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Re: Fuel Pressure Regulator w/ Return to Help Vapor Lock
[Re: Challenger 1]
#1628261
06/12/14 04:06 AM
06/12/14 04:06 AM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,592
None
71rm23
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,592
None
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Quote:
Bummer it wasn't the push rod.
It bolts to the fuel pump, like I said above. All barbed fittings and rubber hoses.
One is suction and the smaller the return. The upper line is my gas tank vent, it'll connect to the breather on the valve cover. Get it??
Gary:
Can you post a picture of the lines hooked up in the engine compartment? Ill be doing that part soon. I only have 2 lines under my hood(if my mind serves me right) with new stainless. My car is a 71 RR.
Thanks!
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Re: Fuel Pressure Regulator w/ Return to Help Vapor Lock
[Re: DAYCLONA]
#1628263
06/15/14 05:08 PM
06/15/14 05:08 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
cjskotni
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
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Ok guys here is an update. I got a reproduction hemi fuel pump (3/8" inlet) and basically replicated the factory setup. I had to rework the hard line from the vapor separator to the carburetor but I think I got a working solution. I am not crazy about running a rubber hose right around the distributor.  I measured the fuel return orifice with a set of drill bits and found it right at 7/64" which comes out to ~.102 inches. Doing the math, this comes out to around 12.2% of the cross section of the main 5/16" outlet. Would this be too large or am I ok? I pulled the sending unit and it looks brand new in every way. Sock is perfect and no corrosion anywhere. I had to re-open the return nipple to plumb in my line when it arrives this week. Once I have the return line and the AN to 5/16" nipple, I should be able to start testing this out. Is there anything else I should do while the car is 'down' to help combat this possible vapor lock? Thanks for the help so far.   
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Re: Fuel Pressure Regulator w/ Return to Help Vapor Lock
[Re: cjskotni]
#1628264
06/15/14 06:30 PM
06/15/14 06:30 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 12,291
Kent, Wa
340SHORTY
Truck Nut
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Truck Nut
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 12,291
Kent, Wa
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I hear a .050/.060 opening is optimal
I am truckless..
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Re: Fuel Pressure Regulator w/ Return to Help Vapor Lock
[Re: cjskotni]
#1628267
08/02/14 09:21 PM
08/02/14 09:21 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
cjskotni
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
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Well guys here is a update as I finally made some progress after actually having a free day to sit down and work on this. I had custom bent a 5/16 hard line from the vapor separator outlet to the carb inlet and had everything ready to go. Well I go to put the alternator on and sure enough that line running up the side of the WP housing was making it where I couldn't rotate the alternator far enough down to get the belts on its pulley.  Fast forward a few weeks later and I bent another hard line and ran it in front of the WP housing and beside the distributor to connect to the carb inlet. After cranking it over off and on for about a minute, I got fuel pressure on the gauge and it fired right up! Everything seems fine so far but I won't know if the issue if fixed until I drive it an get it nice and hot. I did notice my fuel pressure gauge on the carb inlet fluctuates wildly now as in I can't see where it reads as it bounces back and forth so quickly! Is this normal now that I have a return line to bleed off the pressure from each 'pump'? It seems to just bounce back and forth while running between the entire range of 0-15psi but this could be because of needle momentum.  Do I have anything to worry about based on the fuel pressure gauge behavior? Of course it's rainy here all weekend so can't take it out of the garage yet to test.  
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Re: Fuel Pressure Regulator w/ Return to Help Vapor Lock
[Re: cjskotni]
#1628268
08/02/14 10:26 PM
08/02/14 10:26 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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The 0-15 bounce ain't right. You might clamp the return line (gently) with a pair of pliers & see what that does to it
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Fuel Pressure Regulator w/ Return to Help Vapor Lock
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1628269
08/03/14 09:06 AM
08/03/14 09:06 AM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,426
weymouth,mass.
meepmeep70
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,426
weymouth,mass.
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Quote:
The 0-15 bounce ain't right. You might clamp the return line (gently) with a pair of pliers & see what that does to it
correct type of fuel gauge? does it bounce from start up?,i had a gauge do that once it got hot, was an liquid filled type, once hot couldn't read it, changed out to a no liquid filled all good.
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Re: Fuel Pressure Regulator w/ Return to Help Vapor Lock
[Re: meepmeep70]
#1628270
08/03/14 09:18 AM
08/03/14 09:18 AM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
cjskotni
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
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Quote:
Quote:
The 0-15 bounce ain't right. You might clamp the return line (gently) with a pair of pliers & see what that does to it
correct type of fuel gauge? does it bounce from start up?,i had a gauge do that once it got hot, was an liquid filled type, once hot couldn't read it, changed out to a no liquid filled all good.
It's the el cheapo Mr. Gasket gauge (no liquid). Yes it does this from startup and at idle. When you rev it up (out of gear) it still bounces like crazy but the upper range seems to fall to maybe 2-3 psi...again hard to tell.
I am not sure what would cause this. I have the new VS, new repro pump (from Rick E), and a brass fuel restrictor in the return line with a 1/16" hole (.0625).
Bad pump or too big of a return line????
