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Re: Let the Hemi swap begin [Re: RylisPro] #1577559
11/26/14 11:44 PM 11/26/14 11:44 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger Offline
master
72Swinger  Offline
master

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
Looks great Alex! Ive been spinning my wheels waiting on Milodon. So today I did some more polishing inside my intake and installed rear main seal on engine.

Mopar to the bone!!!
Re: Let the Hemi swap begin [Re: RylisPro] #1577560
11/26/14 11:54 PM 11/26/14 11:54 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 10,645
Houston, Tx
A
AlexP Offline OP
I Live Here
AlexP  Offline OP
I Live Here
A

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 10,645
Houston, Tx
The frames are the same. Your install should be identical.

I will say that everything is very easy to work on with this motor. Plugs are a no brainier, header bolts take some time and the timing cover is very modular.

My Build thread: Let the hemi swap begin!

1968 wanna be pro touring whatchamacallit with some fancy stuff and a new roof skin.
Re: Let the Hemi swap begin [Re: AlexP] #1577561
11/27/14 12:48 AM 11/27/14 12:48 AM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 25,050
Texas
GoodysGotaCuda Offline
5.7L Hemi, 6spd
GoodysGotaCuda  Offline
5.7L Hemi, 6spd

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 25,050
Texas
Quote:

I I know agree with Emil's idea of resheathing the harness, but I could easily remove the whole harness at a later date.




http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-2-x-25-feet-SP...803&vxp=mtr
Re: Let the Hemi swap begin [Re: AlexP] #1577562
11/27/14 01:14 AM 11/27/14 01:14 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,445
Missouri
68KillerBee Offline
master
68KillerBee  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,445
Missouri
There are about 8 holes in that picture...
Re: Let the Hemi swap begin [Re: 68KillerBee] #1577563
11/27/14 01:16 AM 11/27/14 01:16 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 10,645
Houston, Tx
A
AlexP Offline OP
I Live Here
AlexP  Offline OP
I Live Here
A

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 10,645
Houston, Tx
Quote:

There are about 8 holes in that picture...



Just the big rectangular one.

My Build thread: Let the hemi swap begin!

1968 wanna be pro touring whatchamacallit with some fancy stuff and a new roof skin.
Re: Let the Hemi swap begin [Re: AlexP] #1577564
11/27/14 10:12 PM 11/27/14 10:12 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,329
St. Louis, MO
mopardamo Offline
pro stock
mopardamo  Offline
pro stock

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,329
St. Louis, MO
Think that is an A/C car. If true I think it was a plate with hoses for the A/C. Not 100% on that though never had a B body. Maybe it rings a bell for you? I'm sure someone will chime in with facts.

Damon
Re: Let the Hemi swap begin [Re: mopardamo] #1577565
11/28/14 06:25 AM 11/28/14 06:25 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,445
Missouri
68KillerBee Offline
master
68KillerBee  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,445
Missouri
Quote:

Think that is an A/C car. If true I think it was a plate with hoses for the A/C. Not 100% on that though never had a B body. Maybe it rings a bell for you? I'm sure someone will chime in with facts.

Damon



That's what my dad said too. My 68 bee and his 68 gtx don't have that hole and don't have a/c.
Re: Let the Hemi swap begin [Re: 68KillerBee] #1577566
11/29/14 02:16 PM 11/29/14 02:16 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 553
Sac, CA, USA
N
ntstlgl1970 Offline
mopar
ntstlgl1970  Offline
mopar
N

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 553
Sac, CA, USA
Do any of you know the timing curve you are using on the gen 3 motors? I'm doing some research on one and I think the total should be in the 22 degree range? I know it's a lot less than a LA motor
Re: Let the Hemi swap begin [Re: ntstlgl1970] #1577567
11/29/14 02:32 PM 11/29/14 02:32 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 723
Houston Tx
Uhcoog1 Offline
super stock
Uhcoog1  Offline
super stock

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 723
Houston Tx
Quote:

Do any of you know the timing curve you are using on the gen 3 motors? I'm doing some research on one and I think the total should be in the 22 degree range? I know it's a lot less than a LA motor



20-22* is a good rule of thumb. Maybe Mike from OST will weigh in. He's the resident tuning expert for these motors.

