,272 Northern Calyfornua
Sxrxrnr
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,272
Northern Calyfornua
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Just wrapped up installation of replacement box today. Had exactly same outcome as original box,,,steering box 30 degrees off top center,,,rough estimate, steering shaft require extreme angle to insert into coupler, left tie rod 1/2 inch longer than right side and differing number of steering wheel turns for full full right turns verses full left turns which means differing radius's.
Shimmed box with quarter inch thick by 1 inch wide by some 3 inch long steel stock with 2 notches cut in to fit around 1/2 inch mounting bolts. Loosen 3 bolts slide shim in and tighten to 95 pounds.
Steering box now at top center and full left and full right turn radius's are same and steering shaft now goes straight into coupler as per Mopar spec. Tie rods still differing lengths, perhaps another 1/8 inch of shim will correct,,,may have enough thread to correct while maintaining toe,,,will check this out.
In my estimate, these boxes are jigged incorrectly. This has cost me considerable money, time, labor and frustration which would have been minimized with candor from certain folks when I first sought assistance and advice some 8 or 9 months ago when this anxiety ridden journey first began.
This swap of boxes is a very labor intensive task, particularly if you are running TTI headers and likely other models too.
Incidentally as per Peter Bergman, the box is not at top center unless the flat spot on your input shaft is pointed outward from engine at exactly 9 o'clock, same as for Bergman coupler set screw. 11 o'clock is incorrect.
With him on this I am total agreement. To this I might add, if your steering shaft is not going straight with no angle, you might want to determine why not.
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Re: B body and E body K member steering box mounting.
[Re: tahoechallenge]
#1688808
10/26/14 04:43 PM
10/26/14 04:43 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,272 Northern Calyfornua
Sxrxrnr
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,272
Northern Calyfornua
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Have had box installed and back on the road for a couple of days now. Box running on top center, tie rod off slightly with one side 1/2 inch longer than other,,,quarter inch subtracted from longer one will take care of this, but likely no impact on handling so why worry. Will have alignment checked again, just because.
Steering now feels like a new car compared to before and goes down the road and turns much better than before correction of box mounting. So far could not be more pleased with on center feel of steering.
I would suggest that those who market this box include some shimming mechanism with them when shipping,,,,or at the very least inform the end user of the possibility that they could be required for a successful and correct installation. Would have certainly saved me much aggravation if this had been done.
Not once in many calls and emails seeking tech support did anyone suggest that a simple shim might be required to resolve the experienced issues. It was only on this forum and some of its(been there done that members) that I was informed of this option, both in this thread and another one where these issues were discussed. Does make one wonder however why this suggestion was never forthcoming from the vendor,,,however i suspect that certain members have opinions.
As far as I can determine, I am the first to explicitly to complain of the steering box being off center and the problems with tie rod ends and the setting of proper toe. However am certain that those who did shimming were aware of this,,that's why they shimmed. I suggest that others who may be unaware check out their own installation.
There are 2 simple clues as to potential problem:
1. Does your steering shaft goe straight into the box coupler or U joint, or does it make an angle,,which is incorrect.
2. Does the flat spot on input shaft to box point directly at 9 O'clock, not at 11 or so. The flat spot should be at 9, if not you are likely not on top center. Bergman coupler set screw should also be at 9 if you are using their coupler and not Borgeson U-joint solution.
Given all this, once the box is successfully installed, it appears to be a worthy product to improve the driving experience of these 40 year plus incredible automobiles.
Thanks again to all who chimed in with suggestions and ideas.
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Re: B body and E body K member steering box mounting.
[Re: 70moparmike]
#1688810
10/29/14 09:49 PM
10/29/14 09:49 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,272 Northern Calyfornua
Sxrxrnr
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,272
Northern Calyfornua
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Quote:
i have the box and have not mounted it yet. do you have pics of the shims you made and how the were attached so that i may mock it up out of the car? i also have tti headersand do not wish to fight it all with fresh paint and the headaches that you have endured. thanks for posting this thread, very informative.
Considered several shim methods. As I had once used a piece of steel stock to remove an oil pan problem thought would work well for this,,(can be obtained any hardware retailer) in lengths of 3 ft or so for less than 10 bucks.
Piece I purchased was about 1 inch wide by 1/4 inch thick.
Take a look at the 2 bolt hole mounting flange on your Borgeson.
Cut off a piece of steel stock that measures the length of it,,,3 or 4 inches.
Hold this cut of piece along outer edge of the mounting surface of flange. From opposite side of flange, mark thru mounting holes the steel stock piece with marking pen.
Using drill press and 17/32 or there about drill, drill the holes.
Using hack saw or cut off tool, cut from edge so that holes on short side extend to the edge.
Smooth out all edges.
On my 440 engine with 2 inch TTI's, could only remove and replace box from above after removing battery box etc. Tight but made it after a bit of gymnastics
Warning. I was removing an already installed Borgeson to replace it. Had removed stock box FF with K member out of car.
Squirm Borgeson in place, start all 3 bolts carefully. Easy to cross thread. Someone had done this on my car,,,I know who,,was not I.
From beneath car, slide shim into place on 2 bolt side and tighten up bolts. Not too tightly yet.
Install Bergman coupler and attach steering shaft.
Inside car raise column and fasten into place using the 2 studs on dash. Go back under hood and take a look at shaft. Is it going straight into coupler . If so, all is likely ok.
If at an angle, either you do not need shim or perhaps need more than 1/4 inch. If shim not required, remove it. If all is well, torque bolts to about 100 pounds.
Turn steering wheel full left OR full right. Go opposite direction to full lock,,about 3 3/4 turns. Divide by 2, take wheel there. Flat spot on shaft should be at exactly 9 o'clock pointed at chassis.
Your steering wheel may be 180 degree off,,reverse it on "shoe" side of coupler. Set screw on coupler should be at 9 directly over flat spot.
Complete installation and check alignment. If toe in was spot on before, pitman should almost fall into drag link.
Got you pm, will take photos of plug wires. I used Bergaman coupler and metric hose adapter. Used my own hoses.
Sorry on 6 point bolts, as noted mine were a bit buggered. Suspect someone had used an impact wrench on them at one time. I've ordered up new replacement 12 points,,,they are in the mail on the way. I recommend thread chasing K member bolt holes if any suspicion,,,like bolts coming out hard on removal.
Last edited by Sxrxrnr; 10/30/14 01:14 AM.
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Re: B body and E body K member steering box mounting.
[Re: 70moparmike]
#1688812
10/30/14 01:34 AM
10/30/14 01:34 AM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,272 Northern Calyfornua
Sxrxrnr
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,272
Northern Calyfornua
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Quote:
i have the box and have not mounted it yet. do you have pics of the shims you made and how the were attached so that i may mock it up out of the car? i also have tti headersand do not wish to fight it all with fresh paint and the headaches that you have endured. thanks for posting this thread, very informative.
t
Save your paint when installing with K member in the car.
Wrestling box In and out can do a lot of damage.
Take masking tape and mask off all vulnerable areas. Then use duct tape on top of this. Offers superior protection and will not damage paint while being easily removed when done.
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