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Mild 360 Carb Suggestions
#1596919
03/22/14 09:00 PM
03/22/14 09:00 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 352
McHenry, Illinois
RAUPLEMINZE454
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 352
McHenry, Illinois
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Hey guys, The time has come to select a carb for the Demon. The car will mostly be a cruiser with occasional strip time. Here are the engine specs: 360 Plate Honed-Decked Square .040 over KB #107 Flat top pistons File Fit Rings 5/64's Stock Rods Resized w/ARP Bolts Stock 360 Crank 010/010 Clevite Bearings New Standard Volume Pump Stock Pan w/New Pickup Comp Double Roller Timing Set Mopar Chain Tensioner Mopar Performance Hydraulic Roller Cam 230-234 @ 050 464 478 Lift 107 LSA Mopar Stamped Rockers 1.5 Ratio New SBI Lifters "587" 360 Heads 1.88-1.60 Valve Crane Springs, B Ported and Gasket Matched 74 cc The engine is backed by a 727 and 8-3/4. Here is the carb that the builder suggested, any feedback? Would I have to hook up the manual choke or will the carb function without it hooked up? http://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-1805/overview/I was guessing that a 650 cfm carb would be a good size for the engine. Thoughts? Other suggestions? Thanks in advance, Brian
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Re: Mild 360 Carb Suggestions
[Re: RAUPLEMINZE454]
#1596920
03/22/14 09:15 PM
03/22/14 09:15 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 12,291
Kent, Wa
340SHORTY
Truck Nut
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Truck Nut
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 12,291
Kent, Wa
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A nother darn E Cpapper carb.  Whats your choice of intake?
Last edited by 340SHORTY; 03/22/14 09:17 PM.
I am truckless..
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Re: Mild 360 Carb Suggestions
[Re: forphorty]
#1596922
03/22/14 09:38 PM
03/22/14 09:38 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 352
McHenry, Illinois
RAUPLEMINZE454
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 352
McHenry, Illinois
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Quote:
What intake, converter and gears? Those are some weird specs for a hyd roller. Not much lift for the amount of duration. It's gonna be choppy with that 107 LSA.
Sorry,
I should have included that information. Intake is an Edelbrock RPM Air Gap. It is a 3.55 posi in an 8-3/4 and I cannot recall what the converter is. I will have to look through my notes.
Thanks,
Brian
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Re: Mild 360 Carb Suggestions
[Re: 340SHORTY]
#1596923
03/22/14 09:40 PM
03/22/14 09:40 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 352
McHenry, Illinois
RAUPLEMINZE454
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 352
McHenry, Illinois
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Quote:
A nother darn E Cpapper carb.
Whats your choice of intake?
So I take it you do not like them....Intake is an Edelbrock RPM Air Gap.
Thanks,
Brian
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Re: Mild 360 Carb Suggestions
[Re: RAUPLEMINZE454]
#1596924
03/22/14 09:47 PM
03/22/14 09:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,319
Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,319
Benton, IL.
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For a street car, I think that the new Street Demons are the best choices out there today. Certainly better than the CarterBrocks.
But you have a lot of duration on that cam, so the OOTB tuning a street carb has may not be the best for this combo.
Master, again and still
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Re: Mild 360 Carb Suggestions
[Re: DaveRS23]
#1596925
03/22/14 10:04 PM
03/22/14 10:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,826
las vegas
70AARcuda
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,826
las vegas
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Have used a eddy 600 1406 for 12 yrs now..never had a problem with it.
Had it on a similar engine...360 with kb107 with eddy aluminum heads and air gap intake..cam was a hughes 230/237 with .515/535 lift....
Get your initial timing set up around 18 to 20 degrees with total timing at 35 degrees..
on eddy carb..change out setup springs on metering rods for lower vacuum...
any carb is not going to work straight out of the box..
