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Done! 8 3/4 pinion bearing is kicking my butt. #1624862
05/25/14 05:55 PM
05/25/14 05:55 PM
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Irving, TX
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I'm trying to install the gears in my 489 carrier. My old Sure Grip was wasted so I bought a Detroit Truetrac unit to replace it. The complete install kit came from Dr Diff. New gears were not needed because the old stuff was in great shape.

My problem comes from seating the new front pinion bearing. The new Timken bearing measures a thousandth or two larger than the shank on the pinion. However, it refuses to slide into place. I can't find any run out or taper inside the bearing or on the pinion where it seats.

I installed the rear pinion bearing and shim. The new crush sleeve was slipped over the shaft and the gear was slid into the case. After standing it up, I dropped the front bearing in place and tapped it down a bit while holding the pinion with my hand. Then, I did the same thing with the yoke. After I had the yoke deep enough to get the nut started I dumped it in the vise.

My vise was laid over so it clamped firmly on the sides of the yoke while the carrier rested on the table. The nut was spun on with a ratchet until I could not get it any tighter. I was rewarded with a pinion gear that is still rattly loose in the case.
My pneumatic impact was not able to get it down any farther.
A 48" long black pipe cheater slid over a ratchet could not get it any tighter.
It still rattles in the case.

Here's a quick video I made showing the problem:
https://www.youtube.com/v/8T8ZG5DKsi0

I have removed and installed the pinion several times. Nothing changes. The yoke stops pressing in at the same depth.
When I assembled the mess without the front bearing the yoke presses down far enough to lock the pinion in place.
The crush sleeve has not been crushed. It is still significantly longer than the old sleeve.

This is my first adventure with a 489 case. What am I doing wrong?


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: Need help. 8 3/4 pinion bearing is kicking my butt. [Re: feets] #1624863
05/25/14 06:26 PM
05/25/14 06:26 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,835
Kirkland, Washington
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I wasn't able to watch your vid, but I'm guessing the bearing is reaching the crush sleeve and you just haven't begun to crush it. It takes a LOT of force to start it.

When you assemble the pinion, sleeve, and bearing OUT of the case does the bearing slide on till it hits the sleeve?

Wow. Just wow. [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #1624864
05/25/14 09:04 PM
05/25/14 09:04 PM
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I spoke with Goody and several of my car friends about this issue. Some said that certain differentials need up to 600 lb/ft to start the crush on the sleeve. Goody said he bananna'd a 3/4" breaker on a Jeep's crush sleeve.

Those conversations (along with a heavy load of frustration) made me want to try it again.

My vise is bolted to a metal table. The table itself has been reinforced with 2x6 lumber to distribute heavy loads on the vise. The lower shelf is loaded with cylinder heads and other cast iron pieces. The surface of the table is also loaded with several hundred pounds of stuff that was hidden from view by some cardboard when I made the video. As you can see in that video the table was still moving quite a bit. To eliminate the problem I grabbed my floor jack and used it to ram a piece of bar stock into the table under the vise.

Once the table was secure I picked up the 4' black pipe cheater bar and went all caveman on the pinion nut.
It started to move, slowly at first but it got easier.

NOPE!

I stripped the threads off the old pinion nut.

I pulled it off, cleaned up the mess, and grabbed the new pinion nut. I wasn't going to let this stupid thing get the best of me!

New nut spun on, vise supported, cheater in place, and 230 lbs of gorilla hanging off the bar. It budged a wee bit then...

*POW*

I managed to twist the yoke out of the vise.

That thing was really starting to piss me off.

Reset AGAIN. I made sure the yoke was set deeply in the vise and TIGHT. I picked up my ratchet, looked at it, and decided it had just become a sacrifice to the lifetime warranty gods.

This time, before I pulled, I cleared the floor behind me. Something was going to give and when it did, I wanted a relatively safe place for my body to land. If this thing killed me, and it was likely to do so, I wanted my mother to be able to arrange an open casket service.

The socket was put in place with the A in USA on top. I put the ratchet handle about 20 degrees past vertical, and slid the cheater pipe in place. To give the ratchet a fair chance to survive, I began a slow pull on the pipe. As I applied more torque the ratchet began to flex. The long hard pull was severe enough that my arms began to spasm from muscle fatigue. When I finally relaxed, I checked the socket. The A in USA had rolled from the 12 o'clock position around to 1:00 or so.

I checked the play, reset, and did it again.

And again.

And again.

The slop gradually went away. The pinion now turns with about 25 in/b of effort.

The ratchet survived. Kinda. The only reason it's not a boomerang is because I slid the pipe all the way to the head of the ratchet. It was far too much torque to apply on the end of the handle. I did notice that the head is a tiny bit looser than it was before I started this. The low impact pull stretched the head a bit but the guts didn't fail.

Strangely, when the crush sleeve started to deform it did not get much lighter to pull. The effort was still high. My 24" breaker bar wasn't enough and I had to keep the cheater bar in play.

I don't know what Motive Gear made that crush sleeve out of but it is some mighty strong stuff.

I'm beat. My arms are fatigued. Both wrists hurt. Even my legs are a bit tired. I haven't got a clue how much torque I applied to that well lubed nut but rest assured it was a LOT more than what it took to put 440 lb/ft on the centerlock wheel nuts on a Porsche.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: Wow. Just wow. [Re: feets] #1624865
05/25/14 09:07 PM
05/25/14 09:07 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,835
Kirkland, Washington
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Yep! They can be a bear. But you won!!!
Last one I did I literally used a six foot cheater pipe.

