Re: Anyone ever spray PPG Omni? Help!
[Re: 4speeds4me]
#164899
12/10/08 10:48 PM
12/10/08 10:48 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,489 west kentucky
gomangoRTSE
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pro stock
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,489
west kentucky
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PPG dominates the OE automotive finishes business. Both in American and worldwide. In 98% of the occurances a bad paint job/adhesion etc is due to incorrect or poor prep, or simply not following the instuctions. I sell PPG Marine, and architectural finishes, and they send me to school several times a year. They give me direct access to product line specific specialists. I get calls from painters and boat companies etc, when something doesnt come out right. And I can promise you 98% of the time the problem is due to poor surface prep, applying at wrong temps, or not applying according to instructions.
That being said, noone ever wants to admit at first they misapplied the product, or didnt prep the metal, wood, aluminum, masonry etc. Men and instuctions oftentimes dont go well together. No mechanic, painter, welder, plumber ever wants to admit any lack of knowledge or error whatsover. We all learn new things from time to time, or slip up and make mistakes from time to time. I had a situation where a painter did a whole school with a product line and it was perfect except the doors. In the middle where the kids would open and close the doors with their dirty hands the paint was lifting off of the surface. Simply put the surface was compromised by the oil and other things on peoples hands. But nooooo the painter swore it was bad paint. Bad product! Perfect everywhere else but bad paint where he neglected to wipe down and sand the areas where buildup from human touch was especially significant. So after listening 2 hours, I simply gave him 5 gallons of paint. He paints the entire school system so 5 gallons was a small price to pay. He saved his ego, I saved his business. I know, he knows, everybody now really knows what happened. But the paint mfg was the whipping boy that day.
Sometimes I give the customer new paint as the they are using alot of the product, or loyal to the line, or influential in the specing the paint. But I swear its in the prep. Almost always is........almost always is.
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Re: Anyone ever spray PPG Omni? Help!
[Re: Mr T2U]
#164900
12/11/08 01:19 AM
12/11/08 01:19 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,572 Jacksonville Florida
elitecustombody
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,572
Jacksonville Florida
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Quote:
i am a PPG certified painter for more than 25 years. i really haven't had ANY problems with PPG paints. if OMNI clear coat falls off in sheets why hasn't it on my car painted over 6 years ago. you must have slammed the base coat on WAY to fast or waited to long before clear coating.
the problems with the base coats being to thin is because the older colors were not reformulated for base coat just converted over to base coat. when this happens they take the single stage formula and add the clear tint them add base coat binders. when they do that it has 2X as much clear tint in the formula than if it were single stage color.
please read my post a bit closer, I said that I've seen few cars at my brother's shop, I do not use PPG watered down paint ,OMNI garbage or anything that has "PPG" label on it,
to me it seems the cause of delamination is wrong binders that are not compatible with the clearcoat,or OMNI clearcoat is not compatible with other paint brands,which I think my brother's shop were trying to use at the time of failure
to the OP, if you're trying to save a buck,look into Matrix paint line, nothing can touch it for the coverage,ease of use,oh and the price
http://www.matrixsystem.com/index.php
Stefan
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Re: Anyone ever spray PPG Omni? Help!
[Re: gomangoRTSE]
#164901
12/11/08 01:31 AM
12/11/08 01:31 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,572 Jacksonville Florida
elitecustombody
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Jacksonville Florida
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the cars I was speaking of have been prepped pretty well with 320 grit,color tinted catalized sealer was used then basecoat applied and withing 25-30 minutes clearcoat was sprayed, the sealer and basecoat stayed on the car just fine, it's the clear that just peeled off in huge sheets, I'm ot talking about small patches, but rather sheets like a squre foot or two at a time,the cars looked like they had custom satin/flat paint jobs, after contacting the distributor, they asked if they were using adhesion promoter, lol, ask any painter, if he ever uses adhesion promoter between base and clear,I know I never had any adhesion issues between base and clear that made me start using adhesion promoter,no matter what paintline or clear I use
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Re: Anyone ever spray PPG Omni? Help!
[Re: elitecustombody]
#164902
12/11/08 09:21 AM
12/11/08 09:21 AM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,923 new berlin wisconsin
Mr T2U
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master
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,923
new berlin wisconsin
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i have never heard of a adhesion promoter between base and clear coat eather. i think the rep was giving you a tall tale. i think your problem with the clear delaminating from the base coat was using two incompatible products from different manufacturers. if a body shop is DUMB enough to use products from different manufacturers in there paint jobs they deserve all the problems they get. you should ALWAYS use products from the same manufacturer to garentee the products will be compatible with each other and you can have the manufacturer stand behind the products. if it wasn't a incompatibility problem you had a problem of applying the base coat to dry. when you do that the paint can't chemically stick to the surface underneath. it's like trying to apply paint with a layer of dust, that can blow off with air pressure, between coats of paint.
perception is 90% of reality
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Re: Anyone ever spray PPG Omni? Help!
[Re: Mr T2U]
#164903
12/11/08 10:02 AM
12/11/08 10:02 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,572 Jacksonville Florida
elitecustombody
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,572
Jacksonville Florida
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let me clear that up for you AGAIN, theese were NOT MY cars or cars of my customers and have NOTHING to do with my shop,MY BROTHER'S SHOP was doing the work, NOT my shop! And the guys who painted those cars are actually very experienced painters and can paint a side of a bus and it'll look like glass without orangepeel or sags ,they can take most of the so-called painters on theese boards to school FYI,most paintlines actually have a mid-coat adhesion promoter,if you actually were going by all the instructions on tech sheets you might actually come across it ,if you actually read them Stefan
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Re: Anyone ever spray PPG Omni? Help!
[Re: mopargem]
#164910
12/11/08 11:18 PM
12/11/08 11:18 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,535 Canuckville
68Cbarge
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,535
Canuckville
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I am using single stage Omni I mix it 8 4 1 paint,hardener,and reducer respectively. I am painting as much as myself on the car (door jams,firewall,etc.) I have no problems with the product at all as long as I pay attention to what I am doing. I usually goof up more than blaming the product. The real paint job on the car will be done by a pro using their preferred brand in a base/clear.
'68 Newport Custom Barge on a Budget!! BOAB 1973 Satellite WAGON! 318- 3 on the tree!! 2008 Chrysler 300c HEMI!
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