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46re trans surge / lock up problems?? #1596681
03/22/14 03:05 PM
03/22/14 03:05 PM
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ST clair shores MI
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moretoys Offline OP
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2000 dakota 5.9 ,4x4,3.91 gears.with 46 re trans. owned since new,trans service every 25,000 miles with mopar atf+4. has 100,000 miles on it now.
Slight throttle from about 37 mph and up to about 70 The tach will jump up / down about about 200 rpms, feel slight lugging, If I let it continue to surge, it will set a code for tcc solenoid p1740? No other codes,I let off the throttle and hit it again,usually clears up. The light has not come on in over a year.but this problem is there almost everyday now., It used to do it only on certain inclines will pulling a snowmobile trailer. (was under warranty at the time, dealer had no clue). I think the lock up is coming on too early ( i am getting better fuel economy than usual, and my rpms are a touch lower) I've called a couple trans shops in the area,non have an idea. I did check for service bulletins and there is one for a boost plate,bigger hole.
With a scan tool I watched the tps, nothing looked weird.but I know sometimes you don't see everything. This problem has been there randomly for 90,000 miles,But the past 8 months it is almost always here. all shifting is normal, alittle soft if anything,(always been)

If it ever gets above freezing,and the snow melts:
This is what I'm thinking of doing. removing the valve body, replace boost plate/cover,replace ttc solenoid and check all the springs in the valve body.
I am no trans guy, any other advise or tips??

I did disconnect the battery for a reboot,NO help,
As of yesterday NO codes. fluid still clean.time for a change again anyway. It is NOT lock up shutter, I know what that feels like.

Re: 46re trans surge / lock up problems?? [Re: moretoys] #1596682
03/22/14 03:53 PM
03/22/14 03:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,225
Park Forest, IL
slantzilla Offline
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This is a pretty well known problem with Dakotas. Replace the throttle position sensor.


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Re: 46re trans surge / lock up problems?? [Re: slantzilla] #1596683
03/22/14 04:54 PM
03/22/14 04:54 PM
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Missouri U.S.A.
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71yelladustr Offline
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Drilling or replacing the boost valve plate will help with lock up apply pressure. I have done a lot of 46RE trans repairs and I have yet to replace a lock-up of OD solenoid. When you were monitoring the TPS, did you look at the lock-up request? If it is staying on (locked) and and not toggling its probably torque converter time. I would advise installing the new style inter-locking seals on the input shaft for the lock-up circuit if you decide to put a converter in it.


392 gen III hemi on E-85 727 trans Dana 60
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Re: 46re trans surge / lock up problems?? [Re: 71yelladustr] #1596684
03/22/14 07:47 PM
03/22/14 07:47 PM
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Catskill, NY
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teflon Offline
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Quote:

Drilling or replacing the boost valve plate will help with lock up apply pressure. I have done a lot of 46RE trans repairs and I have yet to replace a lock-up of OD solenoid. When you were monitoring the TPS, did you look at the lock-up request? If it is staying on (locked) and and not toggling its probably torque converter time. I would advise installing the new style inter-locking seals on the input shaft for the lock-up circuit if you decide to put a converter in it.




What he said and I will add use steel input shaft sealing rings.

Re: 46re trans surge / lock up problems?? [Re: teflon] #1596685
03/23/14 02:25 AM
03/23/14 02:25 AM
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Park Forest, IL
slantzilla Offline
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When you get done pulling the trans and it still does it, replace the TPS.

My '00 R/T did it. Dealer wanted to replace all kinds of crap but would not guarantee it would fix the problem. I asked about it on the Dakota/Durango board and found out it is/was a well known problem that Chrysler refused to address.

Got a TPS from Otterzone and $32 later it was golden, and was still fine 150,000 miles later when I sold the truck.

I have personally seen 6 other V-6 and V-8 Dakota/Durangos fixed the same way. Dealers always act like they've never seen it before.


