Re: HIgh output alternators
[Re: NachoRT74]
#1588923
03/07/14 04:05 PM
03/07/14 04:05 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526 North Carolina
cjskotni
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Joined: Jul 2007
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Quote:
I was allmost to pull the trigger for the TuffStuff alt, but emailed them asking for iddle specs and told me their alt put at iddle around 45 amps. That retracted me on pull the trigger.
I don't need 100 amps alt max output, I need/wish 55 amps at iddle.
I'm not sure who you talked to, but their own spec shows 60 amps at idle (800 engine RPM). I think that is a bit generous as it starts to discharge slightly when my loads approach 50-55 amps when the car is idling (750 RPM). These alternators drop off fast when you lower RPM's so if you aren't idling at 800 RPM in gear, then you are already going to be lower than the advertised idle output of any alternator.
Before this I tried the 78 amp squareback, and this one is perceptibly better. I'm not going to say way better but it doesn't discharge as deeply when those electric fans go on at idle. At idle, this one seems to put out around 8-10 more amps than the 78 amp unit. This 8-10 amps make a big difference when you want to hit another accessory like lights, A/C, etc. Now with the 100 amp unit, worst case is I discharge maybe 5-10 amps when idling with EVERYTHING on which never happens. I also converted to LED lighting just about everywhere which helps on the load. I don't get the wild right swinging needle anymore when I take off after idling.
Here is a picture of the little you can see of my alternator. It's buried under heater hoses and my A/C lines...
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Re: HIgh output alternators
[Re: floridian]
#1588925
03/07/14 04:18 PM
03/07/14 04:18 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526 North Carolina
cjskotni
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Quote:
What about the Billet customs from Quality power auto.. 125 amps at idle?? Expensive but what do our cars need ( amps) at idle??
This is what I measured with clamp gauges on my 1973 Charger:
- engine ignition circuit 15 amps - electric choke 1 amp - Retro sound stereo (no external amp) < 1 amp - headlights 13 amps - brights 18 amps - electric fans 20 amps (you don't have) - A/C clutch 4 amps - HVAC blower 5-8 amps - interior/exterior/brake lighting (LED) 4-5amps
Pick your loads and add them up! Your lighting circuit will be considerably higher than mine if you don't have LED bulbs. I would say 10-12 amps higher.
Some discharge is OK if it happens occasionally and isn't deep like over 5-10 amps or so. It is the deep discharge/deep charge cycles that occur when you idle then take off that wear out these harnesses and melt connectors/gauges etc. Puny alternators that are 10-20+ amps behind at idle and then have to replenish that charge every time you stop/go will wear out the wiring.
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Re: HIgh output alternators
[Re: cjskotni]
#1588926
03/07/14 06:24 PM
03/07/14 06:24 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,120 Valencia, España
NachoRT74
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,120
Valencia, España
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Quote:
Quote:
I was allmost to pull the trigger for the TuffStuff alt, but emailed them asking for iddle specs and told me their alt put at iddle around 45 amps. That retracted me on pull the trigger.
I don't need 100 amps alt max output, I need/wish 55 amps at iddle.
I'm not sure who you talked to, but their own spec shows 60 amps at idle (800 engine RPM). I think that is a bit generous as it starts to discharge slightly when my loads approach 50-55 amps when the car is idling (750 RPM). These alternators drop off fast when you lower RPM's so if you aren't idling at 800 RPM in gear, then you are already going to be lower than the advertised idle output of any alternator.
Before this I tried the 78 amp squareback, and this one is perceptibly better. I'm not going to say way better but it doesn't discharge as deeply when those electric fans go on at idle. At idle, this one seems to put out around 8-10 more amps than the 78 amp unit. This 8-10 amps make a big difference when you want to hit another accessory like lights, A/C, etc. Now with the 100 amp unit, worst case is I discharge maybe 5-10 amps when idling with EVERYTHING on which never happens. I also converted to LED lighting just about everywhere which helps on the load. I don't get the wild right swinging needle anymore when I take off after idling.
Here is a picture of the little you can see of my alternator. It's buried under heater hoses and my A/C lines...
THAT'S what I did know to know!!!
and GREAT THANKS FOR THE PICS..
when I asked they didn't know to response the next question I did too, how do they looked like ? like lates 70s and 80s ( 78 amps ) alts which are wider and stator hidden by the housing or really they are like the ones our car should get, with stator visible between housing halves!!!
so THEY ARE correct look for our cars!!!
now... thinking again on pull the trigger someday in the future!!!
