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Re: Let the Hemi swap begin
[Re: RylisPro]
#1577479
11/03/14 03:30 AM
11/03/14 03:30 AM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 10,645
Houston, Tx
AlexP
OP
I Live Here
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OP
I Live Here
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 10,645
Houston, Tx
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Quote:
Cool!
So 2008 5.7 stuff will work on a 6.4?
Good to know!
I'm a newb when it comes to Gen III stuff haha!
No, you've got to be careful about the break downs.
Here it is in a nutshell:
Early style
03-08 Truck 5.7
05-08 Car 5.7
06-09 Car 6.1
Late (Eagle and apache)
09+ Car 5.7
09+ Truck 5.7
10+ Car 6.4
10+ Truck 6.4
You can't swap the timing covers between early and late (not that I know..)
You need to center your build around the timing cover. If you want a 6.4 then you need to source all the accessories for that. The biggest degree of interchangeability is in the cylinder heads and intakes.
If I was going to put a stock motor in one, it would be a factory stock 6.4 with just a cam and lockout kit plus a 6.1 intake manifold.
If you're talking about an early 5.7/6.1 392 stroker, that's a different animal. You buy parts based on the block/timing cover.
I started with the 6.1 due to circumstance and luck, I had to build the whole thing up by each nut and bolt. I don't advise that for anyone, it's really not cost effective. I would have been farther ahead just buying a broken 5.7 early motor from a car and pulling all the odds and ends off of that.
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Re: Let the Hemi swap begin
[Re: AlexP]
#1577483
11/03/14 05:48 AM
11/03/14 05:48 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,943
Melbourne.....Oz-land
Moparmal
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,943
Melbourne.....Oz-land
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Quote:
Milodon Pan in place.
I tried the tin Milodon pan with the factory gasket..ended up with leaks - ended up combining the factory gasket with the milodon cork gasket and it sealed like Fort Knox....
This was after I had to drop the cross member to remove the pan... 
Check your pinion angle with those TTI mounts as well......
Just a heads up. 
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Re: Let the Hemi swap begin
[Re: AlexP]
#1577484
11/03/14 09:57 AM
11/03/14 09:57 AM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 256
USA
Consulier
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 256
USA
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Quote:
I'll give the benefit of the doubt because these headers are from 2007 and weren't used until now. I don't know what changes have been made to the jig. I will say that TTI does have amazing customer service and I wouldn't use any other header for this swap. I have no doubt that Dougs is lightyears behind TTI. I talked to them on the phone and I wasn't impressed.
My 2" are from 2012 and they hit everything. Called TTI, no changes, "they should clear the starter by 1/2"... not even close. Wouldn't clear the T Bars, hit a bunch of other stuff... junk.
Honestly, their customer service is nice on the phone, but offers to correct nothing. I'm pretty much fed up with them. The headers don't even come close to fitting, the motor mounts didn't even come close to fitting, why even sell the stuff? On top of that, why does everyone keep defending them?
As far as I'm concerned, for Gen 3 Hemi swaps, TTI and Milodon can fall off the face of the earth and we would be just fine.
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Re: Let the Hemi swap begin
[Re: Moparmal]
#1577485
11/03/14 10:57 AM
11/03/14 10:57 AM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 10,645
Houston, Tx
AlexP
OP
I Live Here
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OP
I Live Here
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 10,645
Houston, Tx
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Quote:
Quote:
The fact that gets me everytime is when someone says they want to save money by going carb on a motor like this.
Even if you have nice carb, the MSD ignition controller is still $800 and then you may or may not have to do anything with your fuel system.
That wasnt my reason...mine was appearance and that I couldnt face the EFI learning curve.. 
But you should be fair with your costings Alex.... I didnt have to swap out my fuel pump, fuel line, use a fuel accumulator or put on a return line...
But yes....its never going to be able to run the camshaft LSA you EFI guys can....which dictates how much duration I can get away with. 
I ran the carter pump, 1/2" stainless hardline feed and return line and regulator with my carb from the B motor.