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Re: 46re trans surge / lock up problems?? [Re: slantzilla] #1596686
03/23/14 12:04 PM
03/23/14 12:04 PM
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Balt. Md
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383man Offline
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I saw alot of Diesel trucks do this and I had to replace alot of TPS's for it but myself I did not get many Dakota's doing it seemed it was always a diesel truck with this problem. I also had some with a bad clockspring cause it as the 5 volt feed to the speed control switches on the steering wheel shared its 5 volt feed with the TPS 5 volt feed and it would throw the TPS reading off and the PCM would not always know where the throttle pedal was from the erattic TPS reading as the 5 volt feed went through the clockspring below the steering wheel and could short in the cloclspring. I would replace the TPS first if you dont have a scanner where you can moniter the TPS and the lock-up on signal. Its alot cheaper and easier to repalce the TPS first if you are going to guess and throw parts at it. Dont mean that as a smart comment as sometimes you almost have to do that to verify a problem. Course it could be the converter or the seals as I saw that a good bit also but as said its much easier to try the TPS first. Ron

Last edited by 383man; 03/23/14 12:08 PM.
Re: 46re trans surge / lock up problems?? [Re: 383man] #1596687
03/23/14 02:00 PM
03/23/14 02:00 PM
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ST clair shores MI
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moretoys Offline OP
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I'll find a tps and see what happens. I do have a snap on scanner, and see nothing weird, then I used the chrysler wi-tech, nothing looked out of place there neither. this problem has been very intermittent for 12 years. just the last 8 months or so it's been more consistently bad. Hard to believe a bad part took so long to show it's face.

Re: 46re trans surge / lock up problems?? [Re: moretoys] #1596688
03/23/14 05:29 PM
03/23/14 05:29 PM
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Park Forest, IL
slantzilla Offline
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What is happening is the TPS is slow to respond. It will not set any codes.

When mine was doing it I was sure it was a lock-up problem. I bought the truck with 39K on it and the guy I bought it from said it had done it the whole time he had owned it too.

It can be incredibly annoying, especially when the cruise is set.


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Re: 46re trans surge / lock up problems?? [Re: slantzilla] #1596689
03/23/14 09:18 PM
03/23/14 09:18 PM
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Balt. Md
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383man Offline
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Its tuff to pick up on a scanner but I could see it on the Co-Pilot tool I had a the Dealer some years back. I would record it when it happened and then download it to the shop computer and it would show up in a graph. Then I could see the bad ones as they had gagged lines jumping all over and a good one would be a nice solid line. It does it so fast the scanner wont usually show it. Ron

Last edited by 383man; 03/23/14 09:21 PM.
Re: 46re trans surge / lock up problems?? [Re: 383man] #1596690
03/23/14 11:02 PM
03/23/14 11:02 PM
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Temecula, Ca.
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If it is the TPS and it is being commanded to cycle the TCC, you will many times only see it on a scope. A scanner will not pick up the data quick enough. A scanner only samples a minority of data then averages it before it tells you what it sees.
This is a common problem with the diesels, usually dirty battery connections,or an alternator making electrical noise. There are many aftermarket solutions to cure the problem. I have never heard of this in a Durango and I do this stuff for a living, but that is not to say it doesn't exist.
The key is to find out whether it is being commanded or not. that will tell you if it is in the trans or not.

Pat


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Re: 46re trans surge / lock up problems?? [Re: zzyzxpat] #1596691
03/24/14 01:03 AM
03/24/14 01:03 AM
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Balt. Md
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383man Offline
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Quote:

If it is the TPS and it is being commanded to cycle the TCC, you will many times only see it on a scope. A scanner will not pick up the data quick enough. A scanner only samples a minority of data then averages it before it tells you what it sees.
This is a common problem with the diesels, usually dirty battery connections,or an alternator making electrical noise. There are many aftermarket solutions to cure the problem. I have never heard of this in a Durango and I do this stuff for a living, but that is not to say it doesn't exist.
The key is to find out whether it is being commanded or not. that will tell you if it is in the trans or not.

Pat





I worked at a Dodge dealer for 24 years and I also mostly saw it in diesel trucks also. And the recorder I used was a scope pattern as thats the only way I could see it. But the recorder (Co-Pilot) was great as I did not have to try and look at it driving along I could just record it and then download it to the shop computer and look at it in the shop on the scope graph. It was a great tool and I was the only one in the dealer shop who used it. No one else even tried to learn how to use it. And I did see a fair amount of bad TPS's. Ron

Last edited by 383man; 03/24/14 01:04 AM.
Re: 46re trans surge / lock up problems?? [Re: slantzilla] #1596692
03/24/14 01:33 AM
03/24/14 01:33 AM
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Vancouver, WA
MoparMarq Offline
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Quote:

When mine was doing it I was sure it was a lock-up problem. I bought the truck with 39K on it and the guy I bought it from said it had done it the whole time he had owned it too.




Sister's '04 Jeep GC did it for 3 years, the last year or so was real bad. Granted, 42RE, not 46RE, but even so, I thought it was the TC clutch lining or TC clutch. Dialed up the pressure just slightly (fresh fluid of course), but didn't help much. Two visits to dealer and they refused to address the problem. Tech even drove it and came back and said "Yeah, it's going in and out of lockup. But it's not setting a code, so we can't do anything." The TPS finally set a code after 3 years of this crap. Replaced the TPS and problem went away.

