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Re: What is Proper Valvetrain Geometry?
[Re: Quicktree]
#1685570
10/16/14 11:27 PM
10/16/14 11:27 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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Quote:
i'll bet correcting my geometry will not net anywhere near 46hp with my current combo. that would put me near 700hp with a small flat tappet cam. 
If it helps you 2 hp and only costs a little time it is worth it. Free power is free power.
This can go right along with "nah, I don't degree my cams, its probably close enough"........Im only bracket racing.................... and all those other things that are "close enough".
This is also the reason that stockers with cast intakes, thermo-quads, stock unported iron heads and various other things will embarrass most guys aluminum headed, big cam "race" motors on the track. Its called attention to detail and getting what you can out of a combo.
Monte
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Re: What is Proper Valvetrain Geometry?
[Re: B3RE]
#1685572
10/16/14 11:35 PM
10/16/14 11:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
Sport440
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
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Quote:
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Got any before after set up info? Mid lift, 2/3rds lift? Where did the 90* occur in the lift before correction?
What I can tell you is, the shaft had to be raised .270" to get to 90*.
Raised to get to 90* at zero lift?? I think that's what "your" shooting for. I don't think that's best, if its what your doing.
Also there is more to the valvetrain geometry then the angle of the rocker to the valve.
Pushrod length and pushrod adjuster plays a big part too.
Like others of stated, there is no one Perfect valvetrain geometry. It can be manipulated to benefit the cam/spring/rocker combo.
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Re: What is Proper Valvetrain Geometry?
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#1685573
10/17/14 04:11 AM
10/17/14 04:11 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
Quote:
i'll bet correcting my geometry will not net anywhere near 46hp with my current combo. that would put me near 700hp with a small flat tappet cam.
If it helps you 2 hp and only costs a little time it is worth it. Free power is free power.
This can go right along with "nah, I don't degree my cams, its probably close enough"........Im only bracket racing.................... and all those other things that are "close enough".
This is also the reason that stockers with cast intakes, thermo-quads, stock unported iron heads and various other things will embarrass most guys aluminum headed, big cam "race" motors on the track. Its called attention to detail and getting what you can out of a combo.
Monte
 so how much does a builder charge to check and correct? by the way I am going down to buy a jeep from AAron down in Tampa tonight. he said he knows you.
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Re: What is Proper Valvetrain Geometry?
[Re: GTS340]
#1685575
10/17/14 10:54 AM
10/17/14 10:54 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
Depends how bad it is, if you have to flat mill shaft saddles and make blocks to change shaft height and/or offset the shaft it will be considerably more expensive than just checking it. Plus you may need new pushrods if moved much.
ok if a builder can guarantee me 46 horsepower for a few hundred bucks a min if not I'm back to not caring 
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Re: What is Proper Valvetrain Geometry?
[Re: GTS340]
#1685576
10/17/14 10:57 AM
10/17/14 10:57 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
Depends how bad it is, if you have to flat mill shaft saddles and make blocks to change shaft height and/or offset the shaft it will be considerably more expensive than just checking it. Plus you may need new pushrods if moved much.
ok its a builder can guarantee me 46 horsepower for a few hundred bucks a min if not I'm back to not caring
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Re: What is Proper Valvetrain Geometry?
[Re: B3RE]
#1685581
10/17/14 01:26 PM
10/17/14 01:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Depends how bad it is, if you have to flat mill shaft saddles and make blocks to change shaft height and/or offset the shaft it will be considerably more expensive than just checking it. Plus you may need new pushrods if moved much.
ok its a builder can guarantee me 46 horsepower for a few hundred bucks a min if not I'm back to not caring
You know what I don't care about? It's you not caring. Listen, if you want drama, watch a soap opera. If you are truly interested in participating for the betterment of all, by all means, do so. Otherwise, step aside son, and let the grownups have a meaningful discussion.
you know what I care about your opinion? don't ask heck I don't even know who you are..
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Re: What is Proper Valvetrain Geometry?
[Re: Quicktree]
#1685582
10/17/14 01:27 PM
10/17/14 01:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
Quote:
Depends how bad it is, if you have to flat mill shaft saddles and make blocks to change shaft height and/or offset the shaft it will be considerably more expensive than just checking it. Plus you may need new pushrods if moved much.
ok if a builder can guarantee me 46 horsepower for a few hundred bucks I am in if not I'm back to not caring
stupid auto correct on my phone 
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Re: What is Proper Valvetrain Geometry?