My experience is slightly different: my built 5.7 had quite a bit more timing in it (AFTER peak torque- all the way up to 30+). That was with dome pistons, 03-08 82cc heads, and .075 quench. Peak torque was in the 22* range if I recall. That table was worked up on the dyno.

I'll find and post the factory timing tables when I find em in my photobucket.

-'02 Dodge Viper Ex-World Challenge racecar
-'73 Duster, 6.1 based 392 hilborn hemi, tko600, full floater rear 9", Hellwig custom bars, viper brakes, built for road course
Re: Let the Hemi swap begin [Re: Uhcoog1] #1577568
11/29/14 04:54 PM 11/29/14 04:54 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 723
Houston Tx
Uhcoog1 Offline
super stock
Uhcoog1  Offline
super stock

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 723
Houston Tx
Time to muddy the water a bit.

The factory hemi computer has 3(?) different timing tables. WOT & MBT are two of them. I'm posting them below. I believe WOT table is referenced and timing is pulled from that based on conditions, and MBT is the table that is a 'cap' - never to be exceeded.

DO NOT PUT THESE IN YOUR COMPUTER AND EXPECT YOUR MOTOR TO LIVE. Factory computer PULLS TIMING from the lower of the two tables based on current conditions.

Most tuners would recommend starting at ~18* all in and working your way up monitoring for knock and tuning for power. A lot of high end builds run best at 20-22* all in.

05-08 5.7 - WOT table:


05-08 5.7 - MBT table:


09+ 5.7 - WOT table (do not have MBT table):


6.1 WOT table:


6.1 MBT table:


Once again, DO NOT use any of these for a start up tune. I reduced the 6.1/5.7 to 18 all in (pulled 30+% across the board) and started on that. Then on the dyno I added 2 degrees at a time at each spot until power was not added, then backed down 2 degrees to the lowest timing for max power (MBT for my motor).

-'02 Dodge Viper Ex-World Challenge racecar
-'73 Duster, 6.1 based 392 hilborn hemi, tko600, full floater rear 9", Hellwig custom bars, viper brakes, built for road course
Re: Let the Hemi swap begin [Re: Uhcoog1] #1577569
11/29/14 05:58 PM 11/29/14 05:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,575
The Netherlands
BigBlockMopar Offline
master
BigBlockMopar  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,575
The Netherlands
Can you tell anything about the 'dip' in all of the timingcurves at roughly around 4000rpm in these timingmaps?

BigBlockMopar.com
Re: Let the Hemi swap begin [Re: BigBlockMopar] #1577570
11/29/14 06:14 PM 11/29/14 06:14 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 723
Houston Tx
Uhcoog1 Offline
super stock
Uhcoog1  Offline
super stock

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 723
Houston Tx
Quote:

Can you tell anything about the 'dip' in all of the timingcurves at roughly around 4000rpm in these timingmaps?



It's there on all of them and the dyno graphs show it as well.

There has been some speculation that the rpm that the dip occurs will change (or not be there at all) for different intake / cam combinations.

When tuning on the dyno I started with a flat curve and ended up with a small dip closer to 4800 as other areas wanted more timing.

Here is my old 5.7 with hilborn timing and dyno. DO NOT USE THIS TIMING CURVE.



*disclaimer: the above timing curve may blow up your motor. Don't use it.
** I checked the timing with a timing gun- it was 1-2 degrees retarded at 15-18 total timing.

Mustang chassis dyno:

-'02 Dodge Viper Ex-World Challenge racecar
-'73 Duster, 6.1 based 392 hilborn hemi, tko600, full floater rear 9", Hellwig custom bars, viper brakes, built for road course
Re: Let the Hemi swap begin [Re: Uhcoog1] #1577571
11/29/14 09:23 PM 11/29/14 09:23 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 553
Sac, CA, USA
N
ntstlgl1970 Offline
mopar
ntstlgl1970  Offline
mopar
N

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 553
Sac, CA, USA
Thanks! this helps a lot. Looks like I have a lot of reading to do...
Re: Let the Hemi swap begin [Re: ntstlgl1970] #1577572
12/15/14 11:00 PM 12/15/14 11:00 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 553
Sac, CA, USA
N
ntstlgl1970 Offline
mopar
ntstlgl1970  Offline
mopar
N

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 553
Sac, CA, USA
Do you have any pictures of the header clearance to the idler/pitman arms? just wondering if I can get away with the fast ratio arms with modifications to the header tubes (I know TTi says no)
Re: Let the Hemi swap begin [Re: ntstlgl1970] #1577573
12/15/14 11:47 PM 12/15/14 11:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger Offline
master
72Swinger  Offline
master

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
Heres a different catch can mount. Gets it outta the way IMO.