Tony
70 AARCuda Vitamin C
71 Dart Swinger 360 10.318 @ 128.22(10-04-14 Bakersfield)
71 Demon 360 10.666 @122.41 (01-29-17 @ Las Vegas)
71 Duster 408 (10.29 @ 127.86 3/16/19 Las Vegas)
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Re: Mild 360 Carb Suggestions
[Re: cal_gecko]
#1596929
03/23/14 07:46 AM
03/23/14 07:46 AM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,847
Oakdale CT
gdonovan
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,847
Oakdale CT
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Mild build I'd going with a 625 AFB, had one on my Duster and it worked well. All carbs will boil the fuel out sooner or later, the fuel they sell now is crap.
Best carb if this is a concern is a Street Demon TQ "clone" with the resin body.
"I think its got a hemi"
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Re: Mild 360 Carb Suggestions
[Re: RAUPLEMINZE454]
#1596931
03/23/14 12:56 PM
03/23/14 12:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,319
Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,319
Benton, IL.
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Edelbrock does a lot of development with intakes and heads and such. Their Air Gap intakes are the go-to small block intakes for most street cars. But their carbs are still the same old, and frankly, outdated tune. Why the development and improvement in intakes and not carburators? Do they feel EFI is the future?
The AFB/AVS design of carb is a good one. Heck, it's been around for 50 years and was good enough for our Hemis. But, it has not kept up with the changes in fuel and in our engine needs.
Demon, through Holley and a retired Carter engineer, has updated the Thermoquad design that works with today's fuel and with our common engine combos. Without these updates, I would not recommend that design for the same reasons I will not recommend the Edelbrocks. The original Thermoquads and the current Edelbrocks have some inherent issues that other designs do not and usually require more tuning than other choices.
For a street car, the Street Demons have features that have long been known to have advantages. Like small primaries, and stacked boosters. These features are not new. And they are generally acknowledged to have advantages for street cars. Why don't other carb builders incorporate them?
I like and use the 3310s and CarterBrock carbs. But they are old calibrations and are usually farther away from an acceptable tune for most of our milder street combos. It sure would be cool if they would update the tune on these very solid designs for today's world.
The Street Demons have led the way, maybe Holley and Edelbrock will follow suit.
Master, again and still
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Re: Mild 360 Carb Suggestions
[Re: Supercuda]
#1596933
03/23/14 01:38 PM
03/23/14 01:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,319
Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,319
Benton, IL.
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Tuning an AFB is about the most difficult of all the designs. Just look at the jet and rod chart. What a mess. And then try to find any of the basic tuning pieces locally.
To be honest, the AFB/AVS design was abandoned by Mopar 40 years ago in favor of the Thermoquad. Which has now been improved/upgraded by way of the Street Demon. That doesn't mean that the Edelbrock is a bad carb. Just that there have been improvements in carb design since then that they do not incorporate.
The fact is that the Edelbrock carbs have not had any real tuning changes or design improvements in many, many years, maybe even decades. Edelbrock has made improvements in their intakes recently, but not in their carbs.
Again, the Carter is not a bad carb. It just needs updated versions. And until that happens, there are better choices available.
Master, again and still
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Re: Mild 360 Carb Suggestions
[Re: gdonovan]
#1596935
03/23/14 03:40 PM
03/23/14 03:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,319
Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,319
Benton, IL.
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Quote:
Quote:
To be honest, the AFB/AVS design was abandoned by Mopar 40 years ago in favor of the Thermoquad.
Which was done for emissions, not performance reasons.
Emissions weren't the only reason for replacing the AVSs with Thermoquads. Emissions were playing a role, but driveability and economy also played a role. Isn't driveability a part of performance? As the fuel's and engine demands changed, so did the carbs.
My AFB's work just fine, its not rocket science.
You are right, AFBs can work just fine. And you could probably get a Bendix or Stromberg to work, too. But that doesn't change the fact that today, there are better choices out there for a street car.
In fact, you could say that today's CarterBrocks are a step backward from the AVSs of the early 70s. Today's CarterBrocks have eliminated the adjustability on the secondary air door.
And they have eliminated the third step on the metering rods. Which may be a good thing from the average tuner's point of view.