[Re: B3RE]
#1685583
10/17/14 01:35 PM
10/17/14 01:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Depends how bad it is, if you have to flat mill shaft saddles and make blocks to change shaft height and/or offset the shaft it will be considerably more expensive than just checking it. Plus you may need new pushrods if moved much.
ok its a builder can guarantee me 46 horsepower for a few hundred bucks a min if not I'm back to not caring
You know what I don't care about? It's you not caring. Listen, if you want drama, watch a soap opera. If you are truly interested in participating for the betterment of all, by all means, do so. Otherwise, step aside son, and let the grownups have a meaningful discussion.
ok i looked at your profile, so you are a engine builder. where are you located? i'll be glad to pay you for 46 additional guaranteed HP. how much? I call BS on this one
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Re: What is Proper Valvetrain Geometry?
[Re: Thumperdart]
#1685584
10/17/14 01:42 PM
10/17/14 01:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Depends how bad it is, if you have to flat mill shaft saddles and make blocks to change shaft height and/or offset the shaft it will be considerably more expensive than just checking it. Plus you may need new pushrods if moved much.
ok its a builder can guarantee me 46 horsepower for a few hundred bucks a min if not I'm back to not caring
You know what I don't care about? It's you not caring. Listen, if you want drama, watch a soap opera. If you are truly interested in participating for the betterment of all, by all means, do so. Otherwise, step aside son, and let the grownups have a meaningful discussion.
 MY HERO................   
coming from a drama queen
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Re: What is Proper Valvetrain Geometry?
[Re: Crizila]
#1685585
10/17/14 03:30 PM
10/17/14 03:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,290
Tucson AZ,
MadMopars
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,290
Tucson AZ,
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Quote:
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What is Proper Rocker Arm Geometry? I used to believe you could buy a set of rocker arms, throw pushrods in and call it a day. This would be incorrect, or so it now seems... I am curious to know the following.
1.) What do you guys consider to be proper rocker arm geometry and why?
2.) What brand and/or style Rocker Arm do you recommend be utilized to achieve proper rocker geometry and why?
How much air should I run in my tires? - about the same generalization as the posters question. Think this thread went exactly where he thought it would. The OP runs at the same 2 tracks that I do. They are generally overwhelmed with cars. You are lucky if you can get 3 runs in - in a 6 hour period - after 3 oildowns and a 2000 ft DA change. Gleaning any useable info ( within in 2 tenths and 5 MPH ) is living in fantasy land. I declare this thread closed!! Is it winter yet??
Regarding my first question, 90* at mid lift is not the same as 90* at 2/3 lift, nor is it the same as 90* at full lift. All three are different, all three require a different amount of modification to achieve and all three will provide different results. I was curious to know which method was preferred and why. Seems like a reasonable question. 
As for the second question, ductile iron rockers are not the same as roller rockers and each individual manufacturer of roller rockers is said to provide variables. The lengths are said to vary, as such the geometry will vary as well. It has been said many times, "don't buy the cheap roller rockers, buy the high dollar ones instead". I thought maybe someone could come forward with specifics relative to geometry to justify that claim. I now believe that either the majority of people don't know the difference or alternatively aren't speaking up, for varying reasons of course...
Furthermore, who said anything about having to pay a machine shop to set up there valvetrain? If you have common sense and basic tools, it will get you a long way. If you have common sense and no tools I would think you would at least like to know what your paying the machine shop for. If you have no tools and no common sense, I hope you don't take your parts to the guy you were trashing on the internet... 
And yes, this thread did go about how I expected. How nice... 
With that being said, Thanks to anyone who has or continues to offer constructive input. I do weed through the discussion for it and as always, I greatly appreciate it.
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Re: What is Proper Valvetrain Geometry?
[Re: MadMopars]
#1685586
10/17/14 04:11 PM
10/17/14 04:11 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
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Here is some constructive input. There is no correct answer to your question - "what is proper rocker arm geometry" - which, as you said, you already knew. Just as there is no correct answer to "what is the best rocker arm". There also is no correct answer to what is the MOST correct rocker arm geometry. Hope this helps. Here is a tip for you; shoot for longevity. It might not give you the most area under the curve, but it will cost the least and give you the highest probability of getting to the end of the track - on a regular basis. JMO. So, how much air should I put in my tires??
Fastest 300
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