Re: 1970 Challenger A63= Special edition?
[Re: autoxcuda]
#166309
05/09/11 10:21 PM
05/09/11 10:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 29,679 Hamtramck, PA
Alaskan_TA
Fluffy Balladeer
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Fluffy Balladeer
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 29,679
Hamtramck, PA
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In a nutshell, it is just not possible. The car in question is a real T/A, but is not coded as a WSS. Some of the goodies were added at some point, but no codes were changed. Ken covered the details on it pretty well at http://www.aarta.com/myths/myths.html
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Re: 1970 Challenger A63= Special edition?
[Re: ratroaster]
#166310
05/09/11 11:20 PM
05/09/11 11:20 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,165 Florida
cataclysm80
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,165
Florida
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Quote:
This brings up a good question. A 70 model year JS23(RT) with A63, does the one pc. rear/tail Panel Astrotone Moulding remain textured Argent or is it blacked out? If it does remain textured argent, then does the grill remain textured argent to match the rear panel or black like a regular RT with out A63? Seen them restored both ways. Which is correct?
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I believee tail panel piece is always textured argent regardless of whether the car is an R/T or not. Only the grille comes argent(non R/T) or black(R/T and T/A).
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That's what I've always seen and believed. And IIRC, the parts book only has one p/n for it. If it came argent and black there would be two p/n's.
In 1970, the challenger R/T cars did Not have a blacked out tailpanel, so there was no reason to offer a blacked out A63 trim piece. A 1970 Challenger R/T with A63 will use an astrotone panel. There has been some discussion about different shades of astrotone, but I believe this to be a production variation, not something that was done intentionaly. astrotone doesn't really match the grill argent, it's a bit darker.
Tav
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Re: 1970 Challenger A63= Special edition?
[Re: cataclysm80]
#166312
05/09/11 11:49 PM
05/09/11 11:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,347 Today? Who Knows?
1_WILD_RT
Management Trainee
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Management Trainee
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,347
Today? Who Knows?
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Quote:
Quote:
This brings up a good question. A 70 model year JS23(RT) with A63, does the one pc. rear/tail Panel Astrotone Moulding remain textured Argent or is it blacked out? If it does remain textured argent, then does the grill remain textured argent to match the rear panel or black like a regular RT with out A63? Seen them restored both ways. Which is correct?
Quote:
I believee tail panel piece is always textured argent regardless of whether the car is an R/T or not. Only the grille comes argent(non R/T) or black(R/T and T/A).
Quote:
That's what I've always seen and believed. And IIRC, the parts book only has one p/n for it. If it came argent and black there would be two p/n's.
In 1970, the challenger R/T cars did Not have a blacked out tailpanel, so there was no reason to offer a blacked out A63 trim piece. A 1970 Challenger R/T with A63 will use an astrotone panel. There has been some discussion about different shades of astrotone, but I believe this to be a production variation, not something that was done intentionaly. astrotone doesn't really match the grill argent, it's a bit darker.
Tav
Sorry guys, I know it's not the popular opinion but my first Challenger which I bought in 1974 was an R/T SE & the tail panel was black... Can I prove the original owner didn't paint it? No.. But my uncle was the original owner of another R/T SE & it too had a black rear panel.... The rear panel on my challenger was hammered when I bought the car in 74 so I pulled the panel & replaced it... Tossed the original in the rafters of the garage... It was still there when I first saw this question was posted back around 04 & I pulled it down & checked it out.. Definately black but textured not like the astrotone but more like orginsol (sp).... I offered to send it to Ken but he had no interest because he had already made up his mind & didn't want evidence that he could be wrong..Oh when that thread was running there were probably six or seven posters who had owned R/T S.E's that said their cars had black panels dating back to at least the early eighties..I've seen the there's no part number argument before & there are dozens of other parts with out special numbers... Do they not exsist too? Anyone ever fine a part number for the molded brake booster vacuum hose? Or don't those exsist?
"The Armies of our ancestors were lucky, in that they were not trailed by a second army of pencil pushers."
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Re: 1970 Challenger A63= Special edition?
[Re: ratroaster]
#166315
05/10/11 09:47 AM
05/10/11 09:47 AM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,165 Florida
cataclysm80
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,165
Florida
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Quote:
So regardless of the rear panel all RT/SE and RT/A63 had black grills?
Yes, all 1970 Challenger R/T should have black grills.
Tav
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Re: 1970 Challenger A63= Special edition?