I only needed the accumulator, GSL392 and my fittings.
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Re: Let the Hemi swap begin
[Re: Moparmal]
#1577486
11/03/14 10:59 AM
11/03/14 10:59 AM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 10,645
Houston, Tx
AlexP
OP
I Live Here
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OP
I Live Here
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 10,645
Houston, Tx
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Quote:
Quote:
Milodon Pan in place.
I tried the tin Milodon pan with the factory gasket..ended up with leaks - ended up combining the factory gasket with the milodon cork gasket and it sealed like Fort Knox....
This was after I had to drop the cross member to remove the pan...
Check your pinion angle with those TTI mounts as well......
Just a heads up.
I've sealed 3 pans the same way. Two of those times we even reused the same gasket. It never leaked. The idea of using those cork gaskets made me cringe. I used a few dabs of the Mopar brand RTV in the same spots on my pan, and I really don't expect to have any issues.
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Re: Let the Hemi swap begin
[Re: Consulier]
#1577487
11/03/14 11:37 AM
11/03/14 11:37 AM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,432
NorCal
RylisPro
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,432
NorCal
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Quote:
My 2" are from 2012 and they hit everything. Called TTI, no changes, "they should clear the starter by 1/2"... not even close. Wouldn't clear the T Bars, hit a bunch of other stuff... junk.
Honestly, their customer service is nice on the phone, but offers to correct nothing. I'm pretty much fed up with them. The headers don't even come close to fitting, the motor mounts didn't even come close to fitting, why even sell the stuff? On top of that, why does everyone keep defending them?
As far as I'm concerned, for Gen 3 Hemi swaps, TTI and Milodon can fall off the face of the earth and we would be just fine.
I am not defending TTI, I have never bought any of their stuff but I know they recently came out with a revised set of headers for A bodies with Borgeson boxes part# 61WP.
As far as headers not fitting, maybe it is a combination of header primary size, torsion bar size, body style and how more or less crappy your chassis was welded up 40 years ago? Other than TTI headers or Milodon for the pan what other options is there besides custom $,$$$.$$?
Thanks
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Re: Let the Hemi swap begin
[Re: RylisPro]
#1577488
11/03/14 12:29 PM
11/03/14 12:29 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
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Their mounts suck, and that in turn makes the headers fit like dog doo. Milodon gouged us Mopar guys pretty bad, and by the way my pickup tube is back ordered until the 17th. That should give them enough time to make one that fits.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: Let the Hemi swap begin
[Re: RylisPro]
#1577489
11/03/14 12:48 PM
11/03/14 12:48 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 723
Houston Tx
Uhcoog1
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 723
Houston Tx
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I have the 61WP headers in my car, and recommend them to those that want power steering with an a body. The fit is so tight you're going to need fitting (aka- Hammer).
You can run the 5.7 truck gasket with the milodon pan. The first time I installed it there was a leak - the gasket ribbing doesn't line up with the pan in the front corners. The second and third time a little mopar brand rtv solved the issue.
-'02 Dodge Viper Ex-World Challenge racecar
-'73 Duster, 6.1 based 392 hilborn hemi, tko600, full floater rear 9", Hellwig custom bars, viper brakes, built for road course
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Re: Let the Hemi swap begin
[Re: RylisPro]
#1577490
11/03/14 03:39 PM
11/03/14 03:39 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 256
USA
Consulier
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 256
USA
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Quote:
I am not defending TTI, I have never bought any of their stuff but I know they recently came out with a revised set of headers for A bodies with Borgeson boxes part# 61WP.
That is great if you run a 6.1. Called them, can you make a set for 6.4... nope, no plans to do that.
Can you weld on a 6.4 flange to a set of 1 3/4" 5.7 headers so I can possibly pick up some area where your 2" hit everything... nope.
Quote:
As far as headers not fitting, maybe it is a combination of header primary size, torsion bar size, body style and how more or less crappy your chassis was welded up 40 years ago? Other than TTI headers or Milodon for the pan what other options is there besides custom $,$$$.$$?