Mopar to the bone!!!
Re: Let the Hemi swap begin [Re: AlexP] #1577574
12/28/14 07:14 PM 12/28/14 07:14 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 553
Sac, CA, USA
N
ntstlgl1970 Offline
mopar
ntstlgl1970  Offline
mopar
N

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 553
Sac, CA, USA
Quote:

Some pictures of the Jeep SRT Oil filter adapter. The shield had to be shortened to avoid the K frame, so I trimmed it a little extra.



Do you have a part number for the oil filter adapter by chance?

I did find the part number for the adapter and related parts:

53013680AD 6.1L (SRT)Adapter
53021610AF 5.7L Adapter (I don't know what the difference between these two adapters is, but the 6.1L adapter is more expensive)

53021660AC Small O-Ring

53021661AA Large O-Ring

6102041AA M6X1.00X25.00 Adapter Bolts ( X3 )

Last edited by ntstlgl1970; 12/29/14 01:51 AM.
Re: Let the Hemi swap begin [Re: ntstlgl1970] #1577575
12/29/14 12:44 PM 12/29/14 12:44 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 10,645
Houston, Tx
A
AlexP Offline OP
I Live Here
AlexP  Offline OP
I Live Here
A

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 10,645
Houston, Tx
I used the 53013680AD adapter.

I do know that my adapter had an oil pressure sensor that I had to plug. It wouldn't have fit.

My Build thread: Let the hemi swap begin!

1968 wanna be pro touring whatchamacallit with some fancy stuff and a new roof skin.
Re: Let the Hemi swap begin [Re: AlexP] #1577576
01/02/15 04:53 PM 01/02/15 04:53 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 10,645
Houston, Tx
A
AlexP Offline OP
I Live Here
AlexP  Offline OP
I Live Here
A

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 10,645
Houston, Tx
slight update:

after working non stop on a project at work, I've finally got time to work on the car and order parts.

-I swapped my carter 4601 pump for an E85 compatible micro lift pump by Holley. It's a 7 psi, 32 gph pump that can pull 12" dry. My carter needed a regulator that I didn't want to install under the car to take it down to a lower pressure.

-Ordered a Nexus 7 table from amazon to run as my temp dash along with a registered version of tunerstudio and a Bluetooth GPS adapter.

-I'm getting a PS pump bracket from Emil and I've found a PS pump with a reservior that looks like it might work well. 2002 Camaro LS1 pump in GM Type 2.


-I need to order a battery box next and get some cable from a welding supply. I'm moving the battery to the trunk but I'm not messing with a master disconnect switch just yet. I'll run power to the fuel pumps directly at that point and a HD set of relays for them.

My Build thread: Let the hemi swap begin!

1968 wanna be pro touring whatchamacallit with some fancy stuff and a new roof skin.
Re: Let the Hemi swap begin [Re: AlexP] #1577577
01/03/15 02:45 AM 01/03/15 02:45 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,114
Irving, TX
feets Offline
Senior Management
feets  Offline
Senior Management

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,114
Irving, TX
Is it done yet?



We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: Let the Hemi swap begin [Re: Uhcoog1] #1577578
01/04/15 03:35 PM 01/04/15 03:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,248
Plymouth, MI
Blusmbl Offline
master
Blusmbl  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,248
Plymouth, MI
Quote:

Time to muddy the water a bit.

The factory hemi computer has 3(?) different timing tables. WOT & MBT are two of them. I'm posting them below. I believe WOT table is referenced and timing is pulled from that based on conditions, and MBT is the table that is a 'cap' - never to be exceeded.




The MBT table is the timing at which the engine makes maximum torque. This really needs to be mapped on a dyno with race fuel. Advancing it past that point doesn't gain you anything so that's why it appears as a "cap".
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