[Re: 1_WILD_RT]
#166316
05/10/11 09:57 AM
05/10/11 09:57 AM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,165 Florida
cataclysm80
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,165
Florida
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Quote:
In 1970, the challenger R/T cars did Not have a blacked out tailpanel, so there was no reason to offer a blacked out A63 trim piece. A 1970 Challenger R/T with A63 will use an astrotone panel. There has been some discussion about different shades of astrotone, but I believe this to be a production variation, not something that was done intentionaly. astrotone doesn't really match the grill argent, it's a bit darker.
Quote:
Sorry guys, I know it's not the popular opinion but my first Challenger which I bought in 1974 was an R/T SE & the tail panel was black... Can I prove the original owner didn't paint it? No.. But my uncle was the original owner of another R/T SE & it too had a black rear panel.... The rear panel on my challenger was hammered when I bought the car in 74 so I pulled the panel & replaced it... Tossed the original in the rafters of the garage... It was still there when I first saw this question was posted back around 04 & I pulled it down & checked it out.. Definately black but textured not like the astrotone but more like organisol.... I offered to send it to Ken but he had no interest because he had already made up his mind & didn't want evidence that he could be wrong..Oh when that thread was running there were probably six or seven posters who had owned R/T S.E's that said their cars had black panels dating back to at least the early eighties..I've seen the there's no part number argument before & there are dozens of other parts with out special numbers... Do they not exsist too? Anyone ever fine a part number for the molded brake booster vacuum hose? Or don't those exsist?
Thanks for bringing this up Randy. It's good for everyone to keep an open mind about the possibilities. Keep that rear panel in the rafters safe, it's the oldest example I've heard of. Maybe some day with further research, this issue will be satisfactorily resolved.
Does anyone have a known original R/T SE with an astrotone panel?
Tav
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Re: 1970 Challenger A63= Special edition?
[Re: autoxcuda]
#166317
05/10/11 10:18 AM
05/10/11 10:18 AM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,165 Florida
cataclysm80
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,165
Florida
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Quote:
I don't think A63 was availible on 70 T/A's or cars with N94 fiberglass hoods. The dealer literature I see pre dates T/A and N94 release dates.
Now for 1971 the similar A46 molding package was not availible for N94 cars. http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/imag...hallenger_4.jpg So, I would think that would apply to the 1970 A63 package also?? It's because the rear hood molding (unmodified) will not clip onto the thicker fiberglass hood.
Barry answered most of this stuff already, and I agree with what he's said. A63 & A46 were not available on a T/A or any car with the N94 T/A hood. If I recall correctly, that N94 hood was also not available on SE or A78 formal roof cars.
I also used to think that the rear hood molding wouldn't fit on the fiberglass hood, but further investigation revealed that the rear hood molding WILL fit on Original T/A hoods, but there is some difficulty installing it on a Reproduction hood. I think the reason the rear hood molding was not available with the T/A hood is simply a styling choice, similar to how some color combinations are not reccomended, they didn't want bright trim all around the blacked out hood. Dayclona has the rear hood molding installed on an original T/A hood on his 71 T/A creation.
The Western Special T/A is a very interesting car, but from what I've seen, I'd agree that it's not an A91 Western Sport Special. It's a modified T/A.
Tav
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Re: 1970 Challenger A63= Special edition?
[Re: cataclysm80]
#166318
05/10/11 12:44 PM
05/10/11 12:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,560 So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,560
So Cal
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Quote:
... I also used to think that the rear hood molding wouldn't fit on the fiberglass hood, but further investigation revealed that the rear hood molding WILL fit on Original T/A hoods, but there is some difficulty installing it on a Reproduction hood. I think the reason the rear hood molding was not available with the T/A hood is simply a styling choice, similar to how some color combinations are not reccomended, they didn't want bright trim all around the blacked out hood. Dayclona has the rear hood molding installed on an original T/A hood on his 71 T/A creation. ...
I've looked at an original T/A hood and it seemed awful thick for the molding to pinch around. But I didn't try fitting a trim piece. It's a tight fit around a stock steel hood. I wonder if Dayclona had to trim the molding to get it to fit?? Interesting...
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Re: 1970 Challenger A63= Special edition?
[Re: autoxcuda]
#166319
05/10/11 02:25 PM
05/10/11 02:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,547 Las Vegas, NV
6bblgt
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,547
Las Vegas, NV
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One of the 1971 N94 hood'd Challengers has the moulding package on it. Car is OPTIONED with and Fender tag coded: A46 M25 M31 M91 & N94. I will agree, it's an exception to the "rule".
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Re: 1970 Challenger A63= Special edition?
[Re: autoxcuda]
#166320
05/10/11 03:07 PM
05/10/11 03:07 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,165 Florida
cataclysm80
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,165
Florida
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Quote:
I wonder if Dayclona had to trim the molding to get it to fit?? Interesting...