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: HIgh output alternators
[Re: floridian]
#1588929
03/11/14 03:02 PM
03/11/14 03:02 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526 North Carolina
cjskotni
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
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Quote:
Small update here:
Had my old alternator ( not the rebuilt on the car) tested. Puts out 55 amps total.. Alternator store was unable to spin it at low RPM to tell me what it puts out at idle..
Did have the car out the other night.. Really doesn't do to bad ( voltage wize) at night until I turn on the heater at idle..
Did look into Quality power Autos high charge at idle claim on there hipo alts.. There Stats showed idle speed of 2500 RPM?? What kind of shmoo is that?? I am going to call them and see if they can tell what kinda amp output at 800 rpms...
Alternators are commonly specified in alternator RPM which with a standard pulley, is 3x engine RPM. So 2400 alternator RPM is considered 'idle' which correlates to 800 engine RPM with a standard pulley.
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Re: HIgh output alternators
[Re: cjskotni]
#1588930
03/11/14 04:24 PM
03/11/14 04:24 PM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,574 Lakeland FL
floridian
OP
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Posts: 1,574
Lakeland FL
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Quote:
Quote:
Small update here:
Had my old alternator ( not the rebuilt on the car) tested. Puts out 55 amps total.. Alternator store was unable to spin it at low RPM to tell me what it puts out at idle..
Did have the car out the other night.. Really doesn't do to bad ( voltage wize) at night until I turn on the heater at idle..
Did look into Quality power Autos high charge at idle claim on there hipo alts.. There Stats showed idle speed of 2500 RPM?? What kind of shmoo is that?? I am going to call them and see if they can tell what kinda amp output at 800 rpms...
Alternators are commonly specified in alternator RPM which with a standard pulley, is 3x engine RPM. So 2400 alternator RPM is considered 'idle' which correlates to 800 engine RPM with a standard pulley.
thanks for explaining that.. Makes sense
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Re: HIgh output alternators
[Re: floridian]
#1588931
03/12/14 08:52 PM
03/12/14 08:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,564 Michigan
MarkZ
Worthy
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Worthy
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,564
Michigan
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I bought the 60amp Denso and associated brackets from Mancini when I went to Edelbrock heads. With the old factory setup it would do the same thing you're describing, but with the new Denso, even at only 60 amps total, the idle charging issues cleared right up. http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/de60ampal.html
1987 Fifth Avenue - 512/518/D60
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Re: HIgh output alternators
[Re: cjskotni]
#1588932
03/12/14 09:19 PM
03/12/14 09:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,474 So Cal
Sinitro
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,474
So Cal
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Quote:
Quote:
What about the Billet customs from Quality power auto.. 125 amps at idle?? Expensive but what do our cars need ( amps) at idle??
This is what I measured with clamp gauges on my 1973 Charger:
- engine ignition circuit 15 amps - electric choke 1 amp - Retro sound stereo (no external amp) < 1 amp - headlights 13 amps - brights 18 amps - electric fans 20 amps (you don't have) - A/C clutch 4 amps - HVAC blower 5-8 amps - interior/exterior/brake lighting (LED) 4-5amps
Pick your loads and add them up! Your lighting circuit will be considerably higher than mine if you don't have LED bulbs. I would say 10-12 amps higher.
Some discharge is OK if it happens occasionally and isn't deep like over 5-10 amps or so. It is the deep discharge/deep charge cycles that occur when you idle then take off that wear out these harnesses and melt connectors/gauges etc. Puny alternators that are 10-20+ amps behind at idle and then have to replenish that charge every time you stop/go will wear out the wiring.
The 20 amps for electric fans looks low.. Usually thats the draw per fan... Also they typically pull even more when Powered ON..
Just my $0.05...
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Re: HIgh output alternators
[Re: Sinitro]
#1588933
03/12/14 11:52 PM
03/12/14 11:52 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526 North Carolina
cjskotni
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
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quote]The 20 amps for electric fans looks low.. Usually thats the draw per fan... Also they typically pull even more when Powered ON.. Just my $0.05...
Manufacturer specs state 20 amp draw and this was confirmed with a professional set of clamp gauges. When the fans engage, it does have a momentary spike of around 40 amps but only for about a half second. This is common with any inductive load like a motor.
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