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Re: Gen3 Guys...The Bar has been raised!
[Re: MattW]
#1642830
07/07/14 08:36 PM
07/07/14 08:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,255
Canada
WO23Coronet
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,255
Canada
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There are 468" engines running around with Thiteks flowing over 400 at .600 lift already. I think these heads are for the 25lb+ boost club.
With what block? They even said the 6.4 block they didn't like going to 440 cubes...
Flow is flow, but torque is king and going from a 512 I currently have would seem like the wrong direction for me anyways.
The 6.4 has a bore of 4.09. So add 4.25 stroke and you have a 437 Cid. With a .010 over bore.
The HellCat make 700 HP with a blower. Stock 6.4 block.
IMO the block has to be better than that. 
Matt
Isn't the issue with going to the 440" range is the CH of the piston gets very short and you run out of room. You also get bad side loading and start eating pistons. Someone really needs to make a tall deck GenIII
the 500-600 HP failures are due to the thin ringlands......1000HP junkyard 5.3's are a time bomb.....Read an article where a guy was doing up nitrous JY 5.3's in a Fox Mustang and went through 3 of them before he stepped up and built a proper engine. I know guys do it and they're stronger than GenIII's in factory form but the indestructible JY 5.3 story gets stretched more and more everytime, 2000HP JY 5.3's are just around the corner
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Re: Gen3 Guys...The Bar has been raised!
[Re: STEFF]
#1642832
07/08/14 12:49 AM
07/08/14 12:49 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,943
Melbourne.....Oz-land
Moparmal
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,943
Melbourne.....Oz-land
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My guess is, with the availability of these billet heads, a billet block is got to be around the corner. And again, those kind of parts aren't for a street/strip car or the budget minded. The people that will buy these heads will not be nickle - diming the power plant they go on. They'll be all-out, no expense spared, max effort motors.
All the more reason to be up-front with wahat these heads can actually do.
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Re: Gen3 Guys...The Bar has been raised!
[Re: Moparmal]
#1642833
07/08/14 01:54 AM
07/08/14 01:54 AM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
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Really agree with what is said here, a tall deck Gen III could be a world dominating beast. Only problem I see besides expensive intakes to go along with them is them fitting in our cars. Mine is tight as you know what now....
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: Gen3 Guys...The Bar has been raised!
[Re: 72Swinger]
#1642834
07/08/14 02:46 AM
07/08/14 02:46 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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These are well over what I want or need but its nice that someone put the money and effort to do it... its gonna take some serious cubes or SERIOUS rpm to make this efficient 
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Re: Gen3 Guys...The Bar has been raised!
[Re: WO23Coronet]
#1642835
07/08/14 10:47 AM
07/08/14 10:47 AM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
MattW
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
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Quote:
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There are 468" engines running around with Thiteks flowing over 400 at .600 lift already. I think these heads are for the 25lb+ boost club.
With what block? They even said the 6.4 block they didn't like going to 440 cubes...
Flow is flow, but torque is king and going from a 512 I currently have would seem like the wrong direction for me anyways.
The 6.4 has a bore of 4.09. So add 4.25 stroke and you have a 437 Cid. With a .010 over bore.
The HellCat make 700 HP with a blower. Stock 6.4 block.
IMO the block has to be better than that.
Matt
Isn't the issue with going to the 440" range is the CH of the piston gets very short and you run out of room. You also get bad side loading and start eating pistons. Someone really needs to make a tall deck GenIII
the 500-600 HP failures are due to the thin ringlands......1000HP junkyard 5.3's are a time bomb.....Read an article where a guy was doing up nitrous JY 5.3's in a Fox Mustang and went through 3 of them before he stepped up and built a proper engine. I know guys do it and they're stronger than GenIII's in factory form but the indestructible JY 5.3 story gets stretched more and more everytime, 2000HP JY 5.3's are just around the corner
So a tall deck GenIII with a max bore of 4.25.and 4.25 stroke 454 Cid. 
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Re: Gen3 Guys...The Bar has been raised!
[Re: WO23Coronet]
#1642837
07/09/14 09:37 AM
07/09/14 09:37 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,145
Melbourne , Australia
LA360
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,145
Melbourne , Australia
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Billet heads seem to be preferred for longevity with boosted engines, and you're not limited with your design.
Flow figures sell heads to the average punter, high end head porting shops don't supply flow figures generally. People don't buy off them because they want impressive flow numbers, they want heads that work. Try getting flow figures from CFE and the like.
Last edited by LA360; 07/09/14 09:39 AM.
Alan Jones
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Re: Gen3 Guys...The Bar has been raised!
[Re: Moparmal]
#1642839
07/09/14 01:24 PM
07/09/14 01:24 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,578
sweden
1Fast340
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,578
sweden
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So you are saying that flow figures dont indicate how a head performs at specific lift Al?
