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Re: please share your gen 3 Hemi build
[Re: hemidup]
#1675110
10/19/14 10:22 PM
10/19/14 10:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,943
Melbourne.....Oz-land
Moparmal
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,943
Melbourne.....Oz-land
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Quote:
Quote:
I think the idea that the cranks are causing oiling issues is mostly BS.
Stanton Racing (drag pak builder) told me the drag pak cars need 11.5 quarts between the pan and accusump. And there are at least a half dozen guys running stock 6.1 cranks shifting at 8200-8600 rpm and all have been fine for 2+ years.
Stanton mass produced the Drag Pak engines.For whatever reason he ground down the 6.1 rod journals to except Chevy SB rods. Whomever he chose to grind the crankshafts down must have been "someone" with little or no knowledge how to properly grind a crankshaft. After disassembling the Stanton fresh built 5.7 the first red flag rose when I noticed was that some of the supposedly zero deck pistons where either sticking out of the hole or in the hole which tells me that "someone" didn't know how to index a crankshaft properly. And the worse cluster mess up was that one piston was .006" above deck on the pin side and .005" in the hole on the other side??? .011" difference from pin to pin on a 3.917 bore. How hard on the rod bearings would that much deflection on the rod journal cause? I brought this up to Stanton himself but I'm not inclined to tell you what his suggestions were cause he'd probably plead the 5th so I made the decision to scrap the crank and grind a new one that I had on hand. So that brings up the question as to how many Drag Pak owners used their Stanton built motors as is and blame oiling issues as the reason they windowed a block? Anyways, just to be safe a Molnar crankshaft was purchased to replace the OEM 6.1.
Jerry makes a very important point on the Drag Pak program....
Seems Mopar laid off the original Drag Pak program development team - and the individuals directly involved took a lot of IP with them.
Mopar then contracted the assembly program to Stanton...who did not have access to all the IP and had build targets to meet.....
....thats why Hemidup's post is worth referencing.
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Re: please share your gen 3 Hemi build
[Re: MattW]
#1675112
10/20/14 12:04 AM
10/20/14 12:04 AM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 72
San Angelo, Texas
Cevidicus
member
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member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 72
San Angelo, Texas
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Quote:
Quote:
Anybody have a part number for a 6.4 crank and a 6.4 short block?
Short block 68086564AB orRL086564AB
Crankshaft 5038339A
Thanks for the numbers. Although, I couldn't find anything.
I was trying to find the price for a new 6.4 crank to compare with other options.
My initial thought was to use the 6.4 crank in my 09 5.7 Eagle engine with custom pistons and forged rods. This would be for a turbo build. Not interested in gaining cu in's but a forged crank on a budget.
What does it take to run a 6.1 crank in a vvt 5.7?
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Re: please share your gen 3 Hemi build
[Re: Cevidicus]
#1675113
10/20/14 12:11 AM
10/20/14 12:11 AM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
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A crank spacer is needed. This has been done already with guys stroking 6.4's. One thing to be aware of is the timing chains on the VVT's had problems early on. Just something to double check ahead of time.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: please share your gen 3 Hemi build
[Re: 72Swinger]
#1675114
10/20/14 12:50 AM
10/20/14 12:50 AM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 72
San Angelo, Texas
Cevidicus
member
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member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 72
San Angelo, Texas
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Quote:
A crank spacer is needed. This has been done already with guys stroking 6.4's. One thing to be aware of is the timing chains on the VVT's had problems early on. Just something to double check ahead of time.
I plan on updating to the the timing set and tensioners when the time comes. Hopefully by then there will be a heavy duty aftermarket piece available.
I have seen the timing chains break on a couple auto challengers w/ mds. Not a fun time.
Is there a spacer available or is that a custom deal?
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Re: please share your gen 3 Hemi build
[Re: Charger453]
#1839676
06/02/15 01:09 PM
06/02/15 01:09 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 15
kansas city mo
turbofreek
member
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member
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 15
kansas city mo
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So it looks like lots of confusion on the differences of these engines. Im gonna clear a few things up from what i have learned and been told from either andy at pwr or a few other builders on the front lines of these beasts.
Eagle heads ported will out flow all other factories except apachies and its really really close anyways.
Apachies have a different valve layout. Bore notching recomended or required. Most recommend 4.06 bore or more for shrouding issues.
Thitek aftermarket heads are the absolute best way to go boosted or forced induction. They also outflow the stock stuff ported. They come in different sizes and will allow stock rocker setups to be used. Better valve springs such as double or triple springs vs the beehive on stocker heads.
More lift as well which equals much more power on the table from them there.
Newer gen4 blocks are different from the older 6.1 or 5.7. Heads are interchangable fwiw.
1200rwhp is where stock heads begin to have sealing issues. Some have passed this number successfully but few are sharing how. Thiteks will allow more due to thicker stronger casting. How much more i dont know but several hundred horse power at least.
