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Car stalls on hard braking #1600917 03/30/14 11:53 PM 03/30/14 11:53 PM
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA Kern Dog OP Striving for excellence
Kern Dog OP Striving for excellence Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA	Hey guys, I'm getting the car ready for the drive to Van Nuys for the Spring Fling and while the car runs great, it has developed a nagging issue. It wants to stall on hard braking. The carburetor is a Grant VS 850. The sight plugs on the side show the fuel level to be right in the middle when sitting and idling. I thought it could have been a fuel pressure problem, so I changed the Holley for a Carter pump. I still have to two foot it on a quick stop. I plan to install some better front brake pads tomorrow which I guess will only worsen the stalling. It idles at 1100 and at 800-850 in gear. I can sit idling in gear and it has no tendency to stall. I have a vacuum pump to power the brakes. The timing is set to 20 initial and 34 total. The car runs absolutely great except for this. What can cause this other than the float level ?

Re: Car stalls on hard braking [Re: Kern Dog] #1600918 03/31/14 12:01 AM 03/31/14 12:01 AM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 7,664 IN A ahy master
ahy master A Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 7,664 IN	Did this start with the vacuum pump install? They typically have check valves so the pump won't "suck" from the carb/manifold. As a diagnostic, you could cap and plug all connections from the carb or manifold to the vacuum system and give it a try.

Re: Car stalls on hard braking [Re: ahy] #1600919 03/31/14 12:58 AM 03/31/14 12:58 AM
Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,271 Vista, California 6 67Satty pro stock
67Satty pro stock 6 Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,271 Vista, California	Try a hose on the float bowl vent tubes. It could be gushing a little bit of fuel splash out of them and into the throat of the carb when you brake hard.

Re: Car stalls on hard braking [Re: Kern Dog] #1600920 03/31/14 01:24 AM 03/31/14 01:24 AM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska	Is the level supposed to be in the middle of the sight glass(es). I ain't a Holley guy but I had always thought that with them at the bottom was correct where you had to slightly rock the eng to get a slight bit of spillage. You might take out the idle mix screws & shoot a 2 second blast of starting fluid into each hole then replace the screws (count the # of turns so you can quickly replace em exactly where they were). Holler how it goes live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: Car stalls on hard braking [Re: RapidRobert] #1600921 03/31/14 01:29 AM 03/31/14 01:29 AM
Joined: Sep 2004 Posts: 6,906 IL, Aurora A ademon master
ademon master A Joined: Sep 2004 Posts: 6,906 IL, Aurora	Quote: Is the level supposed to be in the middle of the sight glass(es). I ain't a Holley guy but I had always thought that with them at the bottom was correct where you had to slightly rock the eng to get a slight bit of spillage. You might take out the idle mix screws & shoot a 2 second blast of starting fluid into each hole then replace the screws (count the # of turns so you can quickly replace em exactly where they were). Holler how it goes That's what i thought at the bottom of the plug or just barely dribbling out at idle on level ground. That's what i have read on Holleys since day one!

Re: Car stalls on hard braking [Re: ademon] #1600922 03/31/14 01:35 AM 03/31/14 01:35 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,570 San Francisco Ca SCATPK master
SCATPK master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,570 San Francisco Ca	Quote: Quote: Is the level supposed to be in the middle of the sight glass(es). I ain't a Holley guy but I had always thought that with them at the bottom was correct where you had to slightly rock the eng to get a slight bit of spillage. You might take out the idle mix screws & shoot a 2 second blast of starting fluid into each hole then replace the screws (count the # of turns so you can quickly replace em exactly where they were). Holler how it goes That's what i thought at the bottom of the plug or just barely dribbling out at idle on level ground. That's what i have read on Holleys since day one! Yes, the fuel should just dribble out the sides at idle. As said that is how I was taught and set my Holley carbs up.

Re: Car stalls on hard braking [Re: SCATPK] #1600923 03/31/14 02:04 AM 03/31/14 02:04 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 29,679 Hamtramck, PA A Alaskan_TA Fluffy Balladeer
Alaskan_TA Fluffy Balladeer A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 29,679 Hamtramck, PA	I had a '67 Barracuda that would stall at stops. The thrust bearing was the culprit, it wore out & the crankshaft was sliding forward in the block causing the engine to stall when the counterweights hit the block webbing. If you find metal shavings in your oil pan, take it apart.

Re: Car stalls on hard braking [Re: Kern Dog] #1600924 03/31/14 02:14 AM 03/31/14 02:14 AM
Joined: Mar 2013 Posts: 197 Nor-Cal L loaderpro member
loaderpro member L Joined: Mar 2013 Posts: 197 Nor-Cal	Floats too high, bottom of glass! 8095332-pomona.jpg (87 downloads)

Re: Car stalls on hard braking [Re: loaderpro] #1600925 03/31/14 03:21 AM 03/31/14 03:21 AM
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA Kern Dog OP Striving for excellence
Kern Dog OP Striving for excellence Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA	Floats too high....I wouldn't have thought that was a possible problem. I'll get back at it tomorrow.