How else can you tell if they " work"?
simply put everyone and there brother claims that there flowbench is a stingy one or one that makes people cry and that everyone elses heads flow less when put on there stingy/happy bench.. its BS basicly.
i think the chops that wont list numbers are just inteligent and by doning so avoid most of the windowlickers attention or intrest in BS mail and phonecalls.
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Re: Gen3 Guys...The Bar has been raised!
[Re: 1Fast340]
#1642840
07/09/14 01:36 PM
07/09/14 01:36 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
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4.185x4.25 stroke is a 468. I know I would'nt buy a new aluminum Gen III block and machine it right to max bore though right out of the gate. The 4.125x4.00 combo is what I believe the crate 426's are and that seems to be a great combo. My engine is just a measly 4.065x4.05 combo with some soon to be ported 6.1 heads. As long as it breaks 500hp at the wheels im good.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: Gen3 Guys...The Bar has been raised!
[Re: 72Swinger]
#1642841
07/09/14 04:44 PM
07/09/14 04:44 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
MattW
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
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Quote:
4.185x4.25 stroke is a 468. I know I would'nt buy a new aluminum Gen III block and machine it right to max bore though right out of the gate. The 4.125x4.00 combo is what I believe the crate 426's are and that seems to be a great combo. My engine is just a measly 4.065x4.05 combo with some soon to be ported 6.1 heads. As long as it breaks 500hp at the wheels im good.
I think my math is wrong. Bore x stroke x 3.14 x 8 = Cid?
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Re: Gen3 Guys...The Bar has been raised!
[Re: MattW]
#1642842
07/09/14 06:51 PM
07/09/14 06:51 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,684
W. Kentucky
justinp61
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,684
W. Kentucky
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Quote:
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4.185x4.25 stroke is a 468. I know I would'nt buy a new aluminum Gen III block and machine it right to max bore though right out of the gate. The 4.125x4.00 combo is what I believe the crate 426's are and that seems to be a great combo. My engine is just a measly 4.065x4.05 combo with some soon to be ported 6.1 heads. As long as it breaks 500hp at the wheels im good.
I think my math is wrong. Bore x stroke x 3.14 x 8 = Cid?
I use bore X bore X stroke X .7854 X the number of cylinders.
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Re: Gen3 Guys...The Bar has been raised!
[Re: 1Fast340]
#1642843
07/09/14 08:11 PM
07/09/14 08:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,943
Melbourne.....Oz-land
Moparmal
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,943
Melbourne.....Oz-land
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Quote:
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So you are saying that flow figures dont indicate how a head performs at specific lift Al?
How else can you tell if they " work"?
simply put everyone and there brother claims that there flowbench is a stingy one or one that makes people cry and that everyone elses heads flow less when put on there stingy/happy bench.. its BS basicly.
i think the chops that wont list numbers are just inteligent and by doning so avoid most of the windowlickers attention or intrest in BS mail and phonecalls.
Thats all very well - but how do you tell if one product performs better than another without data to compare them?
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Re: Gen3 Guys...The Bar has been raised!
[Re: Moparmal]
#1642845
07/10/14 02:48 PM
07/10/14 02:48 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,578
sweden
1Fast340
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,578
sweden
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
So you are saying that flow figures dont indicate how a head performs at specific lift Al?
How else can you tell if they " work"?
simply put everyone and there brother claims that there flowbench is a stingy one or one that makes people cry and that everyone elses heads flow less when put on there stingy/happy bench.. its BS basicly.
i think the chops that wont list numbers are just inteligent and by doning so avoid most of the windowlickers attention or intrest in BS mail and phonecalls.
Thats all very well - but how do you tell if one product performs better than another without data to compare them?
just noticed my spelling in the previous post is even worse than usual lol thanks for actualy reading it 
when it comes to shops that are actualy high end enough to make billetheads they will most certainly already have a good enough reputation that those that can afford the parts dont need to be assured by some bogus flownumbers adn will trust the shops good reputation 
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Re: Gen3 Guys...The Bar has been raised!
[Re: Moparmal]
#1642848
07/11/14 01:22 PM
07/11/14 01:22 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,578
sweden
1Fast340
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,578
sweden
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OK...So its like trusting a pro engine builder - you trust what they're doing is right?
if i doubt a "pro enginebuilders reputaion a bunch of numbers on a website wont make him more trustworthy. and as we all know we dont race flowbenches.
here is a fine example of another somewhat wellknown shop that dont seem to show any flownumbers and for some reason i believe they sell a few heads anyway
http://store.trackerdesigns.com/Merchant...=Cylinder_Heads
as i said before no need for advertising a bunch of numbers if you are good enough at what you are doing. and it probably keeps som of the retards and windowlickers away.
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