Most early 5.7 blocks can be bored to 4" and still be thicker than a 6.1 casting block in the cylinder walls.
6.1 block strength vs 5.7 is a sales myth from ma mopar herself. It sold lots of srt8s due to this very thing. Piston sprayers is a nice upgrade for sure but thats about it. If your starting from scratch 5.7 will be just fine. Most will never meet the limits of the casting vs meeting their tuning ability first. One will get blamed to avoid the other truths.
Non mds lifters can be made solid roller its been done and a few places sell the spacers or will do the job for you.
There are several rocker system in the aftermarket but are costly. Some are not adjustable and the good ones are costly. Including needing head machine work to remove the stands.
Cam profiles. Hhp is gonna be your best bet for a performer. They use bes for their engines. That is an awefully tough bill to beat in the racing world or engine world for that matter. There are others yes but remember the one place to not sell your self to short or to long is cam profile.
Well im outta free time for now. Im not an expert. Ive just researched a ton when others had no answers years ago. Lots of phone calls and lengthy conversations. Now its just a click away to find this info all over the place.
dont feel like typing it again
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Re: please share your gen 3 Hemi build
[Re: Charger453]
#1839703
06/02/15 01:41 PM
06/02/15 01:41 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 15
kansas city mo
turbofreek
member
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member
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 15
kansas city mo
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Welcome. Been a long time since ive been over here. My current build 67 dart 05 5.7 block 4" bore billet caps stroke yet to be determined 80mm billet turbo 1.80 glide reid 2pc case from ptc holley hp efi 160lbs injectors Davis tc-2 tc+ profiler box muscle motors dp intake shorter than short 4500 when done jakes billet elbow accufab 105mm tb Strange 9", on leafs with assassin bars Tons of money thrown at it and still not done. 
dont feel like typing it again
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Re: please share your gen 3 Hemi build
[Re: turbofreek]
#1839783
06/02/15 03:28 PM
06/02/15 03:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,266
Renton Washington
Triple Threat
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,266
Renton Washington
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Welcome. Been a long time since ive been over here.
My current build
67 dart
05 5.7 block 4" bore billet caps stroke yet to be determined
80mm billet turbo
1.80 glide reid 2pc case from ptc
holley hp efi 160lbs injectors
Davis tc-2 tc+ profiler box
muscle motors dp intake shorter than short 4500 when done
jakes billet elbow accufab 105mm tb
Strange 9", on leafs with assassin bars
Tons of money thrown at it and still not done.
BALLER!!!
-Dustin
67 Dart, 9 second, 392" G3 Hemi
68 Barracuda 340 F/SA
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Re: please share your gen 3 Hemi build
[Re: Triple Threat]
#1839866
06/02/15 05:15 PM
06/02/15 05:15 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 15
kansas city mo
turbofreek
member
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member
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 15
kansas city mo
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Lol. You see how much a reid case promod glide is? That thing killed me. Haha
dont feel like typing it again
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Re: please share your gen 3 Hemi build
[Re: Charger453]
#1839891
06/02/15 06:01 PM
06/02/15 06:01 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,174
PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,174
PA.
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I'm sure glad you guys are working out the issues with this new stuff as it cost WAY to much to go fast with it. Until then I will play with my 40 plus year old small blocks. Heck when I see what just the cores are selling for I cringe.
1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: please share your gen 3 Hemi build
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#1839913
06/02/15 06:25 PM
06/02/15 06:25 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 15
kansas city mo
turbofreek
member
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member
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 15
kansas city mo
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6.1s are steap even used. 5.7 can be done real cheap. Its the ignition or efi part that can get costly unless you know how to find and what to look for on the cheap side of expenses.
Realisticly you can get a running 5.7 for 1200 with needing induction and controls either efi or carb and ignition box. Megasquirt being rather low cost plug n play for stock engines. Adjustable for future mods as need.
Limited only by budget or needs.
dont feel like typing it again
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Re: please share your gen 3 Hemi build
[Re: superhog88]
#1840244
06/03/15 02:28 AM
06/03/15 02:28 AM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 15
kansas city mo
turbofreek
member
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member
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 15
kansas city mo
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who is making the 4in pistons :x. ...a very reputable piston maker once i know my stroke choice. Im in limbo deciding between two class rules. One a big cube will choke max power. The other would make me 1st round fodder if i choose to turn it up. So im leaving it as my last thing i do after all else is finished and plumbed. Weisco has made a set or 2 ive heard as has diamond. Not a big deal its just a custom piston set.
dont feel like typing it again
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Re: please share your gen 3 Hemi build
[Re: Charger453]
#1848738
06/14/15 02:10 PM
06/14/15 02:10 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
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Rocker arm pad runs out of sweep surface with the shafts in stock location.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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