Re: Car stalls on hard braking [Re: Kern Dog] #1600926 03/31/14 03:30 AM 03/31/14 03:30 AM
Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,173 CT GTX MATT master
GTX MATT master Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,173 CT	BG says to put the fuel level in the middle of the sight plug as I recall, Holley says the bottom. I'd suspect the vacuum pump. With the engine idling pump the brake pedal repeatedly over and over and see if the idle will change or if the car will stall. Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street

Re: Car stalls on hard braking [Re: GTX MATT] #1600927 03/31/14 04:30 AM 03/31/14 04:30 AM
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA Kern Dog OP Striving for excellence
Kern Dog OP Striving for excellence Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA	I wonder if the vacuum pump is related. The lines only go to the brake booster, not to the engine in any way. The info I have here that came with the carb does show that the fuel should be at the center of the sight glass.

Re: Car stalls on hard braking [Re: Kern Dog] #1600928 03/31/14 11:25 AM 03/31/14 11:25 AM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska	Quote: The info I have here that came with the carb does show that the fuel should be at the center of the sight glass. You might lower the fuel level termporarily for a check just to see if fuel sloshing is the culprit or if it is something else. Then you can easily return the floats to where they are now. The more I think about it the more I think it definitely is carb related live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: Car stalls on hard braking [Re: RapidRobert] #1600929 03/31/14 04:17 PM 03/31/14 04:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md 3 383man Too Many Posts
383man Too Many Posts 3 Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md	Quote: Quote: The info I have here that came with the carb does show that the fuel should be at the center of the sight glass. You might lower the fuel level termporarily for a check just to see if fuel sloshing is the culprit or if it is something else. Then you can easily return the floats to where they are now. The more I think about it the more I think it definitely is carb related I agree with this as I have seen high float level cause stalling like that alot. Also as "67Satty" said it wont hurt to put a small rubber type hose across the bowl vents so fuel cant slosh out the bowl vent into the carb. Many racers do this so fuel dont sloch out when they yank the front end up. Ron Last edited by 383man; 03/31/14 04:19 PM.

Re: Car stalls on hard braking [Re: 383man] #1600930 03/31/14 05:16 PM 03/31/14 05:16 PM
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 855 ontario canada kingston aspenrt360 super stock
aspenrt360 super stock Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 855 ontario canada kingston	yep sounds a lot like float level to me 2013 Chrysler 300 touring 1974 Dodge Charger SE. 360-727-8.75-3.23 sure grip 1972 Dodge Dart Swinger 1995 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4

Re: Car stalls on hard braking [Re: aspenrt360] #1600931 03/31/14 05:22 PM 03/31/14 05:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,931 P Paul_Fancsali master
Paul_Fancsali master P Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,931	Set mine exactly on edge sight glass edge never stalls and never runs out on top. Have to rock the car to get gas out of it, done this for close to 20 years By the way if using the plastic floats be sure there is a surge spring on them if not you will get the same problem your having Last edited by Paul_Fancsali; 03/31/14 05:23 PM.

Re: Car stalls on hard braking [Re: 383man] #1600932 03/31/14 08:33 PM 03/31/14 08:33 PM
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA Kern Dog OP Striving for excellence
Kern Dog OP Striving for excellence Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA	I will try lowering the float level. Regarding the carb vents, do you mean to put a vacuum line connecting the primary and secondary vents? I just put in a new Auto Meter liquid filled fuel pressure guage. The Mr gasket guage had an erratic needle. It has 11 lbs of pressure. I ran the car yesterday and had no fuel overflow problems but I wonder how far I am pushing my luck. I've never used a regulator and am not sure how to plumb one, where to place the components, etc.

Re: Car stalls on hard braking [Re: Kern Dog] #1600933 03/31/14 09:23 PM 03/31/14 09:23 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska	Quote: It has 11 lbs of pressure. I do believe we have found the problem live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: Car stalls on hard braking [Re: Kern Dog] #1600934 03/31/14 09:23 PM 03/31/14 09:23 PM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours Supercuda About to go away
Supercuda About to go away Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours	Quote: I will try lowering the float level. Regarding the carb vents, do you mean to put a vacuum line connecting the primary and secondary vents? I just put in a new Auto Meter liquid filled fuel pressure guage. The Mr gasket guage had an erratic needle. It has 11 lbs of pressure. I ran the car yesterday and had no fuel overflow problems but I wonder how far I am pushing my luck. I've never used a regulator and am not sure how to plumb one, where to place the components, etc. Yeah, 11psi is too much, Holley recommends 7 psi max, not sure what your carb manufacturer recommends though.. Your vent still need to be vented, what you are doing is putting a hose over both of the metal tube vents in a sort of arc, then at the peak of the arc you will cut a notch in the hose to allow it to vent and also raise the opening up. http://www.rockcrawler.com/techreports/holley_truck_avenger/index.asp They use a metal tube, but you get the idea. They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.

Re: Car stalls on hard braking [Re: RapidRobert] #1600935 03/31/14 10:49 PM 03/31/14 10:49 PM
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA Kern Dog OP Striving for excellence
Kern Dog OP Striving for excellence Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA	Quote: Quote: It has 11 lbs of pressure. I do believe we have found the problem It was doing the same thing with the Holley pump that maxed out at 7 lbs. I am tempted to put in a regulator with a return line to the tank. I seem to remember that some guys use the 1/4" vent line as their return line, right? It is either plumb in a regulator or put the Holley pump back in for the trip.

Re: Car stalls on hard braking [Re: Kern Dog] #1600936 03/31/14 11:36 PM 03/31/14 11:36 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska	Even at 7 psi showing (actual may even be higher) that might be too much. Gonna be interesting to see how it acts when you reg it down. We gotta get this live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

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