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Re: Fuel Pressure Regulator w/ Return to Help Vapor Lock
[Re: cjskotni]
#1628271
08/16/14 12:30 PM
08/16/14 12:30 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
cjskotni
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
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I finally got the gumption to fire the Charger up and take it for a 10 mile or so drive to get a feel for the new fuel system. I went ahead and took a video of the fuel pressure gauge at idle and took a bit of a closer look. It appeared to me to jump from 0-10psi at idle so I'm guessing the actual pressure is somewhere around 5psi or so? Here is the video slowed down 8x. !!Video Here!! Outside temp is around 75 degrees so not really hot but I drove it to the gas station to fill her up (premium less than $4/gal here now :-)) and drove back home. In the garage I idled it about 7-8 minutes with the A/C on, cut it off for 30 minutes, and then fired back up and idled for 5 more minutes with the A/C on. So far so good...car ran beautifully and acted like it wanted to pull itself down the highway.  Can any of you guys running the factory type vapor separator and return line setup comment on my pressure reading? Does this look 'normal' for my setup? Thanks guys!
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Re: Fuel Pressure Regulator w/ Return to Help Vapor Lock
[Re: cjskotni]
#1628272
08/16/14 11:08 PM
08/16/14 11:08 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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I watched the video & a light bulb came on, I have ran into that once decades ago & it was a pump (valve sealing) issue!
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Fuel Pressure Regulator w/ Return to Help Vapor Lock
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1628273
08/17/14 09:18 AM
08/17/14 09:18 AM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
cjskotni
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
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Quote:
I watched the video & a light bulb came on, I have ran into that once decades ago & it was a pump (valve sealing) issue!
This pump is brand new! I figured the pressure swings were because of the return line bleeding off pressure from each pump cycle.
Would reading that gauge while cranking the car be accurate on what it's doing while running? When I am cranking the car the needle jumps up to around 5psi and then just drops back. Once about every second which I'm guessing is from each pump cycle.
I will try to get a helper to crimp the return line and see if I can take a video of what happens to the fuel pressure.
I was just hoping somebody here has this setup and had monitored fuel pressure before and could tell me if this is normal.
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Re: Fuel Pressure Regulator w/ Return to Help Vapor Lock
[Re: cjskotni]
#1628274
08/17/14 10:49 AM
08/17/14 10:49 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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Alright, other possibilities would be that the gauge is bad or that the return line is bleeding off to much psi (dont remember how big an orifice you used but I dont think it was outrageous). yes I would crimp the return line with some pliers and a rag to protect the neoprene from the jaw serrations & that'd elim it in 1 minute. Keep us posted
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Fuel Pressure Regulator w/ Return to Help Vapor Lock
[Re: cjskotni]
#1628276
08/24/14 05:28 PM
08/24/14 05:28 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
cjskotni
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
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Ok I am hoping I can put this thread to bed soon and move on with my life... I got a buddy to crimp the return line while Charger was idling and the pressure stabilized right between 7-10 psi according to my gauge. We spent some time looking at the gauge bouncing as we slowly crimped the return line shut and it seemed the pressure would start to stabilize and rise as the line was crimped more. We also spent a lot of time staring down the gauge as the car idled and we came to the consensus that it is bouncing from 0-6 psi. I know the 7-10 psi is high but since this pump was designed for the 440-6/hemi applications, I am guessing it is designed for that return line to bleed off the excess pressure? Either way, I took the car out and drove it a good 20 miles or so in mid 80's temp day so I know it was good and hot. Even after most of that drive, I was able to give it some gas and break the tires free at 30 mph pretty easily so the engine is still pulling strong. I drove it home and parked it, let it sit for 20 minutes, and it fired up and idled fine with A/C on so this look promising.  I know you guys are probably tired of this thread but maybe somebody combatting a similar issue can make use of my experience as I have done with so many others here. 
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Re: Fuel Pressure Regulator w/ Return to Help Vapor Lock
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1628277
08/24/14 07:37 PM
08/24/14 07:37 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 596
Mass.
80fbody
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 596
Mass.
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Quote:
Quote:
Challenger1 is right on the money. The vapor separator is designed to provide a return to the tank. MY 70 Cuda 318 came a return connected to the separator.
Mopar started addressing the vapor lock problems back in the mid 1960s on the street hemi cars and other Hi Po models with the fuel filter vapor return lines. My wifes 1986 Ram 250 van has a 318 in it with this fuel filter  You can buy them at almost any parts house, buy one and try it mounted between the fuel pump and the carb. 
This is the easiest way and have had this filter on my car for years. Works great. Never had any sort of hot start problems even with locked distributor timing.
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Re: Fuel Pressure Regulator w/ Return to Help Vapor Lock
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1628279
08/25/14 12:05 AM
08/25/14 12:05 AM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 315
Ontario, Canada
RealWing
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 315
Ontario, Canada
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I soldered the return nipple on my canister and drilled to 0.045"
1970 Superbird 440-6bbl, auto
1969 Barracuda 340-4bbl, FB Formula S auto
1969 Barracuda 6.1 L Hemi, 5 speed, Convertible
2022 Can Am Spyder RTL
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