If a stock K member still bolts on without any problems, I don't think Chrysler build quality is an issue. When you put on exactly what they tell you for a starter and the tube still doesn't even come close to clearing, their build quality is the problem.
At this point for me, custom would have been cheaper. The amount of time I have into the trial and error fitting with Milodon and TTI is beyond ridiculous. Ended up with custom mounts, custom dented/massaged headers and a custom oil pickup. Gee, thanks so much for the well engineered and designed parts... not.
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Re: Let the Hemi swap begin
[Re: Consulier]
#1577491
11/03/14 04:07 PM
11/03/14 04:07 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 723
Houston Tx
Uhcoog1
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 723
Houston Tx
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Quote:
Quote:
I am not defending TTI, I have never bought any of their stuff but I know they recently came out with a revised set of headers for A bodies with Borgeson boxes part# 61WP.
That is great if you run a 6.1. Called them, can you make a set for 6.4... nope, no plans to do that.
Can you weld on a 6.4 flange to a set of 1 3/4" 5.7 headers so I can possibly pick up some area where your 2" hit everything... nope.
It sounds like it's all behind you now, but 6.1 headers work fine on a 6.4.
Edit to add: flanges and ports mount up fine. Don't know block and mounts, though.
Last edited by uhcoog1; 11/03/14 04:20 PM.
-'02 Dodge Viper Ex-World Challenge racecar
-'73 Duster, 6.1 based 392 hilborn hemi, tko600, full floater rear 9", Hellwig custom bars, viper brakes, built for road course
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Re: Let the Hemi swap begin
[Re: feets]
#1577495
11/04/14 09:34 AM
11/04/14 09:34 AM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 723
Houston Tx
Uhcoog1
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 723
Houston Tx
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I did not have a problem in the ~1500 miles I ran the factory box with the Hemi pump. Quite a few guys do it.
The 'on paper' concern has been discussed. However I do not recall hearing of anyone who had an issue with it. Maybe someone will chime in?
Emil runs a lower pressure pump from a different application. Should be a good alternative.
-'02 Dodge Viper Ex-World Challenge racecar
-'73 Duster, 6.1 based 392 hilborn hemi, tko600, full floater rear 9", Hellwig custom bars, viper brakes, built for road course
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Re: Let the Hemi swap begin
[Re: Uhcoog1]
#1577496
11/04/14 10:55 AM
11/04/14 10:55 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,114
Irving, TX
feets
Senior Management
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Senior Management
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,114
Irving, TX
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Can you access the regulator in the new pumps and shim it down like the older units?
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
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Re: Let the Hemi swap begin
[Re: Uhcoog1]
#1577497
11/04/14 11:07 AM
11/04/14 11:07 AM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 256
USA
Consulier
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 256
USA
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Quote:
I did not have a problem in the ~1500 miles I ran the factory box with the Hemi pump. Quite a few guys do it.
The 'on paper' concern has been discussed. However I do not recall hearing of anyone who had an issue with it. Maybe someone will chime in?
Emil runs a lower pressure pump from a different application. Should be a good alternative.
Keisler's Cuda had a 6.1 pump with a Firm Feel box. It spit out at least 2 pumps and at least 1 box started leaking. He probably put 10k+ miles on it, so it sounds like it might take some time to see the problems
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Re: Let the Hemi swap begin
[Re: Consulier]
#1577498
11/04/14 11:28 AM
11/04/14 11:28 AM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 723
Houston Tx
Uhcoog1
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 723
Houston Tx
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I've killed a pump. Added a cooler and larger pulley, haven't killed another.
I did have the input shaft seal leak on the original box. Replaced it and I was GTG. Yes- limited to 1500 miles.
-'02 Dodge Viper Ex-World Challenge racecar
-'73 Duster, 6.1 based 392 hilborn hemi, tko600, full floater rear 9", Hellwig custom bars, viper brakes, built for road course
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