Re: 46re trans surge / lock up problems?? [Re: MoparMarq] #1596693
03/24/14 03:34 AM
03/24/14 03:34 AM
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Balt. Md
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383man Offline
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Funny but we used to get the front wheel drive cars with the 604 trans come in sometimes on certain years complaining about a chattering about 25 to 40 mph. What happened was on that lock-up converter they would bring in in gradually and actually slip the clutch some for what they called ....Partial lock-up. But it would chatter like a clutch chatter in a stick car as this was the lock-up clutch chattering because if it did not wear in right it would do this. So we would first try to do what they called .....burnishing the lock-up clutch with the scann tool. Then when that did not fix it later we would flash the TCM controller which as far as I know just took the partial lock-up out of the opperation and then it worked like any other lock-up as it was either fully on or off after the flash and no more partial lock-up so no more chattering. Ron

Last edited by 383man; 03/24/14 03:36 AM.
Re: 46re trans surge / lock up problems?? "update" [Re: moretoys] #1596694
03/31/14 08:33 PM
03/31/14 08:33 PM
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ST clair shores MI
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moretoys Offline OP
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a new tps did NOT solve the issue. Also The engine light popped on for the first time in 16 months, same codes as always. tcc solenoid error. I was going about 60 mph, towing an aluminum trailer with a golf cart on it.(less than 1000 pounds total) when it tripped. The battery is clean and I also ran a temporary ground to the pcm. scanner still picked up nothing unusual. I'm going to borrow a drb 3 and see if that shows anything.
I want to see a problem before I do anything, I don't usually throw parts on things. Can it just be the boost plate, not releasing fluid? Like the lockup doesn't release when it should?
Transmissions is my weak area.
To be continued.

Re: 46re trans surge / lock up problems?? "update" [Re: moretoys] #1596695
03/31/14 09:09 PM
03/31/14 09:09 PM
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383man Offline
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If it throws a......TCC solenoid error I found that is usually an electrical problem in the TCC circuit. Which means the solenoid , wireing or PCM. I appoligize as I must have missed the part about that code. But that code where it says ....solenoid error seemed to always be an electrical part of that circuit because for that code to set it sees a problem in the electrical part of the solenoid circuit when the PCM activates the TCC solenoid it does not see voltage spike it looks for. If it was something else like the converter clutch lining bad or something like that the code might be .....No RPM drop at lock-up. Ron

Last edited by 383man; 03/31/14 09:16 PM.
Re: 46re trans surge / lock up problems?? "update" [Re: 383man] #1596696
04/01/14 03:28 AM
04/01/14 03:28 AM
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Missouri U.S.A.
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71yelladustr Offline
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What is the exact P-code # its setting?


392 gen III hemi on E-85 727 trans Dana 60
10.02@134
Re: 46re trans surge / lock up problems?? "update" [Re: 71yelladustr] #1596697
04/02/14 07:38 PM
04/02/14 07:38 PM
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Kissimmee Fl.
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dusturbd340W5 Offline
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in his first post
it will set a code for tcc solenoid p1740?
what you need to do is drive the vehicle with a scanner hooked up and watch what the TC rpm slippage is at when it is acting up, if the numbers are high than you most likely have a bad TC. A good TC the slippage numbers will be in the single digits.


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Re: 46re trans surge / lock up problems?? "update" [Re: dusturbd340W5] #1596698
04/02/14 11:35 PM
04/02/14 11:35 PM
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Slant is correct IMHO,

I have put literally hundreds of TPS sensors on all dodge vehicles with similar issues and fixed 99% of them. Even with that code, but on the contrary Ive also replaced a few lock/OD solonoids and fixed a few also. But for the most part the cheapest thing to try is the TPS, especially if ya use cruise a lot.

Re: 46re trans surge / lock up problems?? "update" [Re: Moparnut426] #1596699
04/03/14 01:45 AM
04/03/14 01:45 AM
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Missouri U.S.A.
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He already replaced the TPS and did NOT fix it. I think its torque converter time.


392 gen III hemi on E-85 727 trans Dana 60
10.02@134
Re: 46re trans surge / lock up problems?? "update" [Re: 71yelladustr] #1596700
04/04/14 03:36 PM
04/04/14 03:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
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Park Forest, IL
slantzilla Offline
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At least I was a cheap fix wrong.


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