When I talked with him about it, he said that he didn't have to modify the hood or the trim. Tight fit, but it went right on.
I happened to have an ASC&P reproduction hood & original rear hood trim laying around back then, so I checked the fit myself. It's real close to fitting on the reproduction hood, but won't quite go without thinning the repro hood in just a couple spots.
Tav
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Re: 1970 Challenger A63= Special edition?
[Re: faud88]
#166322
05/11/11 01:21 PM
05/11/11 01:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,610 Indiana
EV2DEMON
The Camaro Kid
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The Camaro Kid
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,610
Indiana
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Quote:
I know its not common. But I have a factory R/T SE that has a argent grille. I have pictures from 1970 to verify. Sometimes they just put in what they had at the time.....
What color is the car?
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Re: 1970 Challenger A63= Special edition?
[Re: 1_WILD_RT]
#166323
05/11/11 04:52 PM
05/11/11 04:52 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,550 Sacramento CA
Morty426
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,550
Sacramento CA
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
This brings up a good question. A 70 model year JS23(RT) with A63, does the one pc. rear/tail Panel Astrotone Moulding remain textured Argent or is it blacked out? If it does remain textured argent, then does the grill remain textured argent to match the rear panel or black like a regular RT with out A63? Seen them restored both ways. Which is correct?
Quote:
I believee tail panel piece is always textured argent regardless of whether the car is an R/T or not. Only the grille comes argent(non R/T) or black(R/T and T/A).
Quote:
That's what I've always seen and believed. And IIRC, the parts book only has one p/n for it. If it came argent and black there would be two p/n's.
In 1970, the challenger R/T cars did Not have a blacked out tailpanel, so there was no reason to offer a blacked out A63 trim piece. A 1970 Challenger R/T with A63 will use an astrotone panel. There has been some discussion about different shades of astrotone, but I believe this to be a production variation, not something that was done intentionaly. astrotone doesn't really match the grill argent, it's a bit darker.
Tav
Sorry guys, I know it's not the popular opinion but my first Challenger which I bought in 1974 was an R/T SE & the tail panel was black... Can I prove the original owner didn't paint it? No.. But my uncle was the original owner of another R/T SE & it too had a black rear panel.... The rear panel on my challenger was hammered when I bought the car in 74 so I pulled the panel & replaced it... Tossed the original in the rafters of the garage... It was still there when I first saw this question was posted back around 04 & I pulled it down & checked it out.. Definately black but textured not like the astrotone but more like orginsol (sp).... I offered to send it to Ken but he had no interest because he had already made up his mind & didn't want evidence that he could be wrong..Oh when that thread was running there were probably six or seven posters who had owned R/T S.E's that said their cars had black panels dating back to at least the early eighties..I've seen the there's no part number argument before & there are dozens of other parts with out special numbers... Do they not exsist too? Anyone ever fine a part number for the molded brake booster vacuum hose? Or don't those exsist?
You can add me to the list. My R/T SE I had in 81 had a black back and my current R/T SE has a black back.
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Re: 1970 Challenger A63= Special edition?
[Re: EV2DEMON]
#166325
05/11/11 11:22 PM
05/11/11 11:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 450 OHIO
faud88
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 450
OHIO
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Quote:
Quote:
I know its not common. But I have a factory R/T SE that has a argent grille. I have pictures from 1970 to verify. Sometimes they just put in what they had at the time.....
What color is the car?
The Car is Black
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Re: 1970 Challenger A63= Special edition?
[Re: cataclysm80]
#166326
07/18/11 07:42 AM
07/18/11 07:42 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,547 Las Vegas, NV
6bblgt
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,547
Las Vegas, NV
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Quote:
Quote:
I wonder if Dayclona had to trim the molding to get it to fit?? Interesting...
When I talked with him about it, he said that he didn't have to modify the hood or the trim. Tight fit, but it went right on.
I happened to have an ASC&P reproduction hood & original rear hood trim laying around back then, so I checked the fit myself. It's real close to fitting on the reproduction hood, but won't quite go without thinning the repro hood in just a couple spots.
Tav
Going through a bunch of N94 threads & found one by "DAYCLONA" where he states his '71 T/A clone had a repro hood & trimming was needed.
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I used the stock steel 1970 hood trim, with the standard length studs/nuts,.....no trimming was needed on my hood, except where I added the rear edge SE/belt trim, that just needed a thinning of the glass for the trim to snap on, but my hood is a Fiberglass Trends repro, a very nice/accurate repro that I installed around 1980
Mike
T/A hoods on '71 Challengers
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