Re: Wow. Just wow. [Re: feets] #1624866
05/25/14 09:33 PM
05/25/14 09:33 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,779
Mt.Gilead, Ohio
OhioMopar Offline
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The last one I had put together used a solid spacer in place of the crush sleeve.


1969 Dart GTS 340
1969 Super Bee X9 N-96
1969 Coronet R/T X9 N-96
2015 Dodge Dart GT
2019 Ram 2500 Big Horn.
Looking for the original block for my Bee. The last 4 are 7449
Re: Wow. Just wow. [Re: OhioMopar] #1624867
05/25/14 09:49 PM
05/25/14 09:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
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Irving, TX
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I was really thinking about ordering one of those today.

I really needed to get the car put back together so I pressed on.

Now I really don't want to get out there and finish the job. I wasted 4 hours jacking with that stupid thing thinking I had screwed something up.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: Wow. Just wow. [Re: feets] #1624868
05/25/14 09:50 PM
05/25/14 09:50 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,779
Mt.Gilead, Ohio
OhioMopar Offline
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I'm gonna have to mess with one soon.


1969 Dart GTS 340
1969 Super Bee X9 N-96
1969 Coronet R/T X9 N-96
2015 Dodge Dart GT
2019 Ram 2500 Big Horn.
Looking for the original block for my Bee. The last 4 are 7449
Re: Wow. Just wow. [Re: OhioMopar] #1624869
05/25/14 09:55 PM
05/25/14 09:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
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Irving, TX
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Get the spacer pack and pretend you never heard of a crush tube.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: Wow. Just wow. [Re: feets] #1624870
05/25/14 09:58 PM
05/25/14 09:58 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,779
Mt.Gilead, Ohio
OhioMopar Offline
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That's the plan...


1969 Dart GTS 340
1969 Super Bee X9 N-96
1969 Coronet R/T X9 N-96
2015 Dodge Dart GT
2019 Ram 2500 Big Horn.
Looking for the original block for my Bee. The last 4 are 7449
Re: Done! 8 3/4 pinion bearing is kicking my butt. [Re: feets] #1624871
05/25/14 09:59 PM
05/25/14 09:59 PM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 77
South
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Glad to lend a hand


1973 340 'Cuda 2013 Mustang GT
Re: Done! 8 3/4 pinion bearing is kicking my butt. [Re: Squirrel_Cat] #1624872
05/25/14 10:06 PM
05/25/14 10:06 PM
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Irving, TX
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Quote:

Glad to lend a hand





At what? Kicking my butt?

How did you get to the front of THAT line?





We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: Wow. Just wow. [Re: feets] #1624873
05/25/14 10:10 PM
05/25/14 10:10 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375
SoCal
MuuMuu101 Offline
I got lucky at Woodward!
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Quote:

Get the spacer pack and pretend you never heard of a crush tube.




What's a crush tube?

Re: Wow. Just wow. [Re: MuuMuu101] #1624874
05/25/14 11:04 PM
05/25/14 11:04 PM
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Irving, TX
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My reward for all that work is complete disassembly for a thinner pinion shim.

8155689-IMAG1335-1.jpg (155 downloads)

We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: Wow. Just wow. [Re: feets] #1624875
05/25/14 11:07 PM
05/25/14 11:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
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Chilliwack B.C. Canada
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I always stretch the old crush sleeve with a hammer over pipe and use that for setup. Then when the setups right I put in the new crush sleeve. There's funner jobs.

Sheldon

Re: Wow. Just wow. [Re: feets] #1624876
05/25/14 11:07 PM
05/25/14 11:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 104,346
Garden Grove, CA
OzHemi Offline
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Look on the bright side, at least it didn't break your vise.

Re: Wow. Just wow. [Re: OzHemi] #1624877
05/25/14 11:30 PM
05/25/14 11:30 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375
SoCal
MuuMuu101 Offline
I got lucky at Woodward!
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Posts: 12,375
SoCal
Quote:

Look on the bright side, at least it didn't break your vise.




Or your 48" cheater bar...

Re: Wow. Just wow. [Re: OzHemi] #1624878
05/25/14 11:36 PM
05/25/14 11:36 PM
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Irving, TX
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Quote:

Look on the bright side, at least it didn't break your vise.





This is probably the hardest I've worked that thing.

For a cheap Harbor Freight vise it's done fairly well.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: Wow. Just wow. [Re: OzHemi] #1624879
05/25/14 11:41 PM
05/25/14 11:41 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 602
Portage Wisconsin
Lou_Steger Offline
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When I redid mine I used the old sleeve to set the pinion depth. Check the pinion resistance and tighten to that spec while setting the shim pack. I made a rectangular plate to hold the pinion in my vise while I torqued the pinion nut. Using ARP thread lube made torqueing the nut much easier.

Re: Wow. Just wow. [Re: feets] #1624880
05/25/14 11:55 PM
05/25/14 11:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 104,346
Garden Grove, CA
OzHemi Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

Look on the bright side, at least it didn't break your vise.





This is probably the hardest I've worked that thing.

For a cheap Harbor Freight vise it's done fairly well.




Too bad it won't fit in a flat rate box...

Re: Wow. Just wow. [Re: OzHemi] #1624881
05/25/14 11:56 PM
05/25/14 11:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,068
Irving, TX
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That old timer won't swing like the one I use.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
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