Can you imagine the size of the chart and shear number of rods it would take to tune yet another circuit? All of the carb's circuits, with the exception of the idle, are on one rod. Not the easiest approach. But yes, it is clearly doable.
Master, again and still
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Re: Mild 360 Carb Suggestions
[Re: DaveRS23]
#1596937
03/23/14 03:57 PM
03/23/14 03:57 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
Supercuda
About to go away
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About to go away
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
To be honest, the AFB/AVS design was abandoned by Mopar 40 years ago in favor of the Thermoquad.
Which was done for emissions, not performance reasons.
Emissions weren't the only reason for replacing the AVSs with Thermoquads. Emissions were playing a role, but driveability and economy also played a role. Isn't driveability a part of performance? As the fuel's and engine demands changed, so did the carbs.
My AFB's work just fine, its not rocket science.
You are right, AFBs can work just fine. And you could probably get a Bendix or Stromberg to work, too. But that doesn't change the fact that today, there are better choices out there for a street car.
In fact, you could say that today's CarterBrocks are a step backward from the AVSs of the early 70s. Today's CarterBrocks have eliminated the adjustability on the secondary air door.
And they have eliminated the third step on the metering rods. Which may be a good thing from the average tuner's point of view.
Can you imagine the size of the chart and shear number of rods it would take to tune yet another circuit? All of the carb's circuits, with the exception of the idle, are on one rod. Not the easiest approach. But yes, it is clearly doable.
Very OBVIOUS you know NOTHING about the Edelbrock carbs and damned little about AFB's.
AFB's never had a adjustable secondary air door, AVS' did.
Edelbrock's Performers are AFB based, no adjustable air door.
Edelbrock's Thunder series is AVS based and does have an adjustable air door.
AFB's had two step metering rods, with a few rare exceptions, AVS' had three step metering rods.
All Edelbrock carbs use two step metering rods. Cheaper for them and us.
Edelbrock rods and jets work in the old AFB's and can work in an AVS if you replace the metering rod cover with a flat one.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
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Re: Mild 360 Carb Suggestions
[Re: Supercuda]
#1596938
03/23/14 09:14 PM
03/23/14 09:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,319
Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,319
Benton, IL.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
To be honest, the AFB/AVS design was abandoned by Mopar 40 years ago in favor of the Thermoquad.
Which was done for emissions, not performance reasons.
Emissions weren't the only reason for replacing the AVSs with Thermoquads. Emissions were playing a role, but driveability and economy also played a role. Isn't driveability a part of performance? As the fuel's and engine demands changed, so did the carbs.
My AFB's work just fine, its not rocket science.
You are right, AFBs can work just fine. And you could probably get a Bendix or Stromberg to work, too. But that doesn't change the fact that today, there are better choices out there for a street car.
In fact, you could say that today's CarterBrocks are a step backward from the AVSs of the early 70s. Today's CarterBrocks have eliminated the adjustability on the secondary air door.
And they have eliminated the third step on the metering rods. Which may be a good thing from the average tuner's point of view.
Can you imagine the size of the chart and shear number of rods it would take to tune yet another circuit? All of the carb's circuits, with the exception of the idle, are on one rod. Not the easiest approach. But yes, it is clearly doable.
Very OBVIOUS you know NOTHING about the Edelbrock carbs and damned little about AFB's.
AFB's never had a adjustable secondary air door, AVS' did.
Edelbrock's Performers are AFB based, no adjustable air door.
Edelbrock's Thunder series is AVS based and does have an adjustable air door.
AFB's had two step metering rods, with a few rare exceptions, AVS' had three step metering rods.
All Edelbrock carbs use two step metering rods. Cheaper for them and us.
Edelbrock rods and jets work in the old AFB's and can work in an AVS if you replace the metering rod cover with a flat one.
No need to get mean, buddy.
YOU misread my post. I agree with everything you said and said so in the post. YOU just misunderstood.
Now go take a sedative.
Master, again and still
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